johnny murtagh /epsom derby.

he just might , you would have to be very impressd with that horse yesterday , the question is , what did it beat ???

Most people myself included will not care who wins the Derby ,the flat scene is far too restricted,the same owners,jockeys and trainers dominating almost every race of note.Murtagh and particularly O Brien could hardly be described as charismatic characters,and the ordinary joe soap couldnt care less if they never saw O Brien again not to mind whether he has a derby winner or not.The "nice horse" and" he'l run a nice race" bit has woren a bit thin with the few flat followers  that are left.One thing thats certain is that when they do win this years derby and that does look an absolute certainty,that the reception the winner receives in the ring will be muted,because the connections will be too posh to cheer,and most onlookers will have been hoping they didnt win.In my opinion if they had an award for sports lack of personality of the year then the Colmore boss would have to build an extension for somewhere to put all the gongs he'd have assembled by now.

think it is their best workrider.bred to stay all day as well .

jimeen , to me its about the horse not the owners or trainers or jockeys .i know a few owners and trainers and jockeys on a personal level and belive them to be an integral part of racing, but the end product is the horse .flat racing has never had the support of the irish racing fan like nh racing has , why ? i belive its because we as a nation love the likes of chel , aintree ,we love doing battle on enemy shores .flat racing never had that kind rivelry .

Either this one, or Cape Blanco will run at Chantilly imo.

santa, i never got to seen him in the ring as i was late getting there , but i had a good look at him after he came back in .i liked what i saw ,agile enough to get round epsom .but i keep asking myself what did he beat.

What did Vincent O'Brien say about horses that were guaranteed to stay?

They have to keep something for France & I would think Jan will be going in that direction.

Aidan O'Brien's Jan Vermeer (6-4 favourite) put himself right in the Investec Derby picture with an authoritative display in the Airlie Stud Gallinule Stakes.

Carrying a 7lb penalty for his victory in the Criterium International in November, Johnny Murtagh was content to settle his mount in mid-division behind the pace-setting Bobbyscot.

Murtagh merely had to shake the reins at the son of Montjeu and the response was immediate as he cruised past Bobbyscot, who did well to hold off several challengers for the runner-up spot.

Paddy Power cut the winner to 7-1 co-second favourite from 12s for the premier Classic, alongside stablemates Cape Blanco and Midas Touch.

O'Brien has the first four in the betting as St Nicholas Abbey is their 2-1 market leader.

O'Brien said: "He came here a couple of weeks ago for a canter and Johnny felt he'd be ready for a race in a couple of weeks and that is the way it was.

"He was very impressive and he has always had loads of class. There will be a good bit to come and the race will bring him on a lot.

"Johnny was very impressed and we'll now have to decide whether he goes to Epsom or to the French Derby.

"He's not short of speed and won his Group One last year with a lot of ease.

"We have Cape Blanco, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and this one and in an ideal world we'd like to divide them between Epsom and France.

"Hopefully we'll have made a decision by a week on Monday but Viscount Nelson is definitely in the mix for the French Derby after his run in the Guineas."

st nicholas abbey   still got  to prove itself at 3  though.

maybe didnt beat a great lot workrider but being a montjeu  should improve when stepped up in distance as well  . i just  think hes proved hes trained on whereas the jury is still out for me on st nicholas abbey   .

It seems clear that (not just this year, but the last few) that certain horses in Ballydoyle are showing a lot more than others on the gallops. Is this naive of them to believe they will do the same on the racecourse?

think jan vemeer will go to epsom . think its just a case of ballydoyle cat and mouse..

Cape Blanco and Midas Touch on de drift on ere

Midas, IMO, heading back to his "real" price after the made up bookie gamble last week..

Support continues for Derby possible Vermeer

BY JON LEES 6:43PM 25 MAY 2010

JAN VERMEER'S position as second favourite for the Investec Derby hardened on Tuesday as the ante-post market continued to speak in favour of the colt running at Epsom.

Despite a run in the Prix du Jockey Club at Chantilly also being considered, Sunday's impressive Gallinule Stakes winner was cut again by bookmakers for the Epsom showpiece.

As big as 20-1 in a place before he made his Curragh reappearance, Jan Vermeer is now 11-2 (from 13-2) with Totesport and 6-1 (from 7) with Paddy Power.

Power spokesman Paddy Power said: "After Jan Vermeer's impressive romp in the Gallinule, Aidan warned that he might miss the Derby in favour of the French equivalent 24 hours' later. The 'sharp' money that we've seen would indicate that he is Epsom bound."

St Nicholas Abbey remains clear favourite for the Derby and Ladbrokes reported the Racing Post Trophy winner was the firm's best backed horse in the Derby market.

"We eased St Nick on the back of Jan Vermeer's impressive weekend win and the punters have taken the bait," said spokesman David Williams. "The 2-1 (was 7-4) is unlikely to last much longer as fans of the favourite continue to back him."

Must be running in France so! [smiley:crazy]

WOW, theres that word again, "Sharp."

Bookmakers were quick to react to the money for the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial winner, who was as short as 7-1 with Ladbrokes after a day of sustained support, having started the day at 16-1 with them.

**** also went 7-1 (from 12), Stan James 8-1 (from 10), Victor Chandler and Paddy Power 8-1 (from 12) and William Hill 8-1 (from 16).

Both of O'Brien's previous Derby winners, Galileo in 2001 and High Chaparral the following year, won the Derrinstown en route to their wins at Epsom, and Kate Miller, spokeswoman for William Hill, described the money as "sharp".

Ballydoyle must be right thicko's backing three horses in the one race..

Come on then Doyler, who runs, iyho?

Have Ballydoyle ever backed the wrong one before?

I'm extremely bias
But anyway..

IMO if the St Nicholas Abbey turns up that we know it doesnt matter which reserve runs because theyre all miles behind anyway on times/lines. Not an exact science is it though

I know for a fact that it genuinely hasnt been decided whos running of the three as of this morning, but I also know..

The plan before Jan won the weekend was the French Derby.
Joseph rode Blanco a week or two before the Dante, got off and said he doesnt think he'll stay 1M4F.
And Midas only ran in Leopardstown because Mikhail Glinka was injured.

St Nic is numero uno and the other three are most definitely stable reserves (doesnt stop them winning but anyway). If I had to guess personally, IMO, it would be St Nic and Midas.. but Jan winning on Sunday might change that, Midas running in France will be p!ssing in the wind the way they sprint finish though. And Blanco won the Dante by default when we didnt give him a chance (Workforce hung and Chabal was beaten before the straight), the French might be the way to go given trip doubts. Jan Vermeer would be lucky to win another race never mind the Derby looking at the history of that race on Sunday.. and whens the last time an APOB Group 1 horse ran twice in under two weeks also (and won twice).

IMO, if there was no Sea The Stars everyone would be happy enough with the race he ran in the Guineas as a trial, the stable are anyway, only gutted he lost because seriously 100% thought he was unbeatable beforehand. People moan at us for hype but we put our money were our mouth was every single run so far (and price movements back that up).

Not sure whether I'd back him at 2/1, but I did top up at 4s and 3s when the others have been winning. Preparation all being well over the next two weeks it is not even up for discussion who Johna will ride.

I am extremely bias though it has to be said

Interesting synopsis Doyler - and brings a dose of reality to the situation. You obviously know your stuff regarding the Ballydoyle contingent. Have backed MT at a decent price each way but to be honest can only see him finish 3rd or 4th at best as probably doesn't have enough speed

When was the last time Aiden ran a good horse in the french derby?( Plus he thinks the Grand Prix de Paris is the new french derby anyway). It'll be surprising if Viscount Nelson isn't the best horse he runs.

Colm will do on Dan Jermeer. It's gonna be some derby this year as Workforce looks like he's joining the party too.

Very true Sinndar.

It does seem very clear that SNA is a monster work horse, and they keep emphasizing his speed & times!!?? Is this another advertising ploy for his future stud career, because his racecourse times have been poor!?

I have to go on what i've seen, and I can't have him at all.

Realistically it makes no sense to run all four and hes said publicly that they'll be spilt, he might only run one in France though I suppose, it is THE Derby after all.

Look at the history of the Gallinule anyway..

2009 Grand Ducal - Only ran twice since, twice beaten at 100/1 and 300/1.
2008 Hebridean - Ran three times for the stable after finishing 9th/9, 3rd/6 and 9th/11, was sold and his now a hurdler and only won one.
2007 Alexander of Hales - Ran twice for the stable after winning and never won, finished 16th/20 in France, stayed on to finish second in the Irish Derby on heavy ground, was sold after and has never won a race since.
2006 Puerto Rico - Ran three times after winning for the stable, finished 10th/13, 9th/9 and 3rd/10. Was sold and has never won a race since.
2005 Im Spartacus - Not an APOB winner, but in his next runs he finished 5th/8, 6th/6, 5th/5 and 9th/9. Hes won a hurdle and a handicap after moving yards, has ran countless times though.
2004 Meath - Only ran once after when first string for the Derby, finished 14th/14 beaten over 40L.
2003 Nysaean - Not an APOB, next runs after read 7th/14, 5th/10, 4th/8 and 5th/12. He did win a race though a year later, and never won again.
2002 Della Francesca - Was in Leopardstown from that time, finished 6th/9 on his one run after, was then sold, and only won one race in America a year after at 16/1.
2001 Exaltation - The last Oxx winner, never won a race after winning.

Jan really has a lot to overcome! (IMO)

Probably doesnt mean too much in the grand scheme of things sure the horse doesnt know what happened the others, but compare it to the Guineas, the Dante and the Derrinstown..

The thing is JV's favour regarding that race is that he was held up, and clearly that race was not his preferred target.
If he'd been a month ahead he'd prob have run in either the Derrinstown or Dante imo.

French Derby runners since 00

Westphalia
Drumbeat
Set Sail
ACHILL Island
Chinese Whisper
Alexander of Hales
Aussie Rules
Hurricance Cat
Scorpion
Falstaff
Five Dynasties
Black Sam Bellamy
Castle Gandalfo
River Dancer
Temple of Artemis
Mian
Ciro

Only 2 that were any good were Milan and Scorpion, but Scorpion had got beaten in the Gallinule and Milan wasn't well thought of imo( Galileo's pacemaker).

Westphalia and Drumbeat tells me wat he thinks of the french derby when he could have ran something like Black Bear Island in it.

Westphalia was also his highest placing in the last 10 years when 3rd last year.

Major Shock if Jan Vermeer doesn't run in Epsom imo.

From memory did any of his French Derby runner win a Gr 1 as a 2yo before running, I think not.


Very different with Jan Vermeer running the Gallinule. He had setbacks. The right horses were second and third too imo. Not dogs like Zayann and Icon Dream dragging the form down. Bobbyscot got and easy lead in fairness and Shintoh is a progressive type.

Avery literal rating of the form= Bobby 102, add 7 for JV'S penalty 109, Ease of victory add 8lbs(conservative) 117 and then add in Aiden and what is a possible figure he could run to on his next start. Obviously this is a very basic way of looking at things.

Milan wasn't well thought of at the time i meant. Good horse who surprised them with his progression

2005 Im Spartacus - Not an APOB winner, but in his next runs he finished 5th/8, 6th/6, 5th/5 and 9th/9. Hes won a hurdle and a handicap after moving yards, has ran countless times though.

but Scorpion had got beaten in the Gallinule

Cheers for the reminder of the worst ride I`ve ever seen Fallon give a horse.

I looked at it another way that night, my opinion was, he beat Shintoh 2L just say, and he only beat Encompassing only 3 and a half lengths who is probably one of the worst horses in the yard, biggest dog anyway. Although impressive to the eye, I'm wary of the form in respect to his price as second favourite off the back of it (he was almost unconsidered at 20/1 beforehand) and I think (only what someone else told me, havent had the time to check) that Fame And Glory ran the last furlong quicker than Jan on Sunday, and Fame was easing when the race was over.

I'm not saying Jan cant win or is a lay, just my own opinion is that he should be bigger in the betting.

Probably dead right about not running superstars in France but whens the last time he had four like this, normally has plenty but never like this. IMO anyway, if Jan runs, then it'll be St Nic, Midas and Jan. Someone posted a story on the Antepost forum saying APOB confirmed St Nic and Midas to the press this morning but is still undecided on the other two. I cant find the link though so wont believe that until I hear otherwise.

I'm not sure where Jan would have went if fit, I know he was fairly fit and ready to go while having racecourse gallops instead of running in a race. But the Dante was always Blancos plan from the start of the season and the Derrinstown was Mikhail Glinkas plan. So I dont know where Jan would went, English Guineas maybe if fit, I dont know. He had the option of the Irish Guineas so he was put in the race on Sunday by choice not by default. We didnt think Steinbeck would win on Saturday either so there wasnt a cast iron reason not to run jan, IMO.

Aidan O'Brien says St Nicholas Abbey and Midas Touch will run in the Epsom Derby on Saturday week.

But the Ballydoyle maestro says he hasn't confirmed yet whether the likes of Cape Blanco and Jan Vermeer will join them in the big Classic line-up on the Downs.

Cape Blanco was an impressive winner of York's Dante Stakes, while Jan Vermeer highlighted his potential with a winning reappearance in the Gallinule Stakes at the Curragh on Sunday.

But it appears the French Derby is still a possible alternative for the pair as O'Brien ponders his many options.

He told The Racing Post: "For St Nicholas Abbey and Midas Touch, Epsom has always been the plan.

"Jan Vermeer, who came out of his Curragh race well, and Cape Blanco also have the option of France. They haven't sat down to sort that out yet and it will be another few days before any decision is made."

Yep I agree, Ballydoyle have never had anything like these 4 and that is the niggly thing in the back of my head saying JV might go to france but......they did run Hawk Wing and High Chaparral in it. Times aren't easy assess because of age and the way races are run. Is there any chance Jan is not a morning glory and leaves his running till the track unlike St Nic. He was unfancied on debut, went off 10's in France when Johnny chose a horse that had finished behind JV in Gowran. And he was weak on Sunday. Ihave loads of respect for St. Nic and I think APOB asked him to do the impossible in the 2k Guineas. Ihave Jan and Workforce backed so maybe I'm a bit biased. Hopefully good ground at best and they'll all have no excuses.

He has confirmed those two for Epsom,

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/10/05/26/manual_091910.html

Ya, I've never backed Jan once, and was only vaguely aware of him before winning in France, and even then didnt take too much of an interest in him after. None of jan, Midas and Blanco have been backed in their races this year, been surprising that theyve been winning, which in an odd way, has only instilled more confidence in St Nic because we thought the main dangers would be the winners from outside stables winning those races.

I agree with you on St Nic though, I told Swinia during the winter I'd be seething if he ran in the Guineas as it was the highest possible chance you could find of him being beaten. Still went there thinking he'd win in the end but deep down didnt have it (only had €150 on him compared with others having thousands), he could have jogged around Leopardstown and won handy and everyone would be happy then. But he ran OK in the circumstances, my main worry was he'd finish near last or something. I think someone said theres a stat saying no horse whos finished outside the top four in the Guineas has won the Derby though

My main worry is Bullet Train, although Captain James Cook was close enough to him before he broke down, and he was only a Dundalk maiden winner, Johnny said he thought he was going to be in the first two when he came back too, no reason for him to lie either because the poor horse is brown bread, hardly hyping him up. The way it is now, I've backed St Nic and I'm sticking to it, no laying off, sure we'll race and see who wins.

Nice one for the link.

Cape Blanco defo out according to bettin

i liked the vibes that have been  given over the winter about workforce sinndaar   like they were saying it was a guineas horse not a derby horse then shortened up in the betting.

Aussie Rules was a pretty useful horse and to say that he was no good is fairly harsh and shows you've done no research at all

Yeah fair enough Aussie Rules was decent but no star imo.

No research at all is pretty harsh imo. Sorry if my comments have upset you. Jesus these coolmore fans are a testy bunch. One slip and they get offended.

Santa,

Teddy doesn't help in the slightest.

I didn`t read that list until you were taken to task about AR.
Imo, Black Sam Bellamy and Ciro were both well above average. The former was attempting the impossible to follow in his brothers foootsteps but he was no slouch and won his Gr 1, the latter was O`Briens first U.S winner if I recall correctly.
I suppose it depends on your own interpretation of the term   "any good"!

Cape Blanco back in on ere now to 10 after goin out around 50


Wil they run the 4 of em

SNA on de slide

Good support for JV on here dis mornin - drifted out to 6.6 and in to 5.9 now - with a chunk waitin to be laid at 6

Lads gone 5/2 SNA and 7/2 JV

JOHNNY MURTAGH is to delay a decision on his Investec Derby mount after St Nicholas Abbey, favourite for the Epsom Classic, failed to sparkle on the Ballydoyle gallops on Friday morning.

Speaking at 12.45pm on Friday, trainer Aidan O'Brien said: "Johnny rode St Nicholas Abbey this morning and felt that the colt might not have shown the same sparkle as he did when he rode him on Tuesday morning.

"Consequently, he won't be making up his mind about what he will ride in the Derby until the middle of next week."

O'Brien confirmed that running plans for Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco, both of whom hold entries in the Epsom Classic and the Prix du Jockey Club, will not be made until the middle of next week.


fffsss

A flip flop of favs


St Nic out to 4.8 Not good

Calm down BJG you panic merchant

Gonna be a serious snowball effect given general public fancied Jan beforehand

Didnt work great this morning, although little annoyed over it like, its Sams ride and Johnny took if off him this week, but he wasnt overly happy with him this morning. Having said that he wouldnt know 100% because its fooking Sams ride. It wasnt overly terrible, just like a human in a couldnt be bothered humor.

Say Johnny will ride him again ( ) Tuesday and go from there. Its hardly great news though, he was fine every day before

Might be stating the bleedin` obvious to some but not to others. SNA is now the price he should have been all along.

Donn McClean said on Newstalk last night JV beat nowt on Sunday esp Shintoh who raced too quick back. The price to take on JV was 20/1 beforehand if ye fancied it. Azameel is his fancy if SNA is not up to it.

For the life of me I can`t understand anyone tipping or backing Azmeel. No chance.

maybe on breeding being by Azamour who ran well in the race himself he might have a chance but I'd have one or two ahead of him myself...

I think you`re mixing Azamour up with Alamshar.

I could well be,silly me,same connections though I think HRH The Aga Khan....

He did win the King George at four so you`re right on that side although this ones dam is by Kings Best so it`s not copper-bottomed he will improve for the trip, which he would have to imo.

Kings Best not the most influential alright,although similiar questions could to be asked about CB's dam but I think he would improve for the trip.....

I think most people go with the visual impression any given horse creates in its previous runs if there are pedigree stamina doubts. Based on that I do think Azmeel will get the trip but I can`t believe there`s not at least one good enough to beat him.
I really like Cape Blanco but I`d like to see it run at Chantilly and wait until July to step him up in trip at Longchamp.

Speaking on Channel 4's The Morning Line Aidan O'Brien said: "St Nicholas Abbey worked with Midas Touch on Friday and worked as well as him but that was the unusual thing, normally St Nicholas Abbey works head and shoulders above everything.

"He did a piece of work on Tuesday and Johnny was over the moon with him but he was a little bit disappointed on Friday morning so we decided to let everybody know.

"The problem with training horses is that everyone is different, there is no rule. His work was good, he worked very well.

"Colm (O'Donoghue) rode Midas Touch and he thought he had improved a lot from Leopardstown so that's also there but usually St Nicholas Abbey is head and shoulders above everything, he's the most incredible worker you've ever seen.

"I suppose it might have just taken Johnny back a bit that he just worked as well as Midas Touch.

"He wasn't disappointing, just not as scintillating as he usually is.

"There is always a possibility that any horse wouldn't run, everything has to be right for them to run in a race like that so you could never say never.

"I think we'll make a final decision in the middle of the week. Obviously we have to decide which horses will go to France. Viscount Nelson will definitely go there and whether something goes with him will be decided in the middle of the week.

"They'll work again on Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on the horses, we'll have the main work done by then.

"The two intended for Epsom were St Nicholas Abbey and Midas Touch, along with At First Sight.

"Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco had the possibility of going to France too so if there was any doubt about St Nicholas Abbey there is a big chance Jan Vermeer might go to Epsom as well.

"But it's all up in the air and I would say to everybody to just wait and see because we wouldn't want to run him unless we were very happy with him."

O'Brien also refused to rule out the possibility of Kieren Fallon being on board one of his Derby runners.

"Obviously Johnny will ride one and we've got Colm and Seamus (Heffernan) here and the outside jockeys like Kieren and Pat Smullen. There's some very good jockeys available so I don't think we'll be worrying about that," he added.

Fair played to him going on this morning IMO.

Everyone probably only heard "listen" and "obviously" as usual and never bothered to listen to what he actually said, but he was very honest about the way everything is.

ya fair play Doyler, what Aidan said was basically what you had told us. Still Jan Vermeer for me though

tbf murtagh is very average imo

Fair play to Aidan is correct,it would have been nice if he told people that he coughed,even Pat Keane reported same on this mornings Examiner.He actually all but ruled St Nicholas Abbey out of this years Derby,and i'd fancy Keane isnt far of the mark.Its highly propable that he wont run but Mr Pioneer pin didnt say so.

any link to Pat Keane's piece?

He just basically said one sentence about it with no backing up and left it at that.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/racing/st-nicholas-abbey-likely-to-miss-derby-120995.html

Reported to have worked quite brilliantly earlier in the week, the son of Montjeu more than disappointed connections on the Ballydoyle gallops yesterday morning, prompting Aidan O’Brien to issue a statement.

Said O’Brien: "Johnny (Murtagh) rode St Nicholas Abbey this morning and felt the colt may not have shown the same sparkle as he had when he rode him on Tuesday morning, therefore he won’t make up his mind what horse he rides in the Investec Derby until the middle of next week."

O’Brien is responsible for the first four in the betting – St Nicholas Abbey, Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and Cape Blanco.

Murtagh committed to St Nicholas Abbey for Epsom a long time ago but it now looks virtually certain that will be on Jan Vermeer, so impressive when winning the Gallinule Stakes at the Curragh on his seasonal debut, at Epsom.

Jan Vermeer had a choice between the English Derby and the French equivalent at Chantilly and was surely originally earmarked for the latter.

St Nicholas Abbey was undefeated as last season’s champion two-year-old but could finish only sixth behind Makfi in the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket while the other three have all won their Derby trials in impressive fashion.

My information regarding yesterday’s gallop was that St Nicholas Abbey worked particularly badly and coughed afterwards.

Kate Miller from William Hill reported that punters were quickly looking to back Jan Vermeer yesterday.

She said: "Punters have completely forgotten about St Nicholas Abbey."

William Hill have reacted by promoting Jan Vermeer to favouritism, 11-4 from 6-1. They pushed out St Nicholas Abbey from 7-4 to 3-1.

Meanwhile, Frankie Dettori, who broke his Derby duck on Authorized in 2007, has been confirmed as the jockey for Rewilding.

William Hill bet: 11-4 Jan Vermeer, 3-1 St Nicholas Abbey, 7-1 Midas Touch, 9-1 Bullet Train, Cape Blanco, 10-1 Rewilding, Workforce, 11-1 Azmeel, 20-1 bar.



Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/racing/st-nicholas-abbey-likely-to-miss-d...

Thanks doyler.

Keane is putting his head on the block here.

Thanks bjg

carefully decoded  into   im  going to ride jan vemeer   but wont be announcing it officially tillwednesday thursday.  just the usual aidan  smokescreen.

Big slide on SNA tonight ffs

Not gonna run imo

Ouch!   Not looking good alright.

I'm surprised you were not there to hear the cough yourself doyler seeing as you are such an authority on all things Ballydoyle.

I iz not de man like, thegalwayman.

I didnt here him cough but I wasnt following him around all day Friday in the stable so I'm not commenting on roomoors on what happened afterwards because lots of things are sayyed and I havent been their to know 100-par-cent so I dont wanna say something that I dont fully know myself cos that wood be stupid on my part and guessing tbh, and also if the gaffer doesnt want that info leaked well then what can I do sure its not in my hands to say. My opinion is, get to tuesday, see how ze horse iz and go from their.

I iz doing all my munnies like everywon else FWIW and feel a bit depressed. No laying off hear and I stand to looose the guts of 2.5k

Pat Keane was out of order in the paper guessing, IMO. If you where to read his storie on the 22nd of May you wood know he has no info from the Ballydoyle gallops, so why suddenly has he got info now over something like this that only less than a handful of people wood know, coming from anywon else is a roomoor.

But sure fk it, nothing will change the situation anyway, what am I supposed to do.

*typos innit man, I know you lurve 'em..

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/pat-keane/wait-for-obrien-to-solve-derby-mystery-120446.html

I also said on my blog that you would worry that something was amiss with him because he just doesnt go from being a good horse to a bad horse overnight, so I dont know, I'm just hoping to see something better on Tuesday. My initial thoughts were that, it was just a poor enough piece of work by his standards, but then theres loads of things going on in my head because Johnny rode him Tuesday and he clocked a seriously fast time, but Johnny doesnt ride him normally so did he ask the horse to do something different hes not used to and it reflected then on Friday. I dont know, up the creak without a paddle..

I'l think we will see in a few days doyler that it is you who is the guesser and not Pat Keane.A respected scribe who wouldnt have written what he did unless he was 100% certain what actually happened.This is not hearsay or some unfounded rumour,the horse coughed whether or not pioneer pin admitted it publicly or not.

Yes, I am guessing because I dont know IF he coughed or not. So therefore I cannot comment 100%, that was my point.

Anyway, I'm not getting involved anymore I honestly give up, what will be will be.

Aidan O'Brien still has six in, including St Nicholas Abbey, Jan Vermeer, Cape Blanco and Midas Touch, though he is expected to whittle down his team.

Godolphin also have Al Zir entered, while owner Khalid Abdullah has leading fancies Bullet Train and Workforce.

Totesport reacted to the entries by clipping Jan Vermeer into 9-4 (from 5-2) while also easing St Nicholas Abbey out to 4-1 (from 7-2). Buzzword meanwhile, was introduced at 50-1.

Totesport spokesman George Primarolo feels that Jan Vermeer will go off favourite on Saturday.

"It's looking increasingly likely that Jan Vermeer will go off favourite for this year's Derby and will surely shorten further if Johnny Murtagh decides to ride him instead of St Nicholas Abbey," he said.

Ladbrokes have also shortened Jan Vermeer making him a 2-1 shot (from 9-4) while also cutting Workforce to 7-1 (from 8) and Hot Prospect to 50-1 (from 66).

David Williams of Ladbrokes said: "The entire Derby market seems to now hinge on the Ballydoyle gallops. In the absence of solid news punters have continued to back Jan Vermeer rather than St Nicholas Abbey."

15 to place SNA

There has been more talk about this St Nicholas Abbey than there ever was about Sea The Stars at the same stage last year (who only won the Guineas)

*had only won the guineas

The word from Navan on Saturday was

1) Murtagh will probably ride Jan Vermeer

2) Cape Blanco will run in France.

A good authority on form told me that he reckons it should be a classic double for the Irish.

A) Jan Vermeer. SNA carries his head too high now.
B) Bolger's Akadera for the Oaks.

yeh that bolger filly has done well last time in the blinkers gaLLOPED ON STRONGLY.

Does Bolger's filly def run soapp?
Really like her, in what looks an open race, can see her going off 5s - if she runs obviously.

DAS, I didn't hear anything to the contrary. Remember When he reckons will run a big race too if allowed to take its chance.

Ta.

St Nicholas Abbey ruled out of Derby

BY ANDREW SCUTTS 8:57AM 1 JUN 2010

ST NICHOLAS ABBEY was on Tuesday ruled out of the Investec Derby at Epsom on Saturday by Aidan O'Brien.

The Racing Post Trophy winner had been ante-post favourite for the 1m4f Classic since winning at Doncaster, but in recent days has been usurped as market leader for Epsom by stablemate Jan Vermeer, having worked not up to his usual standards last Friday.

O'Brien released a statement on Tuesday morning which read: "St Nicholas Abbey was due to work first thing this morning, however when he came out of his box we noticed he was stiff behind. He had looked slightly stiff yesterday evening.

"His work on Friday last was a little lacklustre for him and that was the first time we had seen anything different, but he was fine afterwards.

"He was immediately examined and scanned by our vets this morning. They found a slight muscle injury high up in his hind quarter. This meant he could not work today and we were advised to give him an easy few days.

"Obviously this will preclude him from running in the Investec Derby on Saturday. We always thought St Nicholas Abbey could walk on water and it is very unfortunate for all concerned to have a setback like this so close to the big race."

With Jan Vermeer sure to shorten further in the betting, most punterswill assume that Johnny Murtagh will be confirmed as riding Gallinule Stakes winner Jan Vermeer at Epsom on Saturday.

You beat me to it das.
Sorry backers!

there you go.as micky fitz might say.

Cape Blanco could join Abbey in missing Derby

BY RACING POST STAFF 2:27PM 1 JUN 2010

CAPE BLANCO may join ante-post favourite St Nicholas Abbey in missing Saturday's Investec Derby after trainer Aidan O'Brien gave the strongest indication yet of his running plans for the Classic on Tuesday.


While stressing that his plans were not yet definite, O'Brien looks like having three runners at Epsom - Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and At First Sight - with Totesport Dante Stakes winner Cape Blanco, who is as short as 6-1 third favourite with Coral, likely to bypass the Derby in favour of the following day's Prix du Jockey Club at Chantilly.

O'Brien said on Tuesday afternoon: "It is looking likely, but not definite, that Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and At First Sight will be going for the Investec Derby and increasingly likely that Cape Blanco will be going for the Prix du Jockey Club along with Viscount Nelson."

Earlier, the two times Derby-winning trainer had issued a statement revealing that Racing Post Trophy winner St Nicholas Abbey would miss the Derby.

St Nicholas Abbey had been ante-post favourite for the 1m4f Classic since winning at Doncaster in October, but in recent days had been usurped as market leader by stablemate Jan Vermeer, having not worked up to his usual standard last Friday.

O'Brien said: "St Nicholas Abbey was due to work first thing this morning, however when he came out of his box we noticed he was stiff behind. He had looked slightly stiff yesterday evening.

"His work on Friday last was a little lacklustre for him and that was the first time we had seen anything different, but he was fine afterwards.

"He was immediately examined and scanned by our vets this morning. They found a slight muscle injury high up in his hind quarter. This meant he could not work today and we were advised to give himan easy few days.

"Obviously this will preclude him from running in the Derby on Saturday. We always thought St Nicholas Abbey could walk on water and it is very unfortunate for all concerned to have a setback like this so close to the big race."

O'Brien has yet to confirm riding plans for Epsom, but given Jan Vermeer's dominance in the market, Johnny Murtagh is expected to stay loyal to the impressive Gallinule Stakes winner.

mistake sending cape blanco to france imo.

Hi mightymoyes. Aidan O'Brien here. I won't send him so. Thanks.

Hi Aiden bout time you saw sense. you clearly need a bit of help winning the derby, been so long now you musta forgotten how to do it despite all the resources in the world.

You're right. I don't have a clue. Thanks for setting me straight.

no probs, next time i'll be charging though.

he is right aidan - big mistake

told you aidan you dopey cnut.