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17 Mar 10
22:31
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Date Joined:
30 Sep 03
Is it true that when all the boards were 10/11 Master Minded the bould Mr Dineen went 11/10.If so I hope he filled the bag.
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ya thats true murphy! heard he took a monkey out of it..
You need to be shrewd to go 11/10 when you could lay 100000 of it on here at 1.9 or less allright.
he might not have bee so shrewd today if he laid big bucks at evs or better, win some lose some, that the way it goes
kavvie 18 Mar 19:21
best bookie alive.he takes a view and stands by it
That's why he is history in the irish ring.
Roll on April 1st when the real best bookie returns. Davy Hyland.
best bookie alive.he takes a view and stands by it
That's why he is history in the irish ring.
Roll on April 1st when the real best bookie returns. Davy Hyland.
Major Rumpus 18 Mar 19:21
You need to be shrewd to go 11/10 when you could lay 100000 of it on here at 1.9 or less allright
..................................................................
Yeah and probably end up pay 23% in Premiun Charges and commission to betfair. ie 23,000 :^0
The goalposts now have moved on the exchanges I'm afraid. :(
You need to be shrewd to go 11/10 when you could lay 100000 of it on here at 1.9 or less allright
..................................................................
Yeah and probably end up pay 23% in Premiun Charges and commission to betfair. ie 23,000 :^0
The goalposts now have moved on the exchanges I'm afraid. :(
Have it on fairly good authority that he was laying it for allduckornodinner.
You must be the only person paying this 23% that you keep quoting Blessington.I'll lay you 1/1 to whatever you like about you proving evidence that your premium charge in any one week was 23%.
TOLMI...Flip sake there probaly at least 3000 of us. Since Betfair claim its only 2000.
Its probaly unusal for 5% commission merchants like myself to get caught for it. But heck when you have OVER 10 years on here to get your act together its no surprise to have a winning account at the end of it.
Especially for a sports better and a Kerry one. Anything you lose during the year you can expect back in spades once the GAA season starts.
Hey Tolmi did you see pp shares went up 5% alone today on the Irish stock market. Incredible isn't it! Surely can all be down to just the Cheltenham results there pretty rough but I've seen a lot worse Cheltenham festivals result wise......Cheers
Its probaly unusal for 5% commission merchants like myself to get caught for it. But heck when you have OVER 10 years on here to get your act together its no surprise to have a winning account at the end of it.
Especially for a sports better and a Kerry one. Anything you lose during the year you can expect back in spades once the GAA season starts.
Hey Tolmi did you see pp shares went up 5% alone today on the Irish stock market. Incredible isn't it! Surely can all be down to just the Cheltenham results there pretty rough but I've seen a lot worse Cheltenham festivals result wise......Cheers
Thats not correct winston,as far as i can make out Allduckornodinner was saying that this person was a villain,he even had the audacity to back horses that won at a recent point to point without consulting him prior to placing these wagers.Allduckornodinner pointed out that as he wasnt a seasoned pointer and as such had no right to be there as he was no regular punter at these events.He also pointed out that an associate of his was also an undesirable character,linking this particular gentleman to a top national hunt jockey.Allduckornodinner mentioned,warning offs,jail terms and allsorts of penalties so i doubt if they have become friendly in the last month.
Your not very savvy to sarcasm are you Donegal Publican?
I have more savvy than come on here and ridicule people who contribute daily to racing in many ways,employ staff,pay training fees,give service to the betting community in all sorts of weather and ive never ever heard somebody say that they didnt get paid from these people.Just because they arrive at a point and back a few winners,you get the needle and come on here**gingg them off,simply because you are a jealous begrudger.
allduck seems he the only person who pays to get into a p to p that is allowed to have a bet
Yes I am jealous of John Dineen and the contribution he makes to racing. It's all so clear to me now. Next time I see him I will thank him for his selfless work for the industry and marvel at why he devotes himself to racing when he really should be pursuing his true vocation in the church.
One thing I will say in his favour is that it seems he took an opinion on MM and backed it up by taking him on at a time where most bookies won't lay two bobs
alldick o sorry allduck i am sure he will be delighted u praised him
I wouldn't go so far as to call it praise barry2. I just call it like I see it. By the by you really should look into taking a standup comedy class or something like that. Someone with your rapier wit and intelligent humour is wasted on the betfair forum.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Blessington if you can find any of the 3000 you are talking about i'll lay them as well.I think if you re read the premium charge rules you'll find you have shown a basic lack of understanding of it.
TOLMI...If I ever was invited to Mastermind my choosen subject would probably be Premiun Charges as unfortunely I now know them inside out upside down whatever way you want to look at them. :^0
At one stage I indeed knew them and understood better than the Betfair helpdesk. :0
In my case now its pretty simple I'm on 20% charges if I place a bet today and it wins I pay my 5% and if I don't have another bet by the end of the week or at least a losing one.
I pay a further 20% on my 97% of winnings from that single bet on Sunday night....deducted Wednesday.
I'm not even allowed my full 5% that I already paid but 3%.... hence the 23% total deduction..Cheers
At one stage I indeed knew them and understood better than the Betfair helpdesk. :0
In my case now its pretty simple I'm on 20% charges if I place a bet today and it wins I pay my 5% and if I don't have another bet by the end of the week or at least a losing one.
I pay a further 20% on my 97% of winnings from that single bet on Sunday night....deducted Wednesday.
I'm not even allowed my full 5% that I already paid but 3%.... hence the 23% total deduction..Cheers
If the premium charge is your specialised subject Blessington then I hope for your own sake that we don't see you in the black leather chair anytime soon.Maybe to simplify it for you a numerical might help.Assuming one winning bet in the week with no losing bets.
Profit on bet of 1000
Commission paid of 5% 50
Net Profit 950
Commission generated 3% 30
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
Now if you had picked those smiley things as your subject I'd have you at 1.01 to score a maximum!
Profit on bet of 1000
Commission paid of 5% 50
Net Profit 950
Commission generated 3% 30
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
Now if you had picked those smiley things as your subject I'd have you at 1.01 to score a maximum!
TOLMI...Your .half right. Here's were your wrong.
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
They regard your 30 commission generated as seperate which leaves you with a bill of 20% on 970........which is 184 .
Add that to your 50 already paid and its leaves you with a total of 234 commission on your 1000 win a total percentage of 23.4% commission paid on your winning single bet.
So your Premiun charge is not more 20% of your winnings 970 but you already had paid a different charge commission of 5% and thats is not included in your PC hence 23.4% ;) ...Cheers
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
They regard your 30 commission generated as seperate which leaves you with a bill of 20% on 970........which is 184 .
Add that to your 50 already paid and its leaves you with a total of 234 commission on your 1000 win a total percentage of 23.4% commission paid on your winning single bet.
So your Premiun charge is not more 20% of your winnings 970 but you already had paid a different charge commission of 5% and thats is not included in your PC hence 23.4% ;) ...Cheers
OOPS minor error there.
TOLMI...Your .half right. Here's where you went wrong.
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
You only get allowed for half your Commission paid for the calculation ie, 2.5% not the 3% figure you mentioned thats for implieded commission
That means your allowed 25 instead of the 50 already paid plus the 20% of the 1000 gross win which leaves you with a total bill of 225 on your 1000 win.
Which depends on how you look at it, ie as a glass half full or half empty is 23% or 22%. :^0
TOLMI...Your .half right. Here's where you went wrong.
Maximum Premium Charge 20% of your Gross Profit less your Commission generated .In this case it equates to 20% of 1000 i.e.200 less 30 or 170.
Add your Premium Charge to your Commission paid of 50 you get a total charge of 220 or 22%.
Even if you have no losing bets your Premium Charge cannot exceed 22% of your Gross Profit.
You only get allowed for half your Commission paid for the calculation ie, 2.5% not the 3% figure you mentioned thats for implieded commission
That means your allowed 25 instead of the 50 already paid plus the 20% of the 1000 gross win which leaves you with a total bill of 225 on your 1000 win.
Which depends on how you look at it, ie as a glass half full or half empty is 23% or 22%. :^0
Think you should do a refresher course before you go on mastermind!Maybe you should re read the betfair premium charge announcement in the service section.Before you show yourself up again I'll just point out 2 key points to you
1.Premium charge is calculated at 20% of your gross profit not 20% of your profit after implied commission
2.Commission generated is fixed at 3% of the entire market losses.
Don't take this the wrong way but you really should not be portraying yourself as an expert when you have no clue what you are on about.
1.Premium charge is calculated at 20% of your gross profit not 20% of your profit after implied commission
2.Commission generated is fixed at 3% of the entire market losses.
Don't take this the wrong way but you really should not be portraying yourself as an expert when you have no clue what you are on about.
TOLMI. The way I read below,
Commission generated = (Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where
Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
IS...Commission generated is your 50 divided by 2 = 25 which is the amount that is ignored in this case before your charged the premiun charge.
There is no implied commission in this case ie 3%
So we're just left with your 1000 win less your Commission generated 25 which is 2.5% with a further 17.5% to be deducted given a total of 200
Which means you will have paid 17.5% pc + your 5% commission giving you a total of 225 charge on the winning bet of a 1000 and a total charge of 22.5%
Not the 220 figure your claiming OR that maximun charges are 22% .........Cheers
Commission generated = (Commission + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where
Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
IS...Commission generated is your 50 divided by 2 = 25 which is the amount that is ignored in this case before your charged the premiun charge.
There is no implied commission in this case ie 3%
So we're just left with your 1000 win less your Commission generated 25 which is 2.5% with a further 17.5% to be deducted given a total of 200
Which means you will have paid 17.5% pc + your 5% commission giving you a total of 225 charge on the winning bet of a 1000 and a total charge of 22.5%
Not the 220 figure your claiming OR that maximun charges are 22% .........Cheers
Ah YUMMY....What do you want us to debate?
The next RACE OF THE CENTURY between Kauto Star and Denman
or maybe paddy next MONSTER payout that never IS. :^0
I've never seen a Irish Forum so subdued 1 day after Cheltenham
and only hours away from a Ireland Triple Crown WIN
and on the eve of the first flat meeting of the year at the Curragh. ;)
Come on YUMMY tell us a joke or something
or give us a horse to look forward too for the FLAT season...Cheers
The next RACE OF THE CENTURY between Kauto Star and Denman
or maybe paddy next MONSTER payout that never IS. :^0
I've never seen a Irish Forum so subdued 1 day after Cheltenham
and only hours away from a Ireland Triple Crown WIN
and on the eve of the first flat meeting of the year at the Curragh. ;)
Come on YUMMY tell us a joke or something
or give us a horse to look forward too for the FLAT season...Cheers
Implied commission is only allowed for the losing bets you might of had.
ie, Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
Since there is none the Generated Commission is only the Commission paid % by 2....Cheers
ie, Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
Since there is none the Generated Commission is only the Commission paid % by 2....Cheers
What is this premium charge all about and when does it arise
When the Premium Charge was first put in place the commission generated figure was your own commission rate plus the commission rate of the person who matched your bet divided by 2.This meant that if your bet was matched by a person whose commission rate was 5% you got a far higher commission generated figue than if your bet was matched by someone on 2%.
However users seemed to find that their commission generated figure was most often showing a commission rate of the person matching the bet of less than 3% as obviously the lower commission users are normally the regular bigger players annd therefore match a high percentage of bets.This seemed to cause a lot of distrust among Premium Charge payers as they were unable to see until the Premium Charge calculation came out the amount of the commission generated.In order to simplify this a rate of implied commission of 3% was decided as part of the commission generated calculation figure.
Blessington as commission is only paid by you on winning bets your theory would mean that the commission generated figure wouuld always be your rate of commission divided by 2.There would be no need for an implied commission rate.I actually made an error in my first calculation.The premium charge should have been 160 which would have meant an effective total charge rate of 21% or 210.
Harry... premium charge is a means by which Betfair get more money out oF regular winning punters than just the commission paid.If you satisfy certain conditions you can end up paying up to roughly 20% of your total gross profits to betfair.I think the original school of thought in the betfair business model was that users would keep winning and losing money from/to each other and betfair would keep winning with the commission.When they found that there were some sharper minds out there than they thought who were winning substantial sums even after commission the premium charge was devised to extricate more money from these winning users.
However users seemed to find that their commission generated figure was most often showing a commission rate of the person matching the bet of less than 3% as obviously the lower commission users are normally the regular bigger players annd therefore match a high percentage of bets.This seemed to cause a lot of distrust among Premium Charge payers as they were unable to see until the Premium Charge calculation came out the amount of the commission generated.In order to simplify this a rate of implied commission of 3% was decided as part of the commission generated calculation figure.
Blessington as commission is only paid by you on winning bets your theory would mean that the commission generated figure wouuld always be your rate of commission divided by 2.There would be no need for an implied commission rate.I actually made an error in my first calculation.The premium charge should have been 160 which would have meant an effective total charge rate of 21% or 210.
Harry... premium charge is a means by which Betfair get more money out oF regular winning punters than just the commission paid.If you satisfy certain conditions you can end up paying up to roughly 20% of your total gross profits to betfair.I think the original school of thought in the betfair business model was that users would keep winning and losing money from/to each other and betfair would keep winning with the commission.When they found that there were some sharper minds out there than they thought who were winning substantial sums even after commission the premium charge was devised to extricate more money from these winning users.
Blessington 20 Mar 14:12
Ah YUMMY....What do you want us to debate?
The next RACE OF THE CENTURY between Kauto Star and Denman
or maybe paddy next MONSTER payout that never IS.
I've never seen a Irish Forum so subdued 1 day after Cheltenham
[i]and only hours away from a Ireland Triple Crown WIN [/i]
some fking bok that bless
Ah YUMMY....What do you want us to debate?
The next RACE OF THE CENTURY between Kauto Star and Denman
or maybe paddy next MONSTER payout that never IS.
I've never seen a Irish Forum so subdued 1 day after Cheltenham
[i]and only hours away from a Ireland Triple Crown WIN [/i]
some fking bok that bless
i heard mr dineen took 100k out of big bucks so all the ranting raveing about masterminded seems point less
i hear you lost a major shareholder lately winston! some fella called fruity! who!s next in line for the throne? by all accounts wit the reports from fella associates dont think they will be queuing up for the job!
TOLMI....Your still wrong. :0
Blessington as commission is only paid by you on winning bets your theory would mean that the commission generated figure wouuld always be your rate of commission divided by 2.There would be no need for an implied commission rate.I actually made an error in my first calculation.The premium charge should have been 160 which would have meant an effective total charge rate of 21% or 210.
............................................................................
Generated Commission is made up of my..
Winning Commission PLUS 3% of any other losing bets in other markets. divided by 2.
The only reason why there was no need for implieded commission in your example was because there was only 1 winning market.
It has nothing to do with the layer who matched my winning bet.
And in this example on a 1000 win you will face 225 in DEDUCTIONS not the 210 you claim......Cheers
Blessington as commission is only paid by you on winning bets your theory would mean that the commission generated figure wouuld always be your rate of commission divided by 2.There would be no need for an implied commission rate.I actually made an error in my first calculation.The premium charge should have been 160 which would have meant an effective total charge rate of 21% or 210.
............................................................................
Generated Commission is made up of my..
Winning Commission PLUS 3% of any other losing bets in other markets. divided by 2.
The only reason why there was no need for implieded commission in your example was because there was only 1 winning market.
It has nothing to do with the layer who matched my winning bet.
And in this example on a 1000 win you will face 225 in DEDUCTIONS not the 210 you claim......Cheers
If you read what I said about the commission rate of the user who matched your bet you would see that I was saying that was the way the Premium Charge was originally framed.I then said this was changed.The operation of the Premium Charge as I outlined was explained to me separately by 2 different Betfair people.I will examine my statement for last week to see if there your method arrives at the figure calculated by Betfair.
TOLMI...When it comes to the Premiun Charges I wouldn't rely too much on what a Betfair employee or TWO told you. :^0 Flip sake they have been a disaster on the General Forum have you read Pythia and he claimed to be a senior manager in Betfair?
The only way to understand as you say is to paid it and then work backwards.
Base on that by far the most knowlegible on the subject I came across was EDDIE THE EAGLE a golf pundit. He can give you the FORMULA for when you in Premiun Charge land and back a bunch of losers how much you now can win next time without facing the premiun charge again.
I can do it roughly but I wouldn't bet on my life on the final figure I reached for that.
I think its (Loss + 3%) x (100 divided by 17.5) ..... Says he as the soccer season reaches its climax and will find out soon enough how close I was.
But I'm a 100% that 225 is what a guy would paid in our example and not your 210. B-) .Cheers
PS...You wouldn't happen to know the formula would you?
The only way to understand as you say is to paid it and then work backwards.
Base on that by far the most knowlegible on the subject I came across was EDDIE THE EAGLE a golf pundit. He can give you the FORMULA for when you in Premiun Charge land and back a bunch of losers how much you now can win next time without facing the premiun charge again.
I can do it roughly but I wouldn't bet on my life on the final figure I reached for that.
I think its (Loss + 3%) x (100 divided by 17.5) ..... Says he as the soccer season reaches its climax and will find out soon enough how close I was.
But I'm a 100% that 225 is what a guy would paid in our example and not your 210. B-) .Cheers
PS...You wouldn't happen to know the formula would you?
Okay TOCKY and WIN SP....this is your MOMENT.
How much does a guy who is liable to Premiun Charges pay off a winning bet of 1000 if that was his only bet of the week.
GO ON! Put it to auld BLESS. :^0
PS....I presume you guys know what premiun charges are and are already paying it every week. :0
How much does a guy who is liable to Premiun Charges pay off a winning bet of 1000 if that was his only bet of the week.
GO ON! Put it to auld BLESS. :^0
PS....I presume you guys know what premiun charges are and are already paying it every week. :0
I am none the wiser as to weather he did go 11/10 or not . But surely one would imagine laying MM at evens would have the same desired effect as 11/10 . Cant imagne the man being a fool , so gonna assume he wasent going 11/10 when he dident have to . I stand to be corrected on this and if he was then ...... regardles of the result ..... etc etc
I know someone who met Dineen on the morning of the Champion Hurdle. Asked him if he'd heard anything about the days racing. Dineen told him Binocular was supposed to be flying after a break and to get on him. So this guy heads off and promptly had £500 on....................................... Go Native!!!! Good going ehh! You could do a lot worse than watch this guy closely in the betting ring.
Johnny lays and pays...not like yere lord of the rings!!
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