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...despite the win over Rangers at the weekend I think Celtic are really struggling as a force[;)]
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It was offers like 4 times the odds one winner in a L15 which shut them down in the end.
One last comment on Ivan. He was an expert politician and gave expert political views at the time of the 2007 election on TV yet he made huge losses on political bets he layed on that election.
Whats an "Expert Politician"? Not being smart or having a go but plenty of people can call themselves experts and the reality could be far from the truth. Honestly very few politicians are "Expert" at anything even their own job.
He was a very good public speaker, almost Fine Gaels version of Bertie in many ways.
He was a very good public speaker, almost Fine Gaels version of Bertie in many ways.
Cully Joined: 10 Feb 04Replies: 6 06 Jan 11 20:28
One last comment on Ivan. He was an expert politician and gave expert political views at the time of the 2007 election on TV yet he made huge losses on political bets he layed on that election.
not so sure.
he was very bullish, infact he stated that .."no matter what happens in this election, Pat Rabbitte will be tainaste"
One last comment on Ivan. He was an expert politician and gave expert political views at the time of the 2007 election on TV yet he made huge losses on political bets he layed on that election.
not so sure.
he was very bullish, infact he stated that .."no matter what happens in this election, Pat Rabbitte will be tainaste"
Paddies and Spoils are rubbing their hands IMO. They both stand to benefit from a reduction in shops in the country, although PP can wait longer as they have a more established and hugely profitable online operation and of course a UK retail operation that benefits from the machines. I imagine the next set of PP results will include the line somewhere; "in Ireland retail margins improved due to reduced competition, although trading remains tough."
Interesting that the Post advert didn't include the two UK shops. Anyone know why?
Interesting that the Post advert didn't include the two UK shops. Anyone know why?
To the last poster, the reason that they werent advertised i would say is that the there are different editions in Ireland and Britain,so the advertising section in the Irish part is only seen by people over here and i can assume that vice versa, the English edition carries ads for the British market.There is every possibility that those shops are being advertised in the English edition.
On Ivan Yates himself,i would rate him as a gentleman,and a very clever one as well.I feel sorry for him but i would be in no doubt that he will be more than alright,a person as talented as this is not going to fall by the wayside.Ivan has paid a heavy price for some naive behaviour,but the old adage that a lesson bought is better than a lesson thought will be particularly applicable in this instance.Ivan will be back,most propably not as a bookmaker,but he wont be going to ground like some people will hope.
On Ivan Yates himself,i would rate him as a gentleman,and a very clever one as well.I feel sorry for him but i would be in no doubt that he will be more than alright,a person as talented as this is not going to fall by the wayside.Ivan has paid a heavy price for some naive behaviour,but the old adage that a lesson bought is better than a lesson thought will be particularly applicable in this instance.Ivan will be back,most propably not as a bookmaker,but he wont be going to ground like some people will hope.
The chap that does the Punter's Platform every Saturday for the Star ripped into Ivan yesterday, decent enough read.
if you could post the gist of it, Oliver, I'd appreciate it
I will say this about celtic bookmakers- their shops were badly laid out and done on the cheap-the one i drogheda was like a labyrinth!!!
Ivan Yates....Articulate,intelligent and honourable any chance he would go back into politics,could be the man to save us.
John O Brien.
Round our way the word quickly spread that there was a 'bookie' in town who was willing to take bets on a tax-free basis. In 1980s Ireland this was very big news indeed. The premises wasn't in the most conspicuous location, off a lane, off the main street, but it didn't matter, enough found their way. At the time betting tax was a mind-boggling 20 per cent. Even for those who bet in fivers or tenners, it was an alluring concession.
A little more than 25 years on, there's no greater measure of the revolution the industry has undergone. Bookies who felt secure enough that they could bear the punitive tax burdens on behalf of their punters in order to gain a vital edge complain nowadays that the current rate of one per cent is effectively killing their business. The bookie is under attack from all fronts now. The old notions about him never losing have been shredded.
There is an echo of the football industry at work here. Footballers, once treated little better than slaves, now hold the whip hand and have the cars and homes to prove it. The wheel has turned in the betting industry too. The odds were once so heavily stacked against the customer that only the most careless or unfortunate bookie found trouble. Now technology and the easy spread of information have evened the pitch, maybe even tipped the balance in favour of the punter.
As one bookie says: "Punters are more astute these days. The shops are plagued by wise guys." Ivan Yates made the same point when he sent a memo to his Celtic Bookmakers' staff in 2008 warning them to beware of "sharks". And not just the shops. On RTE's Liveline last year, Paddy Power made the revealing admission that winning customers were liable to have their telephone or online accounts closed. Bookmakers are desperate for business, of course, but not to the detriment of their profits.
In the end, the wise guys did for Yates and his 47 shops, at least partially anyway. In being so aggressive in expanding his mini-empire during the boom years, Yates needed to be equally aggressive in finding means to fill new shops. So he offered concessions that outstripped his rivals: juicy bonuses on Lucky 15s and other multiple bets beloved of the smaller punters, guaranteed morning and board prices that helped attract the "each-way thieves" he was so wary of, eating into profit margins already growing alarmingly thin.
"You can get isolated," says one industry insider. "You become vulnerable. The big firms get away with it because they can spread the risk around and they spend more money on surveillance. They make it hard to win. Yates knew he was being targeted. Like, if you want to take on a casino you don't go to Caesar's Palace because you know they have the best security. Instead you go to Binion's or some other small place downtown."
The publicity and sympathy showered on Yates last week was probably excessive. The leaked memo in 2008 perfectly exposed how ruthless the business can be. Beware the clued-in punter who might win, Yates warned, but encourage those who chase losses or are regular losers. In other words, the weak and the vulnerable. Yet, for a business to be sustainable, that is how it must be. If bookmaking becomes too hazardous an enterprise, then the system is in danger of breakdown.
Yates' mistakes were easily identified. Expanding rapidly in favourable times while failing to engage with the reality that, for most major operators, offices are mere shop windows for more reliable telephone and online wings. Yates was slow in rolling out a phone service and either unable or unwilling to grapple with online technology. Yet the former government minister isn't a fool. That he was simply hoping to build a healthy business with an attractive resale value is a possible scenario. The decline he first noticed in 2007 needn't have dissuaded him from that ambition.
"I suppose it seemed a good idea in 2006 and early 2007 when the country was awash with cash," says Sharon Byrne, chair of the Irish Bookmakers' Association. "But if you expand so quickly, you need to have an online presence and that weakened him considerably. And for a lot of that period he didn't have a telecentre. So he had no 24-hour outlet for his product. For someone that ambitious that isn't good enough in this day and age."
For Byrne, who closed one of her 12 shops last year, the loss of Celtic Bookmakers is a result of "natural market settlement." By 2008, she says, the total number of betting shops in the country had risen to 1,250 and, even in a favourable economic climate, the market couldn't sustain such a figure. In the past two years 150 shops have been forced into closure, though that figure must be updated to include Yates' 47 and the 20 shut by William Hill in December.
In one sense Yates' ambition wasn't all that outlandish. Paying €5m for 10 shops in 2006, with high rents attached, seems questionable in hindsight, but what of Ladbrokes' wisdom in paying €160m for Barney Eastwood's 54 shops in 2008? Or Paddy Power's decision to buy eight Belfast shops soon after at €3m a pop? Think of **** which has expanded to an eye-popping 138 shops, four alone in both Navan and Tralee. How, you wonder, can the market bear such concentration?
Among bookmakers there is no appetite for dancing on Yates' grave, because they know they could be next. Ask how optimistic they are for the future and the reply comes through gritted teeth. "I'm not pessimistic," says David Tully, whose family own 35 shops. "Put it this way, will we still be here in five years? I think so anyway." Simple survival is the name of the game now. Keeping your head above water.
For independents, the demise of Yates has certain value. There was surprise and disappointment that Yates didn't mention the one per- cent levy during his many interviews last week because, for the IBA, this is their biggest single grievance. Last year, in talks with the government Byrne singled out one case of a bookmaker who recorded a loss of €19,000 yet still had to pay duty of €320,000. Yates' problems will reinforce their sense of victimhood.
"At his height Ivan was turning over €183m," says Jimmy Finlay of Bambury Bookmakers. "So he was generating €1.83m in betting duty. Even now when his turnover dipped to €90m, he's still paying nearly €1m. He lost €1.3m last year yet still had to pay €1m in duty. How is this fair? Other retail sectors don't have to bear these costs. Are chemists asked to pay into hospitals for example? Yet their profit margins are greater than ours."
In a climate where every sector is feeling the squeeze, the war over the levy gets more serious. Before the budget, the Government came under pressure from Horse Racing Ireland and other sources to increase betting tax, but to the relief of the bookmakers, they resisted the urge. "The HRI are barking up the wrong tree," says Finlay. "There's no further meat left on our bones."
The problem is clear. While the onset of the internet and betting exchanges have revolutionised the betting industry, Irish gambling legislation remains rooted in the dark ages.
This point is conceded by the Government which published a paper last month setting out a blueprint on how the industry might be regulated in the future. The problem, though, is that Dermot Ahern's document is high on aspiration, short on clear strategy.
It is not just the smaller bookmakers who are desperate for action. HRI estimates annual telephone and online turnover at €1.5bn, mostly channelled through offshore operations, and claims the industry is in mortal danger if it isn't guaranteed a fair slice of that cake.
The IBA advocates a licensing system where every strand of the industry -- shops, online, betting exchanges -- would have to pay for the right to trade but, as equitable as it sounds, how it would work in practice isn't clear.
Still Ahern, or his successor in Justice, must find a path through the minefield. If not, more high-profile victims will follow. If Yates' problem was that he was unable to move with the times, the stark lesson for the industry is that it must not follow suit.
Round our way the word quickly spread that there was a 'bookie' in town who was willing to take bets on a tax-free basis. In 1980s Ireland this was very big news indeed. The premises wasn't in the most conspicuous location, off a lane, off the main street, but it didn't matter, enough found their way. At the time betting tax was a mind-boggling 20 per cent. Even for those who bet in fivers or tenners, it was an alluring concession.
A little more than 25 years on, there's no greater measure of the revolution the industry has undergone. Bookies who felt secure enough that they could bear the punitive tax burdens on behalf of their punters in order to gain a vital edge complain nowadays that the current rate of one per cent is effectively killing their business. The bookie is under attack from all fronts now. The old notions about him never losing have been shredded.
There is an echo of the football industry at work here. Footballers, once treated little better than slaves, now hold the whip hand and have the cars and homes to prove it. The wheel has turned in the betting industry too. The odds were once so heavily stacked against the customer that only the most careless or unfortunate bookie found trouble. Now technology and the easy spread of information have evened the pitch, maybe even tipped the balance in favour of the punter.
As one bookie says: "Punters are more astute these days. The shops are plagued by wise guys." Ivan Yates made the same point when he sent a memo to his Celtic Bookmakers' staff in 2008 warning them to beware of "sharks". And not just the shops. On RTE's Liveline last year, Paddy Power made the revealing admission that winning customers were liable to have their telephone or online accounts closed. Bookmakers are desperate for business, of course, but not to the detriment of their profits.
In the end, the wise guys did for Yates and his 47 shops, at least partially anyway. In being so aggressive in expanding his mini-empire during the boom years, Yates needed to be equally aggressive in finding means to fill new shops. So he offered concessions that outstripped his rivals: juicy bonuses on Lucky 15s and other multiple bets beloved of the smaller punters, guaranteed morning and board prices that helped attract the "each-way thieves" he was so wary of, eating into profit margins already growing alarmingly thin.
"You can get isolated," says one industry insider. "You become vulnerable. The big firms get away with it because they can spread the risk around and they spend more money on surveillance. They make it hard to win. Yates knew he was being targeted. Like, if you want to take on a casino you don't go to Caesar's Palace because you know they have the best security. Instead you go to Binion's or some other small place downtown."
The publicity and sympathy showered on Yates last week was probably excessive. The leaked memo in 2008 perfectly exposed how ruthless the business can be. Beware the clued-in punter who might win, Yates warned, but encourage those who chase losses or are regular losers. In other words, the weak and the vulnerable. Yet, for a business to be sustainable, that is how it must be. If bookmaking becomes too hazardous an enterprise, then the system is in danger of breakdown.
Yates' mistakes were easily identified. Expanding rapidly in favourable times while failing to engage with the reality that, for most major operators, offices are mere shop windows for more reliable telephone and online wings. Yates was slow in rolling out a phone service and either unable or unwilling to grapple with online technology. Yet the former government minister isn't a fool. That he was simply hoping to build a healthy business with an attractive resale value is a possible scenario. The decline he first noticed in 2007 needn't have dissuaded him from that ambition.
"I suppose it seemed a good idea in 2006 and early 2007 when the country was awash with cash," says Sharon Byrne, chair of the Irish Bookmakers' Association. "But if you expand so quickly, you need to have an online presence and that weakened him considerably. And for a lot of that period he didn't have a telecentre. So he had no 24-hour outlet for his product. For someone that ambitious that isn't good enough in this day and age."
For Byrne, who closed one of her 12 shops last year, the loss of Celtic Bookmakers is a result of "natural market settlement." By 2008, she says, the total number of betting shops in the country had risen to 1,250 and, even in a favourable economic climate, the market couldn't sustain such a figure. In the past two years 150 shops have been forced into closure, though that figure must be updated to include Yates' 47 and the 20 shut by William Hill in December.
In one sense Yates' ambition wasn't all that outlandish. Paying €5m for 10 shops in 2006, with high rents attached, seems questionable in hindsight, but what of Ladbrokes' wisdom in paying €160m for Barney Eastwood's 54 shops in 2008? Or Paddy Power's decision to buy eight Belfast shops soon after at €3m a pop? Think of **** which has expanded to an eye-popping 138 shops, four alone in both Navan and Tralee. How, you wonder, can the market bear such concentration?
Among bookmakers there is no appetite for dancing on Yates' grave, because they know they could be next. Ask how optimistic they are for the future and the reply comes through gritted teeth. "I'm not pessimistic," says David Tully, whose family own 35 shops. "Put it this way, will we still be here in five years? I think so anyway." Simple survival is the name of the game now. Keeping your head above water.
For independents, the demise of Yates has certain value. There was surprise and disappointment that Yates didn't mention the one per- cent levy during his many interviews last week because, for the IBA, this is their biggest single grievance. Last year, in talks with the government Byrne singled out one case of a bookmaker who recorded a loss of €19,000 yet still had to pay duty of €320,000. Yates' problems will reinforce their sense of victimhood.
"At his height Ivan was turning over €183m," says Jimmy Finlay of Bambury Bookmakers. "So he was generating €1.83m in betting duty. Even now when his turnover dipped to €90m, he's still paying nearly €1m. He lost €1.3m last year yet still had to pay €1m in duty. How is this fair? Other retail sectors don't have to bear these costs. Are chemists asked to pay into hospitals for example? Yet their profit margins are greater than ours."
In a climate where every sector is feeling the squeeze, the war over the levy gets more serious. Before the budget, the Government came under pressure from Horse Racing Ireland and other sources to increase betting tax, but to the relief of the bookmakers, they resisted the urge. "The HRI are barking up the wrong tree," says Finlay. "There's no further meat left on our bones."
The problem is clear. While the onset of the internet and betting exchanges have revolutionised the betting industry, Irish gambling legislation remains rooted in the dark ages.
This point is conceded by the Government which published a paper last month setting out a blueprint on how the industry might be regulated in the future. The problem, though, is that Dermot Ahern's document is high on aspiration, short on clear strategy.
It is not just the smaller bookmakers who are desperate for action. HRI estimates annual telephone and online turnover at €1.5bn, mostly channelled through offshore operations, and claims the industry is in mortal danger if it isn't guaranteed a fair slice of that cake.
The IBA advocates a licensing system where every strand of the industry -- shops, online, betting exchanges -- would have to pay for the right to trade but, as equitable as it sounds, how it would work in practice isn't clear.
Still Ahern, or his successor in Justice, must find a path through the minefield. If not, more high-profile victims will follow. If Yates' problem was that he was unable to move with the times, the stark lesson for the industry is that it must not follow suit.
The article was great until the end when it there is mnetion that Dermopt Ahern might be doing some work on it.
As the bould Ray Burke sais "He is in his fcuk"
As the bould Ray Burke sais "He is in his fcuk"
I see the Racing Post advertisements described the Celtic business "as a going concern". To my mind, that implied that punters would still be paid. Experience says otherwise ...
I had a hundred euro in a telephone account when the telebetting division was closed at the end of November. Instead of refunding this to my Visa card, Celtic sent me an AIB cheque. Due to weather conditions, I couldn't get to the bank before it closed for Christmas. Having had a tip-off about forthcoming events over the holiday period, I deposited my cheque in my own bank last Tuesday, probably around the time that the media broke the story. I've just checked my account online and find that it has been debited for 100 euro plus 10 euro for "unpaid items".
Will all the other creditors be fined an extra 10% for asking to be paid?
So much for "going concern"!
If the bank posts the cheque back to me, perhaps I'll be able to cash it in a Celtic shop or send it straight to the receiver.
I had a hundred euro in a telephone account when the telebetting division was closed at the end of November. Instead of refunding this to my Visa card, Celtic sent me an AIB cheque. Due to weather conditions, I couldn't get to the bank before it closed for Christmas. Having had a tip-off about forthcoming events over the holiday period, I deposited my cheque in my own bank last Tuesday, probably around the time that the media broke the story. I've just checked my account online and find that it has been debited for 100 euro plus 10 euro for "unpaid items".
Will all the other creditors be fined an extra 10% for asking to be paid?
So much for "going concern"!
If the bank posts the cheque back to me, perhaps I'll be able to cash it in a Celtic shop or send it straight to the receiver.
I am shocked at that Monksfield.
I agree with you that my intitial thoughts were that no one would be paid. But when I thought about it I realised that if they do that then the business has no worth as if a BOOKIE does not have honour he/she has nothing.
I'd say you just got caught up in the intial storm. You are sure to be paid if you take the cheque into a shop and I'd advise you as well to bring in the cover letter with the cheque or your last statement.
I guess everyone should have seen this coming whem the phone betting went in November.
I agree with you that my intitial thoughts were that no one would be paid. But when I thought about it I realised that if they do that then the business has no worth as if a BOOKIE does not have honour he/she has nothing.
I'd say you just got caught up in the intial storm. You are sure to be paid if you take the cheque into a shop and I'd advise you as well to bring in the cover letter with the cheque or your last statement.
I guess everyone should have seen this coming whem the phone betting went in November.
They certainly said outstanding bets will be honoured.
Hopefully it's just a glitch, Monk.
There's a lot of media bull in that aticle, Anaglogs. The idea that Celtic collapsed because 'the balance has tipped in favour of punters' is a load of bollix. Yates said the single biggest problem was that punters no longer have any discretionary disposable income. That's closer to the truth.
Hopefully it's just a glitch, Monk.
There's a lot of media bull in that aticle, Anaglogs. The idea that Celtic collapsed because 'the balance has tipped in favour of punters' is a load of bollix. Yates said the single biggest problem was that punters no longer have any discretionary disposable income. That's closer to the truth.
Celtic took no one on anyway except at Cheltenham where to be fair they were betting as if there was no tomorrow so the above article does not apply to them.
As Blackwater said anyway it is only a load of tripe anyway written by a gom that should (and does) know better
As Blackwater said anyway it is only a load of tripe anyway written by a gom that should (and does) know better
Blackwater,
Laying overbroke [i.e. 4x the odds on one L15 winner] will also hit your pocket hard.
Ivan has blamed a factor beyond his control; however, his bonus pricing; AND his disastrous expansion deals; both were within his powers...and also played big roles in the pincer movement his business faced...
Laying overbroke [i.e. 4x the odds on one L15 winner] will also hit your pocket hard.
Ivan has blamed a factor beyond his control; however, his bonus pricing; AND his disastrous expansion deals; both were within his powers...and also played big roles in the pincer movement his business faced...
Their early days of betting(mostly in-running) to other firms Aertel pages for golf and RP priceboxes must have fooked them royally also.
ivan was too naive in this cut throat game. couldn't or wouldn't adapt.
I've never had a cheque bounced before. Is the 10 euro fee a charge for posting the dud cheque back to me? If so, it should have arrived back by now. Or do I still have to incur the expense of travelling to the branch to ask for the cheque so that I can bring it to a Celtic shop? I've e-mailed the liquidator, but don't expect that to bring me any joy.
just go to your bank branch and demand the cheque back - then bring it to shop asap - remember aib pulled the plug they were owed chunks so how would he have any money in his aib account it was there money anyway
i honestly dont know how they are still operating - what about if someone hits them with an acca for six figures good look getting that
i honestly dont know how they are still operating - what about if someone hits them with an acca for six figures good look getting that
Fook me monks, I have had a few cheques bounce on me. They post them back with a note to refer. Maybe I am too persuasive demanding cheques from creditors who just want to see the back of me
Bring the cheque and evidence of non crediting your account to the shop asap.
Bring the cheque and evidence of non crediting your account to the shop asap.
How long before Betpack have their names above all the indos? Or will that ever even happen? They are basically the one bookie now anyways. You can place a bet in The Track or whatever and collect your winnings in Bamburys or any other Betpack member......
My favourite Celtic special back in the day was that they guaranteed the best price on football singles.
My favourite Celtic special back in the day was that they guaranteed the best price on football singles.
my local bruces are in arrears with their rent,a lot of their shops
are probably in the same situation.
are probably in the same situation.
it is a lovely shop and always seemed to be doing well..im surprised really..
Betpack!!!!!
Just been told in Tullys that my bet on the 2nd fav was a loser in a race that was won by the 7/2 jt fav.
"why?"
"Because that race was won by the jt fav"
"what horse was I on then?"
"it doesn't matter because the 2nd fav didn't win - the jt fav did"
Phone call to Head Office confirms and I am told "If I don't like it, to bring it further"
Little wonder shops are closing down.
Poor Chris O'Keefe would have loved that one.
Just been told in Tullys that my bet on the 2nd fav was a loser in a race that was won by the 7/2 jt fav.
"why?"
"Because that race was won by the jt fav"
"what horse was I on then?"
"it doesn't matter because the 2nd fav didn't win - the jt fav did"
Phone call to Head Office confirms and I am told "If I don't like it, to bring it further"
Little wonder shops are closing down.
Poor Chris O'Keefe would have loved that one.
what do u think they should do?its not an easy one?..if there were 4 co favs and urs came second to one of them?ud have 4 running for you if u get what im saying?
I'm assuming you're not taking the ....
i would have thought most people in a betting shop(certainly behind the counter and most definitely at Head Office)would know that your stake is divided by the number of joint or co -favs there are in the race.
In my case with 2 jt favs, your €20 win becomes €10@7/2-returns €45
In your example (co-favs of 4)-becomes €5@7/2
Exactly the same as happens with dead-heats(assuming they don't pay in full as a concession)
That their @rseholes at Head Office don't know thi,s is beyond belief.
i would have thought most people in a betting shop(certainly behind the counter and most definitely at Head Office)would know that your stake is divided by the number of joint or co -favs there are in the race.
In my case with 2 jt favs, your €20 win becomes €10@7/2-returns €45
In your example (co-favs of 4)-becomes €5@7/2
Exactly the same as happens with dead-heats(assuming they don't pay in full as a concession)
That their @rseholes at Head Office don't know thi,s is beyond belief.
thought they all stopped taking bets on unnamed 2nd favs long ago
No,and no logical reason why they shouldn't take them.
jeez Kavvie that is poor from you not to know that one.
In a race where there are 7/2 joint or co favourites any bookie would be glad to lay any unnamed horse no matter what is on the slip.
There are rules for all those eventualities.
As for Ching most shops state no each way on second favourites for the very reason you are referring to
In a race where there are 7/2 joint or co favourites any bookie would be glad to lay any unnamed horse no matter what is on the slip.
There are rules for all those eventualities.
As for Ching most shops state no each way on second favourites for the very reason you are referring to
kavvie 12 Jan 11 14:25
what do u think they should do?its not an easy one?..if there were 4 co favs and urs came second to one of them?ud have 4 running for you if u get what im saying?
oh dear
what do u think they should do?its not an easy one?..if there were 4 co favs and urs came second to one of them?ud have 4 running for you if u get what im saying?
oh dear
The bank will send back the bounced cheque,normal charge is 4.75!
sorry i obviously didnt understand the context!of course it should be payed as a percentage as stated above.a friend of mine yesterday had a ton ew on a horse in laddies and if the fav won u get money back...fav won,his hosre was unplaced.i thought he should have got a ton back?..they said it was on win bets only?..he queried it as the win part of the bet was a "win"bet?..he didnt get a penny..
If the fav wins you get your money back on your win part of your bet IF your selection finishes 2nd to the fav(and obv you'd get your place money as well) - otherwise they'd be returning all losing stakes in the race AND paying out on a winning fav - not likely from any bookie let alone Sadcrooks.
And if as for the plank in the shop saying it's only for win bets, tell your mate to tell him there's a job going in Tully's Head Office with his name on it.
Has everyone gone mad?
And if as for the plank in the shop saying it's only for win bets, tell your mate to tell him there's a job going in Tully's Head Office with his name on it.
Has everyone gone mad?
I've had the same with laddies, doesn;t cover the win part on each way bets, literally they'll only apply the concession to win only bets. Haven't bothered checking the rules but that's what they state.
Harry, YOU have to get paid something. OBJECT to their next renewal of licence if necessary.
head offices are full of tools who don't even know the basics. disgraceful.
Basically guys this is trying to copy Paddies but trying to pull a stroke Boils style.
Bad an all as Paddies are at least they will refund bets on all horses that finish second (singles only) no matter what type of bet (ew or win)
Bad an all as Paddies are at least they will refund bets on all horses that finish second (singles only) no matter what type of bet (ew or win)
My Celtic cheque arrived back in this morning's post - eight days after I deposited it. So I brought it to a Celtic shop. Sign on the door said `Business as usual - Celtic Bookmakers (in receivership)' or something like that. Sign on the wall inside said `Large winnings will be paid by cheque'. I almost laughed out loud when I saw that one.
The two ladies behind the counter looked at each other sheepishly when I asked them to cash my cheque. One said `We're working for the receiver now' then picked up the phone, probably to the receiver, and took down the following on the back of a betting slip and handed it to me - send `name, addres [sic] and cheque to Joe Walsh, Hughes/Blake, Joyce House, 22/33 Hollow [sic] street, Dublin 2.' I asked if Mr Walsh would send me out another cheque which would also bounce, but she mentioned `bank draft'.
I think I'd prefer to visit Mr Walsh in person next time I'm in Holles Street. My e-mail to Hughes/Blake has not been answered.
The two ladies behind the counter looked at each other sheepishly when I asked them to cash my cheque. One said `We're working for the receiver now' then picked up the phone, probably to the receiver, and took down the following on the back of a betting slip and handed it to me - send `name, addres [sic] and cheque to Joe Walsh, Hughes/Blake, Joyce House, 22/33 Hollow [sic] street, Dublin 2.' I asked if Mr Walsh would send me out another cheque which would also bounce, but she mentioned `bank draft'.
I think I'd prefer to visit Mr Walsh in person next time I'm in Holles Street. My e-mail to Hughes/Blake has not been answered.
Object to the renewal of their license, I think it would be somewhat laughable.
Its a money back special set to their rules and their rules only. If it says refunds apply to win singles only then its only win singles only.
Its a money back special set to their rules and their rules only. If it says refunds apply to win singles only then its only win singles only.
Harry31, as far as I know you're the first person on here to mention the very sadly departed Chris, he will be greatly missed. RIP.
Sounds like Ireland really needs an IBAS equivalent and the now is surely the time to press for one, with a new set of gambling laws being drawn up. Have a word with your local likely TD in the forthcoming election campaign and you may even get one on the statute book, which is more than we have in the UK.
Sounds like Ireland really needs an IBAS equivalent and the now is surely the time to press for one, with a new set of gambling laws being drawn up. Have a word with your local likely TD in the forthcoming election campaign and you may even get one on the statute book, which is more than we have in the UK.
Monksfield, you know it will cost you to cash the draft? 
Bruces have sold sum of their shops in the midlands this week according to their staff
The Celtic shop I was in today also had a sign saying that disputes would be referred to IBAS - does IBAS deal with bounced cheques?
Jeez Monksfield I though that was a bit weak from you. I would not have left the shop without my 100. This is cash that is going to you and it is due to you for some time. This is not a disputed bet or a bill for betting slips. This is cash and is as good as a winninf docket.
Take no nonsense off the birds in the shop and get in again tomorrow and roar the house down.
You are wasting your time posting it to an accountany firm FFS.
Why don't you go in and have €100 on a non runner and pay with the cheque. Get the bird to ring Ivan and I am sure he will tell them put it through.
To be fair to him he is honorable and he would not not want to see a punter/customer diddled like that.
Take no nonsense off the birds in the shop and get in again tomorrow and roar the house down.
You are wasting your time posting it to an accountany firm FFS.
Why don't you go in and have €100 on a non runner and pay with the cheque. Get the bird to ring Ivan and I am sure he will tell them put it through.
To be fair to him he is honorable and he would not not want to see a punter/customer diddled like that.
How the hell can they have a sign on the door saying business as usual as they have on their shop in Waterford and not be able to honour a 100euro cheque. If its business as usual you should be able to withdraw your ton with your a/c card in the shop as was the case in the past
chicken feed if u knew what they are screwing me crooks
Anyone with any antepost will have som sweat if what Penhead is saying is right and based on Monksfield's experience (my own view on that is that it was just incompetence of the birds which I referred to earlier in the thread)
Judging by the article in yesterday's Racing Post, if Forpadytheplasterer wins tomorrow, it will be the end of any sort of business for this firm.
I just got an e-mail from another firm announcing a change in terms and conditions, to include: "We hold all active customer balances in a separate trust account which would not, in the event of insolvency, form part of our assets."
I hope the new and long-promised Online Betting Bill will require all firms licensed under the new legislation to have and abide by a similar condition - including Celtic under whoever might buy it.
I just got an e-mail from another firm announcing a change in terms and conditions, to include: "We hold all active customer balances in a separate trust account which would not, in the event of insolvency, form part of our assets."
I hope the new and long-promised Online Betting Bill will require all firms licensed under the new legislation to have and abide by a similar condition - including Celtic under whoever might buy it.
Looks like it was a smart move by me to cash the cheque shortly after it arrived before Christmas.
It was for 400eu and frankly finances are so bad, I couldn't afford this kind of hassle especially if the wife opened the letter with the bounced cheque info.
Could be trouble for anyone who's arbed a juicy ante-post.
It was for 400eu and frankly finances are so bad, I couldn't afford this kind of hassle especially if the wife opened the letter with the bounced cheque info.
Could be trouble for anyone who's arbed a juicy ante-post.
yere not too bad lads..im owed 6k by a bookie and i cant see any way of getting it back?..
rough out there at the moment - as i said if you are betting acca's multis etc stay with the big boys for that - boyles powers 365 coral hills laddies
even of highstreet firms above they are hurting but they have some sort of reserves
if you hit at least you will get the money
even of highstreet firms above they are hurting but they have some sort of reserves
if you hit at least you will get the money
celtic have 15K limit notices now so Kerrygold has a point
Kavvie, good luck with the bad debt recovery. sounds nasty.
Kavvie, good luck with the bad debt recovery. sounds nasty.
Kavvie..are you owed winnings or duke of kent?
anybody got more info on the Bruces shops in the midlands?
anybody hear if anyone is taking some of the Celtic shops?
anybody got more info on the Bruces shops in the midlands?
anybody hear if anyone is taking some of the Celtic shops?
not a nice thing to happen..its hard enough to win ..then not to get paid is very galling
Kavvie....There are two things you can do to recover your money,you could name him here,forcing his hand,or you could go to the relevant authorities with your complaint.You dont say if he is an on course or off course layer,now the downside, if the debt was incurred during Listowel you are in trouble because disgracefully the racing board are not honouring those debts,if the debt was incurred in the west Wicklow area get in the queue because that same gentleman owes me 17 thousand.
Tuam Athy Naas Mullinngar bruces have sold their shops i heard
if you have last sundays racing post it names all the bruce shops changing hands in an article, and it says 38 of the 40 current staff keeping their jobs too.
named them all in the post, i dont have it sorry.
Kavvie......If the debt is from Listowel i would write to both the I.H.A. and Listowel asking for payment i believe there is some movement in that area,if its from West Wicklow......dear oh dear.
is wicklow a dead duck?could we talk?e mail me ur number and ill ring u..tonkav@live.co.uk ta
Kavvie, in west wicklow, might you be as well banging your head against a brick.....????
jsaysus...i thought i was the only one..does he owe much...?
Kavvie.....Ihate to be the bearer of bad news but i think thereis a lot more owed also a lot of kites floating around.I do know of someone who drew something but he had to call into his office on a constant basis he tells me the man is skint.
how about celtic cheques with mr walsh any chance getting paid
looks like Kavie you have lost your bottle and you the one questioning Martin Mc****ss's bottle up against a Nato force
wat u want me to do kerry?.....id like to know wat u wud do
racing seems to be heading into a downward spiral .... future not looking great ..... everyone needs to pull together to get this great game back on its feet .... bookies not paying out makes things a lot worse ....
I just passed the Celtic Shop in Blanchardstown. Sign in shop window , saying shop closed with immediate effect, all winnings can be collected at any other Celtic Shop . . . . . .
More than half of the shops in the Celtic Bookmakers chain have been saved from closure, it was revealed tonight.
Sixteen shops in the collapsed gambling chain, headed up by former politician Ivan Yates, shut down with the loss of 56 jobs this evening.
But receiver Neil Hughes, of accountancy firm Hughes Blake, said the remaining 29 outlets remain viable and will stay open with most of the jobs rescued.
“It is with great regret that we have announced the closure of 16 shops with the loss of 56 jobs,” he said.
“It is, unfortunately, a necessary move if we are to maintain the viability of the majority of the shops in the network and protect the remaining jobs.
“With the offers received for the remaining outlets, I am now confident that it will be possible to safeguard the vast majority of the remaining jobs.”
There were fears for 237 jobs at the company after it went into receivership earlier this month, owing Allied Irish Banks more than €6m.
Two shops in Raheny, Dublin and Naas, Co Kildare, have already closed, with the loss of six jobs, since the receiver was put in place.
The other closures announced this evening are in Dublin (Dean Street, Dun Laoghaire, Blanchardstown, Phibsboro), Castlecomer Road in Kilkenny, Cork City, Limerick City, Mallow, Carrick on Suir, Cashel, Dooradoyle in Co Limerick and Listowel, Co Kerry.
Outlets in Sligo, Ballina in Co Mayo, Tuam and Roscommon also shut.
The shops will reopen next week for one day to settle all bets.
Mr Hughes said all workers who lost their jobs would receive statutory entitlements.
The rescued outlets are expected to be sold off as going concerns to competing bookies in the coming weeks
Sixteen shops in the collapsed gambling chain, headed up by former politician Ivan Yates, shut down with the loss of 56 jobs this evening.
But receiver Neil Hughes, of accountancy firm Hughes Blake, said the remaining 29 outlets remain viable and will stay open with most of the jobs rescued.
“It is with great regret that we have announced the closure of 16 shops with the loss of 56 jobs,” he said.
“It is, unfortunately, a necessary move if we are to maintain the viability of the majority of the shops in the network and protect the remaining jobs.
“With the offers received for the remaining outlets, I am now confident that it will be possible to safeguard the vast majority of the remaining jobs.”
There were fears for 237 jobs at the company after it went into receivership earlier this month, owing Allied Irish Banks more than €6m.
Two shops in Raheny, Dublin and Naas, Co Kildare, have already closed, with the loss of six jobs, since the receiver was put in place.
The other closures announced this evening are in Dublin (Dean Street, Dun Laoghaire, Blanchardstown, Phibsboro), Castlecomer Road in Kilkenny, Cork City, Limerick City, Mallow, Carrick on Suir, Cashel, Dooradoyle in Co Limerick and Listowel, Co Kerry.
Outlets in Sligo, Ballina in Co Mayo, Tuam and Roscommon also shut.
The shops will reopen next week for one day to settle all bets.
Mr Hughes said all workers who lost their jobs would receive statutory entitlements.
The rescued outlets are expected to be sold off as going concerns to competing bookies in the coming weeks
am amazed the shop near the X is still open...
mostly wan yo-yo virtual tricast punters sprinting in from the Snug next door...
mostly wan yo-yo virtual tricast punters sprinting in from the Snug next door...
This statement keeps cropping up; 'owing allied irsh banks 6m or more'
Does he owe the other banks any more ?
Does he owe the other banks any more ?
I got the letter in November about my Celtic phone account being closed but never recieved the cheque "shortly afterwards"... what course of action can I go about getting this money now?
Ring 01 6699999(recievers office) and ask for Dessie.
He should be able to sort you out.
He should be able to sort you out.
can anyone throw some light on the stance of the payment by new takeover shops ie ppower on lombard street and boyles recent purchase of 17shops , in relation to ante post dockets .I have some ante post soccer and racing dockets pending .
Take your docket direct to the slap head at Newstalk.
I am getting a cheque posted out now, are they still bouncing or what should i do with it?
Interesting article in the phoenix about said issue.....punters check declined(or whatever they call it in the trade)
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