public sector pay

All out marching wont get a reply until nearer midday I suspect.

teachers have some cheek in fairness with all the hols they get

guy on the Radio states there are many of them driving taxis as well as they have so much free time

It depends how long you're in the job, not how good you are.
The gripe I have with public sector pay is that when they started their careers they knew exactly how much they would get after whatever number of years service.
They then decided that they wanted to get more money as people in the private sector were getting more money.
If they thought they could get more money in the private sector, why didn't they leave their jobs in the public sector & take one in the private sector?
Instead they threatened industrial action, Bertie gave them benchmarking & most of them got raises of circa 20% that was not performance or productivity related.
So when you hear a teacher on the Frontline saying they have taken a hit of 7% in take home pay due to the pension levy it must be remembered that in cohoots with Bertie they have previously sc@mmed 20% off the taxpayer.

BTW CD I'm reading Bertie's autobiography.
I didn't buy it, I borrowed it from the library.

I'm just over a third of the way through & although I despise the man, I find my dislike of him waning.
The thing is he actually doesn't stand for anything nor does he have any offensive principles.
If a guy was a racist I wouldn't like him because he was a racist.
If he was a **phobe, likewise.
But he just doesn't stand for anything. He's a moral & principle vacuum.
He gave no reason for entering politics except that his legs were getting a bit tired from palying football. He spent his first 2 terms in the Dail concentrating on getting re-elected, staying in power & doesn't mention policy @ any stage.
He was just a political opportunist who just saw a chance to get elected, took it & then didn't really have any idea what to do when he got there.
He's very much like a dog chasing a car.
If one of them ever actually caught a car, what would they do with it?

The full on defined benefit pensions granted to public sector employees cost approximately 20 times the pension paid on retirement.

So lets say a teacher retires on final salary of 80K, they are granted a tax free lump sum of 120K (1.5 times final salary) plus a pension of half salary, 40K, for each year until they die, with an attaching spouses pension of half the teachers pension payable from date of death of teacher.

The open market cost for each public sector employees pension package would be roughly 20 times the final pension. In the case above that would be 800K. All guaranteed, no risk to the employee.

Madness.

:_|

teacher in my local has 5 houses/flats, runs a shiop in town, and pulls over 68K FROM TEACHING, DISGRACE jOE!!!

striking will solve it, well done.

This has always been the case but nobody wanted these jobs during the celtic tiger.

Did nobody ever tell the government or its employees to save your pennies for a rainy day like my mother did when I was a kid?
One of the greatest ironies of the ultimate mess that was the Celtic tiger must surely be bungling Berties government handing out billions of interest on SSIA`s, to encourage savings. But not bothering to do so for our country.
We created one hell of a monster.

Gant that mantra means nothing. We are in the now as our leaders like to tell us.

Ireland is broke and needs to scale back salaries and benefits pronto. Across the board for all.

5 mile tailback going into Newry today, f*ckin **s

Trent if he caught the car he'd slip a brown envelope under the seat cover imo.

A woman picketing was interviewed on Newstalk and said they would be out again on the 2nd.
GET BACK TO WORK YOU FOOLS.

Teachers are seeking a two day action next time round on a monday/tuesday or thursday/friday...many of them have shopping in new york planned for this weekend...be able to top up their air mile points as well!

Reducing public service pay by 1.3 billion because we are 'broke' yet billions handed over to Anglo! - the strike is about fairness. We have a rent allowance system paying millions to landlords while our public housing is chronically underfunded, we have a taoiseach paid more than the Chancellor of Germany and we have a health service being run by a politician without a party whose ideaology is to privatise the health service to make devlopers richer at the expense of the patient. Also for every euro the govt cuts from a public servants pay, the real cut is only approx 35c as between PAYE,PRSI, Supernnuation, Pension levies, Health levies and income levies the state already takes 65c of each euro of public sector pay. However the media does not like these facts to get in the way of their ill-informed witchhunt.

it most certainly does mean something tony , i chose my job for the security simple as that .

the private sector was giving two fingers to the public sector as they pocketed large sums of money, and huge profits in the good days.

now that times are not so good they want to see the pain spread.

how very irish, i will enjoy the good times , but you can share the bad times with me.

cant dither now , have my 2 hours on the picket line at 2 , at least the strike will be a show of discontent at those cnuts that got us into this mess , the rest just complain and bend over.

At least it wasn't a vocation for you like most of your colleagues tobywong.

the days of vocation went out the window decades ago tony , keep up ffs

ffs indeed. Hope you dont wear out too much shoe leather toby.

:D

dont intend staying there too long tony

Your pay and benefits are way out of line with the current reality of our finances toby.

Think the job security will be next to go.

A sad state of affairs that Fianna Fail have caused all of this mess.

:(

what about all the benchmarking that public servants pocketed comparing themselves to the private sectorin the good times ???...now those same private sector workers are unemployed-down 50% more in some cases ........is this not the first part of downward benchmarking for public servants .?????

The government is saving a fortune today on wages and utility bills maybe one day strike a month might be the way forward.
A few friends of mine that worked in construction can't believe the low wages some people work for.
The government minds are made up and no strike will change it.

you have no idea of my circumstances or pay tony so mind your own fking business

You (singular) are right toby. I was talking about you (plural).

I cant underrstand people knocking the public sector, people who had the chance to get a government paid job didnt because of choice and earn far more in the private sector.
Now the country is gone downhill the same people are criticising the public sector because of their conditions of work
Nothing was a secret ever , those people could have got a job in the public sector

The public sector was all for benchmarking in the boom times; well benchmarking has a habit of biting you on the arse when you're not looking.

I hope it**es down on the strikers. Anyone, public or private sector, who is out striking in the current jobs environment doesn't deserve a job.

if it**es down ill be heading home to a nice hot fire :D

macrocky not knocking nobody.

Just simple math.

Tony i know people in the public sector who bought all round them, got paid 30 odd euro a hour , foreign hols, these people scoffed at the public sector.
Same people have lost their jobs now and are trying to join the public sector
Some people love to play both sides

went down to be told that tui called off their picket as they had made their point , luvly jubbly

bad day to be marching tobywong lol

Macrocky, Public sector is now a closed shop with jobs embargo.

Hope the go again maybe for a few weeks, about time somebody took on the unions, all living in dreamland. A few weeks without pay and we'll see how their appetite is

great idea deise , im all for it

People have been asking for months, they took on extra people in welfare to deal with increased workload as far as i knowPeople are always retiring , there is always a few jobs going

It certainly makes great financial sense macrocky.

There will be plenty of vacancies with all the disgruntled public sector workers rushing off to Ryanair to enjoy some of Michaels legendary job satisfaction.

Apparently lots of IR guys havent been relaced , they have the highest drop out rate, the government are also paying off all public sector employees pre 1983 , they have lots of rights and perks, the old civil servants
The government saved stacks of money today, id say secretly they dont mind a few more blank pay days lol
Id say brian lenihan and brian cowen have their mind made up

Its the wastage thats crippling the country tony imo, there is so much overspending and stuff like the water leaking from pipes, the voting machines, paying idle hse staff in idle hospitals. Apparently they put valves on the wrong way in the cork sewerage scheme.

I dont think they should hit the lower paid as it must be worth money to leave home and do a days work.If they hit the minimum wage they should cut welfare

Funny I was feeling sorry for the public sector until Gloria Victus revealed they are paying tax at a marginal rate of 65%.Maybe someone should tell Blair Horan about this!

anyone watching tv3 news all minister arriving in mercs why cant they be transported in a ordinary car like a mondeo or avensis

I without reservation support the workers today in their day of action .This FF led shower that are responsible along with their builder and banker mates for the state the country is in want workers to clean up the mess by taking more and more cuts . I dont like this Public/Private divide but it has to be said that the vast majority of those that benefitted from the so called "boom" operated in the private sector.
And no , I dont work in the Public Service .

Yes its all the banks and builders fault. zzzzzzzzzzzz

As Roy Keane would say, boring, they'd bore you to death with their moaning.

The construction industry contributed 52 billion into the exchequer over the last few years. Public/Civil servants were more than happy to take this money when it was being paid into the exchequer. Didn't hear anyone complaining then. But now that the construction sector has gone, the moaning and wailing is laughable from the public sector blaming banks and builders.... No moaning when they were gorging themselves at the tax payers expenses.

Value for money has never been an oft heard phrase in the public service.

Diamond Joe, you are a resevoir of useless information. You never cease to amaze me with your ignorance. ;)

Reservoir, Gothchee. Obviously public service education has failed you :^0.

Let us not forget that the public service enjoyed the celtic tiger as well through benchmarking.Cailindeas8 made a very valid point re the massive payout on public sector pensions,truely crazy. It would make u sick looking at them on news saying they're on the breadline.Average pay for garda being over 50K and many teachers on over 60K.Most guys that became gardai in my class were far from the brightest but they have now on the pigs back with the fallback of massive pension.Linehan has to CUT these crazy pensions and cut their wages on Dec 9.

i only saw a handful bothering with the soggy boards, fair weather strikers imo

Anyone who respects the mumblings of Roy Keane can't be taken too seriously. Joe, you would be better off keeping your mouth shut and be thought a fool instead opening it and removing any doubt. ;)

You are failing to argue the point Gotchee. Picking up a vague quote that has nothing to do with the point. Boring zzzzzzz, same old boring stuff :^0

As far as i know anyone on basic pay with less than full service couldnt afford to retire early, the pension isnt that great--its only if u have your 40 years and have been on 60k +
Teachers areent on 60k unless they are doing stacks of overtime
Gardai can earn big if they want to do OT of which there is plenty of oppurtunity

Great support from the public today. Glad to see that just like the recent Lisbon treaty, BF Irish Forum not representative of the public mood.

i saw no example of public sympathy today, are u imagining this?

Great public support out there today, I only heard one derogatory remark. It's a pity so many people on here are misinformed.

Its all berties fault.. **er bought his elections and today there is a deep divide between us. Well done Berite. The countries heading straight for the wall.

Benchmarking was a crazy idea but it only benefitted higher paid Public Servants . It done nothing for the normal basic grades . Macrocky is correct - for your average public sector worker on say 700 euro at the max of his grade he would have to work a full 40 years to get a pension of 350 euro . Hardly massive money given that the non contributory old age pension is 230 euro .

Great public support out there today, I only heard one derogatory remark. It's a pity so many people on here are misinformed
Mustn`t have been your picket I passed so! :^0

A big part of the problem were the extra's tha were introduced, for example teachers get an extra 1800 euro or so per year for yard duty. Before that it used to be part of their job. Then you have things such a guy working in the council get 10 euro per animal extra if they have to pick up and bury a dead animal. Thats along with their starting wage of 14 euro per hour, approx 1100 per year if they must carry a mobile phone, about 300 if the carry a flashing light in their car etc.

Isn't it interesting that the Unions are willing to sit down and discuss all sorts of reforms now that the government has put its foot down and is insisting on cuts. These guys (O'Connor, McLoone, Doran, et al really ought to be locked up) Years spent denying that there were any inefficiencies in the public service but as soon as they see the whites of the government's eyes they concede what we've known for donkey's years.
I honestly feel sorry for many hard working prublic servants - sure the civil service has plenty of deadweights but most public servants I know are dedicated hard working people. They should not be blaming the government - the blame in my book lies squarely with their own Unions. Their performance, facilitated by the Quisling Ahern, has been grossly irresponsible and has lead their members up a hill from where they are going to take a big fall.
Surely to God there is more to being a Union hack than demanding more and more money while refusing any increased flexibility/productivity. The role of the Unions is aparently to look after the interests of their members. How does it serve members interests to drive their salaries to unsustainable levels? How many people are on the dole this morning because their Unions negotiated pay agreements that cannot now be honoured? If we had anything resembling a competent government the Unions would not have been allowed to run riot but that does not excuse their performance and i for one sincerely hop that Cowen does not bottle this one. The Unions need to be put in their place for once and for all and then ordinary workers need to be a lot more particular about the characters they elect to senior positions within their Unions because the calibre of muppet leading the major Unions at the moment is every bit as useless as what we have in government. What was David Beggs solution to the current crisis?????? Stretch out cuts for twice as long as planned and then be 'more imaginative'!!! What a clown.

Some degree of consumption needs to be maintained though Alec. Imagination is required.

These boys aint got it imo.

One thing this debate has shown is that the heads of the Unions are the lowest form going. Jeez and we thought the politicians were lowlifes, these guys are out on their own. Their is no punishment fit for O Connor, he is like sometihng out of the dark ages

CD is is correct - imagination is required but it's hardly constructive to leave it at that. The unions - all of them - have been hogtied to FF for the last 20 years - and their mucky paws are all over every poxy disastrous bonanza Bertie and his Merry Morons have seen fit to award the public service and many of those on welfare. Now the sh!t has hit the fan and the unions are mouthing off as if they had no hand act or part in the collapsing this economy.
The unions have had their day - they have nothing to contribute - for heaven's sake most of them sound like idiots (O'Connor), children (Sherlock) or completely deranged headcases (Paul Sweeney, Blair Horan) Their only response to this economic crisis? Strike. Things are a bit too serious now to be tolerating that sort of petulant nonsense. Cowen needs to face these idiots down for once and for all and if he hasn't the b@lls to do it he needs to get out of the road and let someone else have a go.

i would agree lads , unions are screwed and fighting for their future , i pay 43 monthly to mine and that will be the first thing i will cut to replenish the inevitable cut to my wages, but unions do have a purpose, of that there is no doubt.

there is a lot of wastage in the ps, but it is prevalent in some departments more than others and everyone knows who these are.

as a frontline worker i resent being part of a whole public sector , there is a huge difference in some earning 20k and someone earning 150k.

do the wage cut , and pare back the bloated where it exists , there needs to be job cuts and the unions need to let it happen, reform is required.

nurses , teachers etc are the easy targets , but other depts need serious reform.

John Carr into leader on 170000 ayear plus expenses and hasnt don e a stroke over the last 10 years or so as he cosied up to Bertie and th e boys in a cosy little arrangement! I mean 170k for doing exactly what?

The Gotchee 24 Nov 22:00
Great public support out there today, I only heard one derogatory remark. It's a pity so many people on here are misinformed.

LOL, sounds like McCloone on News at 6 yesterday, he was adamant none of the people backed up for 5 miles outside of Newry yesterday going to spend their money in another jurdiscation were public workers. Deluded if you think there is not bad sentiment out there towards the strike. It's a proper disgrace, wait for the IMF to arrive, 50% cuts for the public then, keep listening to the Unions. Cowen will have to do a thatcher on it.

The problem is that not only have the Unions managed to squeeze fortunes out of government - but they have fought tooth and nail to prevent the sort of reform that would have addressed the issues of waste and deadwood within the PS that gives the PS as a whole a bad name. If I was in the PS (and I am married to a teacher) I would be disgusted at the practices that the Unions defend across the board. Blair Horan defended the half an hour that civil servants continue to get to take their cheques to the bank despite the fact that his members have been paid electronically for years! If the Unions stopped defending the indefensible (allowances for loss of overtime while on holidays???), stopped protecting timeservers and incompetents, people would have more respect for the entire PS and Civil service.

Word on the street of a possible deal..
1. All Public Servants to take 2 weeks unpaid leave per year for next 2 years.
2. Cut in loads of allowances.
3. Core working time from 8am to 8pm i.e. overtime at normal time rates during these hours.

Don't know how 1. would work with teachers who only work half the year as it is. Maybe get them to work a couple of 'extra' weeks!
2 and 3 will be strongly opposed by the 'Frontline Alliance' or whatever the cops and nurses call themselves now.