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insideinfo
07 Nov 09 12:14
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Date Joined: 03 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 2,170 | Blogger: insideinfo's blog
There seems to be a greater number of tinkers and rip off merchants operating at Down Royal than at other Irish tracks so just going to keep an eye on todays %'s on this thread.Should be interesting.

First race 12:55 a scandalous 163.58%
Pause Switch to Standard View Down Royal Bookmaker %'s Saturday.
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Report insideinfo November 7, 2009 12:48 PM GMT
130 142.78%
Report hammy November 7, 2009 1:00 PM GMT
Maybe,their southern counterparts should take a leaf out of their book,and stop betting to damn all profit.
Report insideinfo November 7, 2009 1:10 PM GMT
200 148.89%

hammy i dont think the on-course punters in the North are anywhere near as clued in as those in the South and i dont think they would be betting at those sort of margins.
Report hammy November 7, 2009 1:30 PM GMT
Maybe the northern bookies are more savvy than the southern ones.
Report insideinfo November 7, 2009 2:40 PM GMT
230 117.59%
300 109.41%
330 128.89%
Report all over November 7, 2009 2:47 PM GMT
get urself a licence
Report insideinfo November 7, 2009 3:08 PM GMT
400 138.36%

Surely i dont need a licence to comment on %'s the same way i dont need a jockeys licence to comment on a bad ride.
Report Kelly November 7, 2009 3:32 PM GMT
Rip off percentages most races . Mind you about half the people there today are not regular racegoers , so would not know how to see whether they were getting value .

One horse today summed it up for me , not sure what price it started , saw it at 66/1 on projected SP screen . The horse ( Trotsky ) pulled up yesterday , could only win today if the other 7 fell -- and it did not itself . It was 1000 all day on here , so any bookie who laid a tenner of it only had to have 70p on to cover himself . Horse should have been 200/1 minimum with books .

Nothing new about the situation . Seldom any different .
Report Frank The Tank November 7, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
My personal favourite

Down royal (IRE) Result
18 Feb 2004
« 5:00 ARDMORE ADVERTISING I.N.H. FLAT RACE

20 ran TIME 3m 57.10s (slow by 19.10s) Total SP 224%
Report insideinfo November 7, 2009 4:58 PM GMT
Exactly my point Kelly,the crowd up there consists mostly of clueless idiots running about with pints in hand wearing tatty suits which they think they look cool in.John Stuart and co are only too glad to accept their business and arb it back on here.
Report BigLayer November 8, 2009 1:29 PM GMT
Just shows wot u know insideinfo, john stuart doesn't even have a pitch at downroyal. Stop complaining about the bookies up north. Maybe they are the smarter books, getting them in a bit softer with a higher percentage. How do bookies down south expect to make a profit long term betting to 105-115% books consistently cosidering the expenses & levy etc.
Report insideinfo November 8, 2009 1:40 PM GMT
He did the last time i was up there but i still stand by what i say.
Report all over November 8, 2009 1:42 PM GMT
he doesnt bet there
Report insideinfo November 8, 2009 1:48 PM GMT
Maybe not now all over,but he used to.
Report rose of the shires November 8, 2009 5:18 PM GMT
Plenty of us kept waiting for payout on the bumper yesterday for around 40 minutes after the ALRIGHT. One bookmaker had gone "missing" - no money to pay? - and wouldn't face the winning punters. Someone suggested that he had offered to pay at Navan today before disappearing. Getting dark, everyone else packed up, and nobody from the course management to help or advise. In the end I was paid out by another bookie ( not his fault but the crowd of punters were very unhappy and some had taken a drink or two...) and those with bigger sums to collect were not paid. No apologies or explanations either.
I love Irish racing, but have never had this happen in England. How can this be acceptable?
Report Cmon the Town November 8, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
The two NI tracks are JOKE racecourses, I hate them, glorified point-to-point places is all they are.
Report theboyfrommatebeleland November 8, 2009 7:11 PM GMT
I was at Down Royal yesterday.The faciliities are magnificent.There is a new stand which catered comfortably for 1000 diners on the ground floor and about 500 on the second floor.The old stand(about 15 years old) was full.The atmosphere was terrific.It is a grade one stiff galloping track.Everyone I met was enjoying themselves except a tired and maudling Alastair Down.The problem with the bookies is not simply a northern one.They are the same bookies operating in the Freestate.If you think it is a point to point track ask the jockeys and bookies who will tell you different
Report slickster November 8, 2009 7:15 PM GMT
bookies should be FORCED to abide by the general rule of thumb of 2% per runner. robbing gullible people blind atevery meeting. then if you walk up waving 2 50 notes in front of their face they quiver, tell you their "full", dont lay you a peanut and have the cheek to CUT THE PRICE!!!!! cowards.
Report countychampions November 8, 2009 7:54 PM GMT
name him rose
Report Kelly November 8, 2009 7:58 PM GMT
The sooner the bookies have to declare their "lay limit " the better . Think it works that way in Australia ( although the Aussie bookies have little effective competition ) .

And I would allot pitches on the basis "the bigger the statutory lay limit " , the further up the line you are . That would sort out the men from the boys. "Lay limit" to be declared before racing commences .

For years I watched basically insolvent bookies pitching up , scraping together a few quid , hopefully with a result in the first . Need to post a bond a must .
Report all over November 8, 2009 9:48 PM GMT
the bookmaker in question paid everyone in full
Report wee sammy November 9, 2009 11:30 AM GMT
By Cheque ! what odds it clears.
Report all over November 9, 2009 11:38 AM GMT
1.01
Report rose of the shires November 9, 2009 2:24 PM GMT
everyone might have been paid, but there was a very long delay for people after the last race, some had buses to catch and absolutely no explanations and no apologies - hardly the way things should be...
Report kavvie November 9, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
id say there will be a lot of bookies dropping out of the on course game..unreal amount of favs winning for last while..very few of tem in limerick today..id say the ones that stayed away are glad!
Report all over November 9, 2009 2:51 PM GMT
the bookmaker obviously had a terrible day and he went to other bookmakers to change cheques 4 him
Report BigLayer November 9, 2009 2:58 PM GMT
But surely all over, any bookmaker standing at a pitch should only lay the public to the amount of cash he has in the bag. downright disgrace he took a chance on the last race with no cash to back it up if he lost. maybe he should lower his liabilty prior to racing.
how could any average joe soap punter have confidence placing a bet the next time, not knowing whether or not he'll get paid out if he wins.
Report by purpose November 9, 2009 3:01 PM GMT
Real easy game. Kelly, Slickster and Co should give it a go. Some real pearls of wisdom there.It would be right up your alley.
Report all over November 9, 2009 3:01 PM GMT
as far as i know a few owed him and they didnt pay him after the last hence he ran out of cash
Report Kelly November 9, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
By purpose , having been refused bets continually by bookies ( starting more than 50 years ago the first time ) I think we are entitled to take a rheumy view point on some of them . No one says it is easy , if it were there would be a queue for pitches ( which there will NEVER be again ) .

No desire here to be an on-course bookie , if I want I can lay a horse on here without any trouble , although unlike those you are sticking up for I need to have the liability up front and paid for .

In the old days most of the bookies were characters , and I had a lot of time for a good % of them . But those operating nowadays are essentially bean counters , and quite often they do not actually represent themselves , either in character or in monetary terms .

Overall punters are far more clued in nowadays than they used to be ( apart from the pros ) , and some of the forumites on here are more than able to formulate sensible and well informed handles on possible outcomes of races .
Report soapp November 9, 2009 5:20 PM GMT
As a regular at the track, I must say I have great respect for the layers rather than the mechanical robber (tote). What you see is what you get, and as Kavvie says results are dreadful for them at the moment.
I back the the jolly favs most of the time on track and certainly have been having a good run.
When not at the track I tend to lay for small money on here and get wiped out more often than not. I had to top up my betfair a/c again today for another ton.
Report by purpose November 10, 2009 10:45 AM GMT
Kelly,Here was me hoping you were going revitalise the betting ring but instead you want to remain one of the faceless ones.If only you could become a trend setter.
Report keen leader November 11, 2009 9:59 PM GMT
most people know that percentages are a load of rubbish these days.

anyway as a linked development, at todays agm of the bookmakers association, the key decision was that a vote was taken and all present, bar one bookmaker, agreed to implement a plan of action which entails that no bookmaker standing on a track in ireland during the month of december will use either of the betting exchanges.

this policy may well work at the christmas festivals, the union policing within the bookmaking fraternity could be tricky. the one dissenting voice, think enniskillen!, will be forced to toe the line.

while some punters will see this decision as a negative outcome, leading to higher percentages, at the current rate of attrition, the ring was about to shrink and what would have been left were the machine layers and the reps/partners of the big multiples. In the long term, the viability of a number of important independent track operators may be saved if this measure of cutting the cord with the machine succeeds.

apparently the next target of the association, is to try and stop the tv pictures from many of the minor meetings hitting the screens via atr, that could be a battle they are not going to win.

although such a policy could halt the dwindling attendances, the tracks would lose critical revenue from sis, and they are unlikely to risk a guaranteed cash cow for the gamble of a potential increase in footfall.
Report Kelly November 11, 2009 11:00 PM GMT
Keen Leader , the proof of the pudding will be in the eating . The fact that most of the bookies on course will appear to be operating without reference to Betfair ( mainly ) will be a pipe dream . All those representing off- course activities ( shops ) will be in constant touch with head office , no-one is going to shackle anyone in head office from pressing profitable buttons .

Cant understand the logic in the ATR thing . I can only assume that some of the bookies think that limiting pictures will increase the numbers going to the (smaller ? ) tracks . Would their masters in head office agree to no SIS pictures in their offices --same argument applies there as regards affecting racecourse attendance . On the contrary I suspect that lack of Irish racing on ATR would diminish attendances / interest in the total horsey package .

As far as I know the revenue from ATR to the smaller tracks represents a guaranteed 500 ( paying ) customers through the gate each meeting . No way that would be compensated for by higher attendaces because the public could not see the action on TV . Now if the bookies between them stumped up the x euros per meeting as compensation I might start to believe their mantra ---but they wont , guarantee you that !
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