St Nicholas Abbey

He's a 4/1 shot to win the Guineas/Derby double, STS did that, then some.
I'd want bigger than 4s!

to say you'd never have heard of STS - thats the stupid bit, would still have been a top class colt regardless of anything St Nic did. Otherwise entitled to believe & spin away to their hearts content

SnA was a better 2year old than StS so could achieve equally as much without having to improve as much as StS had to...imo...price now 7/2 for anybody that wants! ;)

Gent, its a turn of phrase to impart the esteem they hold the colt in. Dont be such a nit picker!

2/1 would be my price...i think he will achieve everything if not more that STS ...just my opinion...guess we will know a bit more after the guineas

Considering hes 4/1 for the Guineas/Derby double, just 2 of the races he will have to win to achieve the magic number of 135, Id be looking well north of 4/1.

The birds in the trees at Ballydoyle d'ont even think St Nicholas Abbey is the best horse in the yard

Theres nobody more relieved that Sea The Stars is retired than Coolmore and Ballydoyle

az - what price would you quote?

Johannesburg was a better 2yo then SNA and STS put together!

id say more 10/1, but he does look like the type that goes on and stretches out at the finish unlike sts who does just enough!!i think he'll burn himself out and wont be the prospect everyone thinks!!hope im wrong as i love my superstars like anyone else!! i think he'll get beat in the guineas but wouldnt be suprised if he wins!!

we'll never kno but id rather sts everytime :D

just to note also that ts possible he was a v forward 2yr old and think his rivals may have grown more than him!!eitherway he'll have to win on sat if he is to be even considered as good as sts and will be impressive if he does as all the trends seem to be against him!!rp trophy winners, montjeu etc...lookin formward to it!hope he does it but i wont be backing, stablemate looks good bet tho:D

gl

Ballydoyle's big hope is Sea The Stars is a good racehorse but a bad sire.

If STS is a good sire then Coolmore are scrambling for a Sadler's Wells replacement, although they have a few good ones. They need to have something to hype atm.

SNA is a total hype horse - for the life of me I cannot see a son of Montjeu winning a Guineas

the rain is coming and Iav loaded up on SNA, was iffy with good to firm but full steam ahead now

You cannot say st nicholas abbey is a total hype horse when he has already won group 1 both in ireland and uk???
I think fencing master his stablemate is very dangerous in the guineas, good e/w imo

o Brien best described this horse as "unusual" and has being quoted in the newspapers this week "his ready" my *****are down. The rain eases any fears

it is the lay of the week

lashing rain over here at the moment in Uk , promised all weekend !

macrocky 29 Apr 20:35


You cannot say st nicholas abbey is a total hype horse when he has already won group 1 both in ireland and uk???
I think fencing master his stablemate is very dangerous in the guineas, good e/w imo



He is a total hype horse when everywhere you turn there are comparisons with Sea The Stars. I don't think he will achieve half what that horse did - especially given a likely preference for soft ground - he's unlikely to get that in the height of summer. Even if he trains on this year to win a G1 - one run on fast ground in top class company could wreck him

he wins it going away from them.

trying to emulate what STS did will be asking alot

Rain coming now in newmarket, at 6/4 he could possibly be bet of the season. Elusive Pimpernel is clear second fav., and I cannot see how on earth he is going to reverse placings with SNA from the running of the Doncaster race. Showed a blistering turn of foot to quicken off a slow pace in the Racing Post Trophy and at the Curragh also on his previous run. Steering job for J Murtagh imo.

I flew in last night and it hasnt rained much at all, not enough to be a factor to the ground anyway, bright this morning on the gallops but starting to get cloudy now, theyre expecting rain, we'll see if it comes.

I ended up backing SNA for the Guineas/Derby double at 4/1. If he win impressively tomorrow he'll be odds on in the Derby.

GL

cheers for update doyler,enjoy it over

maybe he will win but hes going against the stats.montjeu progeny dont win g1s over a mile?.rp winners dont win over a mile as 3 yr olds generally?he prefers soft ground?ap o briens generally need a run in last few years?maybe he will win but hes got to be a freak to do so..id say he will be a fast finishing 4th!!..he will prob win easy after all that.

Fencing Master touching nearly 20/1 on here is too big, have gone in.

Even more likely to be a fast finishing 4th.

Spoils the first to go 1/1 - shock of the year there!

his going there to win it,no run needed this is aidan o brien were talking about, the 2G a very important race for ballydoyle,hence his record in the race, gound "not a issue" said o brien. It will come to some shock to ballydoyle if his beaten, according to sources they already have him past the post

wasnt a mile supposed to be too sharp for Golan before he hosed up.

not for me,. value in the race has increased due to the money on the short priced fav.

Long time since i looked foward to the reappearance of a 3 year old so much. Not a cent on tomorrow but on at decent prices for the Derby. Looks a bit short tomorrow and Dunlops looks good each way value to me.

come on lads in heavy an hard

"Ballydoyle have past the post already"

"my mole says he's better than STS"

"he's not even the best in the yard"

for flip sakes lads, dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

Yes he may well prove to be the dogs bo llocks, but 4/1 that he is better than a horse who won everything last season and was perhaps the best horse since shergar to capture the public, give over, yes they may come like buses but:

ONE COOL CAT
JOHANNSBURG
HAWKWING

there is each way value to be had tommorrow, if he wins so be it, but not with my money

Interesting comments by the racing post experts in todays paper, with their summation , the 2000 guineas will be the hardest race SNA will have all year given his breeding. If he manages to win the 2000 relatively easy you may not see 1/2 for the derby

Pouring rain in London at the moment.

Any ground reports? TIA

said bit of rain overnight
1-2 for o,brien possible imo

Got this off the BHA - Racecourse Newmarket
First Race Time 1.55pm
Going Good to firm
Other Information 3mm of rain since 4pm yesterday. Forecast of sunny spells with the chance of a light shower and temperature reaching 14 degrees.

Love this race. Not loving SNA`s price though. Predictions of odds on! He is obviously the one to beat but not even George Washington or Hawk Wing were this short. Crazy.

his getting very short, their backing him like he wont be beat, vibes must be very strong from Ballydoyle. If he was easy to back id say somthing but this sustained.

I suppose you have got to rrespect money that would drive this horse odds on, but I can't help thinking 10/11 or 4/5 would be an absoulte nonsense price

Bio - thats why I started the thread. No ramping here!

I remember before the RP Trophy I thought his price was idiotic and he made a mockery of that notion. He`s clearly very talented but if he`s going to be beaten it will be today because we wont see him over a mile again.

For all that APOB will tell us otherwise!!!

iv backed him

Just been reminded that I promised the wife and kids a trip to the National History Museum, what pubs in the areaare sure to show the racing?

its like this if the horse is well forward then he wins it but if at 90% then he gets turned over.
Think ballydoyle need this more than they want it as they go and try to emulate STS achievements.

Light rain overnight, not enough to change the ground a lot, sunny on the course this morning but starting to get a bit dark-cloudy-ish now, theyre expecting one or two showers today anyway, whether it arrives by 3 bells or not is anyones guess.

Was out there though and its lovely ground for everyone, no excuses. Calling it 'good to firm' but theres more good in it than firm if you know what I mean, firm is 10 on the stick and its around 8.5/6, good is 8, its basically perfect summer flat racing ground and no one should have any problems, no jar or anything it'll be grand for everyone.

I can see why people are worrying because hes never raced on it but it was good the day he won the Beresford, its not really an issue I reckon but we'll see.

Getting a bit nervous now :p

Last few years the tendency has been for the runners to race up the middle which is the most satisfactory scenario, but I don`t think it will happen today because I reckon Hughes will make a beeline towards the stands rail on Canford Cliffs. He doesn`t want it to drift left again like the last day so that could leave SNA out towards the centre of the course and struggling for cover.
There are too many negatives for me about this fav (trends, pedigree) to even consider betting it at current prices. Good luck to all who do.

Propaganda imo. The worst even money shot in history. I wouldny beleive the Lord prayer out of the mouth of anyone with anything to do with Ballydoyle anymore

I am looking forward to the excuses APOB will make post race.

im looking forward to what imaginary price biodiesel will have laid off in running

can lay off now and make e900

just to let you know Plat Iav taken my money off the table for 1000 profit but Iav 250 on him a while back and thats frozen in the antepost market but ill let that ride, wel see

Elusive Pimpernel @ 2.3 for a place is my bet here, cant see him out of the 3

:0 boooooooooil oveeeeeeeeerrrrrrr

phew!!!! I could lost thousands in that race!!

One word sums up that crew. Well actually 2 words but I will only put 1 up here

Propaganda

posted by xis a ruof 28 Apr 15:38

I was talking to a source very close to the yard and he's not one for lofty predictions, so I nearly fell over when he said 'if St Nicholas Abbey was around last year, you would never have heard of Sea the Stars'! . Obviously only time will tell, but what price do you think is a good price for SNA to finish the season with an higher official rating than STS got in 2009 (135

What a load of p ish. Worse statement on here EVER

i lost

Hype - maybe St Leger horse

Triumph Hurdle more like.

Anyone that watched a replay of the RP trophy that thought this horse could come down the hill on fast ground at Newmarket needs another pastime.
this is a typical son of Montjeu

1. Needs more than a mile
2. Needs an eae to be at his best
3. Has an attitude problem
4. Is overhyped

I would agree with the first three points there. Not the worst Derby trial i have seen.

don't like the head carriage

At least APOB was some way honest there. Hopefully this will signify a change in attitude from them.
No one minds an honest error. Just come out and be honest and move on. Horse kept at it well up the hill.

It is just the rubbish hype in the build up that gets on my wick

the horse will be trained on from here, its pretty much a disgrace, clear warnings should of being given that the horse was a betting proposition. Those in the know layed this horse and made a fortune, alarming drift on here

Carried his head high

Thats not true BIO. The horse was remarkably steady on here and only drifted a couple of ticks at the end because it was clearly sweating underneath the saddle at the start

The propaganda ensured it would stay short.

I remember one time at Epsom for the Derby when Magnier himself went down to Justin Carthy in the ring and gave him his instructions. Carthy said when will I stop punting the horse and Magnier said just make sure it goes off favourite.
Horse was nowhere.
When they are good they leave it to Tabor whose money alobe will make them short. When they are not fancied they use Coomore money to feed the Propaganda machine.

A beaten short priced favourite in a classic is better than a drifting horse that may not have trained on etc..
It is only public money and we all know what Coolmore/Ballydoyle care about the punters

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of
the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. ... ;)

lustrum I didnt get to see the race so I cant comment on that. But on here in the final few minutes he went from 2.16 to 2.42, come on mate!, enjoyed ur justin mc story. You know Tabs has a guy whos one of the biggest layers on here

nice training run aidan ...

and those on the inside knew, do u think they used this cash facility.The 90/10 rule is alive and well on here. I play around with o Briens 1st time out runners but I never thought it would happen in Newmarket.Another experiece to add to the experience bank

My own view with them is they have nothing so far this year. It is all very well saying the horses are not fit but those excuses will only last for so long. They were at it all last year as well with Fame and Glory.
Watch out for much more propaganda in the lead up to the Derby.

Their period of dominance is coming to an end as the Sheikhs eventually start to catch up. Sea the Stars was the turning point and while he was not a Sheikhs horse he was not a coolmore one either.

I for one will not mourn this as in latter years they have treated the public with complete contempt abd it is getting worse every year. They need to be brought down a peg or two

Kriskin - the price he finished up wouldnt suggest that, but he was beat fair and square. Thanks for the post, after the race!

How bad a trial was that for 'The Derby'?

xis - was not having ago at u. The source from the stable. As they say "U don't shoot the messenger"

Kriskin - the message was in good faith. And I think the betting shows I wasn't getting put through it. But I accept your point, we live, we learn. What price now to finish the season with a bigger rating than STS. (how ya do a smiley!)

;) ;) ;) ;)

Ta K, always learning!

Biodiesel 01 May 15:11
phew!!!! I could lost thousands in that race!!

yep

Biodiesel 01 May 15:03
just to let you know Plat Iav taken my money off the table for 1000 profit but Iav 250 on him a while back and thats frozen in the antepost market but ill let that ride, wel see

Playing with the houses money here, was stepping up my stakes to a new level, would of being a mini disaster if I had it on

do people really think SNA wasn't trying to win the guineas?

what's in it for the breeders to have their horse finish down the field in a classic instead of running it when it has the best chance of winning?

the talk about propaganda sounds very paranoid, or maybe I'm just naive.

it wastrying to an extent but no montjeu is going to win a guineas on quickish ground anyway . obrien said its times where good in trials at home but this horse was never going to be a miler at 3 even if training on.

do people really think SNA wasn't trying to win the guineas?

Damn sure he was trying and they expected him to win.
Devoted To You is quite interesting today mind.

dont talk rubbish giant strides.. dont think obrien would seriously think a montjeu horse on quickish ground over a mile would win a 2000 guineas. his summing up after the race for once would be an accurate assessment of how they felt.

The pace of the race was as much to blame. it was only a crawl for the first 5 furlongs. Unlike O'Brien not to run a pacemaker. He ought to if he felt that SNA needed a good even pace.

For once I believe APOB about the pace and that they didn't wire him up for a mile early. But you have to ask questions about why there wasn't pacemakers put in the race for ST NIC. Now this is officially aftertiming and throw dirt all you like. Look at it this way, doubts about stamina surrounded Dick, Canford, Awzaan, who were all well fancied before the race and surely to make sure the potential 10-12f horses got every chance, should pacemakers have been employed? Fencing Master wasn't a pacemaker. He's an idle sort and wouldn't be sharp enough to lead a Guineas field at a good pace and King K wasn't gonna be asked to do a boys job on Viscount Nelson even tho that horse has already shown himself to at the very best a group 2 horse. I think with pacemakers the result would have been a lot different as I feel the 2nd and 3rd home esp Canford are not stoute stayers of 8f. Anyone do the sectionals for the race?

ah soapp ur sharper than me.

I am aftertiming like you!!

Sharp Minds After Time!

He was beat fair and square, although I think he will still go off favourite for the derby, where he's the one to beat.

About what santa? Devoted To You!
Whether you believe SNA wasn`t supposed to win the Guineas based on trends, pedigree, ground etc, doesn`t in any way correlate to them not trying to win it!
If you do then you`re the one talking rubbish.

never said sna wasnt trying to win. just in my opinion i dont think obrien thought it would thats my point . theres no way a top man like him would think that with its pedigree but if he had done with montjeu blood it would have boosted its stud value which is why they attempted it.

Akin to any father who thinks his geese are swans, I reckon APOB believes the majority of his hyperbole santa.

Considering where Cape Blanco, Midas Touch and Jan Vermeer appear to be in the Ballydoyle pecking order, is SNA a good thing in the Derby?

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Some flood of money for the Derby over the last week

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