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Doing some research on racing syndicates and I'm trying to get an idea of what the expected ROI actually is, both at amateur level and at the professional level (the Middleham Park / Highclere type operations).
What do people in these typically expect back per year — 5%, 10%, 20%? Or do most shares run at a loss once training fees and deductions are taken out? I've read plenty of the "it's a hobby, not an investment" articles but I'm after real figures.
Really appreciate any input, and if anyone's done any research on this I'd love to see it.
What do people in these typically expect back per year — 5%, 10%, 20%? Or do most shares run at a loss once training fees and deductions are taken out? I've read plenty of the "it's a hobby, not an investment" articles but I'm after real figures.
Really appreciate any input, and if anyone's done any research on this I'd love to see it.
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From speaking to those involved you might get tickets in owners and trainers once in a blue moon, otherwise you are simply subsidising someone else's hobby/ego trip. One big con, the lot of them.
Sorry i shouldn't have add this is for Betting syndicates.
I doubt you will get real figures.
My experience about 20 years ago
Racing club leased a few horses. The deal was we paid training costs and got a percentage (50% ?) of prizemoney. One horse won three races for 100k. We got zero. Trainer said registered owner gets prizemoney.
Took a 1/12 share in a horse. Trained for more than a year "doing well on the gallops", "had a little setback". I had bought the Racing Post and stopped at traffic lights (on red) opened the results. Horse had run its first race (was not told it was running) "late progress, broke leg, dead". Contacted by the agent. "I suppose you heard what happened" "I have another horse and I have a share for you". I declined the offer.
My hobby is pedigree analysis (see foalmare.com).
My opinion is people in racing know a bit about feeding and training but almost without exception know almost nothing about pedigrees.
If you have a horse with a bad pedigree it does not matter about training skills or care of the horse. You still have a bad horse.
A good trainer is one who can get rid of his bad horses quickly, and replace them with other horses.
Eventually he will end up with a stable of reasonable horses (by process of elimination).
I have two mares, and they are in foal.
One mare was "free" i.e. her mother was carrying her "in utero" when I bought her mother.
The other mare cost me Euro 1,750. She had been through two auctions and did not even get one bid of the minimum Euro 1,000. Her sire has sired the winners of eight Breeders Cup races.
I race a horse in France (mother is mare one) as a 3yo and 4yo. (12 runs: 2 x 1st; 1 x 2nd; 5 x 3rd, 2 x 8th; 1 x 11th)
He earned Euro 49,042. The stud fee for the sire that produced him was afair Euro 5,000.
On 22/07/26 I was offered Euro 50,000 for him and accepted. The money probably arrived today (finally). Weatherbys confirmed they have the money. The horse will run in Australia.
I have a 2yo that will travel to the French trainer areound 7th September. I kept the 2yo in Ireland to mature and grow in cool conditions on good land (boarded out). France was too hot this summer.
I live in Co Tipperary. Why race in France? For every Euro 1.00 prizemoney in Ireland there is Euro 3.55 in France.
From extensive analysis I know that your ROI will be 0% - a 100% loss.
IN the 2010s I analyses a Irish yearling sale (462 yearlings). They were almost without exception big losers financially on the racecourse. About ten made money, and about only 3 or 4 made good racing profit.
Then I analysed 2,109 yearlings at a Tattersalls yearling sale. Once again I learned that bloodstock agents and trainers buying using other people's'money do very badly.
I quoted here many times that 29 of the 30 most expensive lots earned 3.5% of their auction price on the racecourse (a 96.5% loss), and that was before training and other fees. The other raced in Hong King for 10 times the UK prizemoney and he earned about 70% of his auction cost.
If I was bothered I could look up the performance of the tariner who bought 5 or 6 lots at the Irish sale of 462 yearlings.
From my clouded memory I think he spend 120k and they earned 30k, but raced under his training for a few years.
On top of the (-120+30 = 90k) loss the buyers also paid the trainer about 20k a year (at least) x 6 x 2 years = 240k ..... or the owners lost 90k+240k = 330k (these figures are made up but not too far off waht happened)
And the trainer is in your opening post.
My advice if you want to give yourself any chance
(1) get about 12 people to put in a few thousand
(2) buy an inexpensive mare (ask me*)
(3) select a stallion for the amre (ask me*)
(4) baord the mare at a boarding stud
(5) breed the foal
(6) raise the foal
(7) pre-train and then train the foal
How did I opearate?
I downloaded all the approx 2,400 mares on offer at the breeding stock sales (late Nov/early Dec) at Tattersalls UK, Goffs IRE, Arqana FR
I made up a file of the 500 stallions in UK, IRE, FR
I made up 1,200,000 "foals" (2400 x 500 = 1,200,000) and analyses the six generation pedigree of each of the 1,200,000 foals.
I wrote a computer program to do this at speed. It would take more than 24 hours a day for a year to do this visually.
I got a short list of about 600 good "foals".
What mares would breed these good "foals".
I lookd for a mare that would breed about six good foals to six different, young, inexpensive stallions.
As luck would have it I bought the mare for Euro 30k, she had a filly foal, the mare died six weeks after foaling, and the foal died from colic at five months.
This is not the response you expected.
You wanted to know the Return On Investment.
To quote the great Australian breeder Bart Cummings when he went to the doctor as a child (accompanied by his father) and the doctor said Bart's problem will heal in time "we done our money"."
If you invest in syndicates "you done your money".
If they make money the syndicate manager (no management required) will take a hefty fee for himself/herself.
Our racing club manager (the club that won 100k in the 1990s) drve a range rover with the racing club name on the door. Go figure who paid for it.
If you pay someone in racing (bloodstoc agent, trainer) they will pay themselves with your money.
For example, if you say you want to buy a horse.
You will be asked how much you have to spend (say 50k).
There is nothing to stop the agent going to a breeder ewith a horse woth 10k, hetting him to put it in a sale, and he will arrange to bid it up to 49k and he will then buy it for 50k.
The breeder gets 10k (its value) plus 50% of the excess (50-10 x .50) = 10k + 20k = 30k.
The bloodstock agent gets 50% of the excess (50-10 x .50) = 20k and he charges you 5% commission on 50k.
You have paid 50k+2.5k = 52.5k for a horse worth 10k+0.5k = 10.5k.
Do your own choice of horse, you own buying (you might need to get someone with an account to bid "to your limit or under"), choose your own trainer, race the horse where they pay the most prizemoney.
My experience about 20 years ago
Racing club leased a few horses. The deal was we paid training costs and got a percentage (50% ?) of prizemoney. One horse won three races for 100k. We got zero. Trainer said registered owner gets prizemoney.
Took a 1/12 share in a horse. Trained for more than a year "doing well on the gallops", "had a little setback". I had bought the Racing Post and stopped at traffic lights (on red) opened the results. Horse had run its first race (was not told it was running) "late progress, broke leg, dead". Contacted by the agent. "I suppose you heard what happened" "I have another horse and I have a share for you". I declined the offer.
My hobby is pedigree analysis (see foalmare.com).
My opinion is people in racing know a bit about feeding and training but almost without exception know almost nothing about pedigrees.
If you have a horse with a bad pedigree it does not matter about training skills or care of the horse. You still have a bad horse.
A good trainer is one who can get rid of his bad horses quickly, and replace them with other horses.
Eventually he will end up with a stable of reasonable horses (by process of elimination).
I have two mares, and they are in foal.
One mare was "free" i.e. her mother was carrying her "in utero" when I bought her mother.
The other mare cost me Euro 1,750. She had been through two auctions and did not even get one bid of the minimum Euro 1,000. Her sire has sired the winners of eight Breeders Cup races.
I race a horse in France (mother is mare one) as a 3yo and 4yo. (12 runs: 2 x 1st; 1 x 2nd; 5 x 3rd, 2 x 8th; 1 x 11th)
He earned Euro 49,042. The stud fee for the sire that produced him was afair Euro 5,000.
On 22/07/26 I was offered Euro 50,000 for him and accepted. The money probably arrived today (finally). Weatherbys confirmed they have the money. The horse will run in Australia.
I have a 2yo that will travel to the French trainer areound 7th September. I kept the 2yo in Ireland to mature and grow in cool conditions on good land (boarded out). France was too hot this summer.
I live in Co Tipperary. Why race in France? For every Euro 1.00 prizemoney in Ireland there is Euro 3.55 in France.
From extensive analysis I know that your ROI will be 0% - a 100% loss.
IN the 2010s I analyses a Irish yearling sale (462 yearlings). They were almost without exception big losers financially on the racecourse. About ten made money, and about only 3 or 4 made good racing profit.
Then I analysed 2,109 yearlings at a Tattersalls yearling sale. Once again I learned that bloodstock agents and trainers buying using other people's'money do very badly.
I quoted here many times that 29 of the 30 most expensive lots earned 3.5% of their auction price on the racecourse (a 96.5% loss), and that was before training and other fees. The other raced in Hong King for 10 times the UK prizemoney and he earned about 70% of his auction cost.
If I was bothered I could look up the performance of the tariner who bought 5 or 6 lots at the Irish sale of 462 yearlings.
From my clouded memory I think he spend 120k and they earned 30k, but raced under his training for a few years.
On top of the (-120+30 = 90k) loss the buyers also paid the trainer about 20k a year (at least) x 6 x 2 years = 240k ..... or the owners lost 90k+240k = 330k (these figures are made up but not too far off waht happened)
And the trainer is in your opening post.
My advice if you want to give yourself any chance
(1) get about 12 people to put in a few thousand
(2) buy an inexpensive mare (ask me*)
(3) select a stallion for the amre (ask me*)
(4) baord the mare at a boarding stud
(5) breed the foal
(6) raise the foal
(7) pre-train and then train the foal
How did I opearate?
I downloaded all the approx 2,400 mares on offer at the breeding stock sales (late Nov/early Dec) at Tattersalls UK, Goffs IRE, Arqana FR
I made up a file of the 500 stallions in UK, IRE, FR
I made up 1,200,000 "foals" (2400 x 500 = 1,200,000) and analyses the six generation pedigree of each of the 1,200,000 foals.
I wrote a computer program to do this at speed. It would take more than 24 hours a day for a year to do this visually.
I got a short list of about 600 good "foals".
What mares would breed these good "foals".
I lookd for a mare that would breed about six good foals to six different, young, inexpensive stallions.
As luck would have it I bought the mare for Euro 30k, she had a filly foal, the mare died six weeks after foaling, and the foal died from colic at five months.
This is not the response you expected.
You wanted to know the Return On Investment.
To quote the great Australian breeder Bart Cummings when he went to the doctor as a child (accompanied by his father) and the doctor said Bart's problem will heal in time "we done our money"."
If you invest in syndicates "you done your money".
If they make money the syndicate manager (no management required) will take a hefty fee for himself/herself.
Our racing club manager (the club that won 100k in the 1990s) drve a range rover with the racing club name on the door. Go figure who paid for it.
If you pay someone in racing (bloodstoc agent, trainer) they will pay themselves with your money.
For example, if you say you want to buy a horse.
You will be asked how much you have to spend (say 50k).
There is nothing to stop the agent going to a breeder ewith a horse woth 10k, hetting him to put it in a sale, and he will arrange to bid it up to 49k and he will then buy it for 50k.
The breeder gets 10k (its value) plus 50% of the excess (50-10 x .50) = 10k + 20k = 30k.
The bloodstock agent gets 50% of the excess (50-10 x .50) = 20k and he charges you 5% commission on 50k.
You have paid 50k+2.5k = 52.5k for a horse worth 10k+0.5k = 10.5k.
Do your own choice of horse, you own buying (you might need to get someone with an account to bid "to your limit or under"), choose your own trainer, race the horse where they pay the most prizemoney.
mattbarb
Sorry i shouldn't have add this is for Betting syndicates.
You are believing in a fantasy world where people get inside information and make money betting and winning at big odds.
You might read about betting coups in the Racing Post but my guess is most of that is fiction (probably written by bookmakers).
How would a betting syndicate work?
Would one person decide the bet?
I did bet a lot.
You get more back from high odds.
You must have the courage to bet more when the odds are high.
You must work very hard and have an edge. (I could give examples)
You must have patience and not bet until you have an edge.
Not 1 in 1,000 work hard at analysis.
And if you think you work hard I could discuss it with you and prove you don't.
Betting syndicates sounds very exciting.
My guess is it will be full of people who do not want to work but want others to give them money.
Sorry i shouldn't have add this is for Betting syndicates.
You are believing in a fantasy world where people get inside information and make money betting and winning at big odds.
You might read about betting coups in the Racing Post but my guess is most of that is fiction (probably written by bookmakers).
How would a betting syndicate work?
Would one person decide the bet?
I did bet a lot.
You get more back from high odds.
You must have the courage to bet more when the odds are high.
You must work very hard and have an edge. (I could give examples)
You must have patience and not bet until you have an edge.
Not 1 in 1,000 work hard at analysis.
And if you think you work hard I could discuss it with you and prove you don't.
Betting syndicates sounds very exciting.
My guess is it will be full of people who do not want to work but want others to give them money.
I agree with Penzance
In fact one of the best posts I've ever seen on here
Well done Kincsem
In fact one of the best posts I've ever seen on here
Well done Kincsem
My experience
I think the first and most important thing to bear in mind when considering racehorse ownership, whether solely or through a syndicate, it is not an investment, but simply a hobby and any finanical gain requires a lot of luck, although we have had our fair share.
My first (and current) syndicate is Fellowship Racing with several posters on here also involved. We owned Salamanca Lad and Calibos, both as late 2 year olds/3 year olds trained by Dan and Claire Kübler in Lambourn. Bought for 12,000 and 18,000 (guineas) at the Newmarket HIT sales in October 2023 and 2024 respectively, they were sold for 24,000 and 15,000 so a decent gain and a small loss. Salamanca Lad won 3 races (almost 4) and Calibos once.
I had a 10% share in Salamanca Lad and my monthly invoice (in training) was £364.80 inclusive of VAT. A bit less when out in the field during winter. You can claim the VAT from the purchase and monthly training back (as we did). We had a similar deal with Calibos.
I also owned Agouti Bear via Kildare Racing, trained by Danny Murphy at the Curragh (2nd on debut there). Bought for 14,000 euros. Won a race and was placed several times and even ran in a Premier Handicap. Around a total of 21,000 euros in prize money, since sold for breeding and i'm no longer involved.
Our current trainer and filly is George Scott at Newmarket and Lady Of Clover bought as a late 2 year old at the HIT sale in October 2025 for 18,000 guineas. Has run 9 times for us with a 2-0-3 record (won at Lingfield last Saturday) and total prize money of around £11.5K. I only have 5% in this one and my monthly invoice is £189, albeit no VAT for her. She's entered 3 times next week, so fingers crossed for another win to enhance her sale price in October. We only keep them 1 year.
At Fellowship Racing, we get owners passes including for a guest. Free food/refreshments in the owners lounge and program. We have/had dedicated WhatsApp groups to discuss entries and the stable posts photos, videos and updates as to her progress. We also post photos and videos. George sends us an audio recording each morning of the race to discuss tactics and chances, and we've also met him stable open days and on course. The non-monetary prizes, a trophy, finish photo, race video etc are placed in a draw for us. I was lucky enough to win an engraved bowl at Sandown after Salamanca Lad won there.
We are a decent group of friends, meet up often and our horses have run at Goodwood, Newmarket, Sandown and Haydock to name a few. In the case of my Agouti Bear the Curragh and Naas just a couple.
I can recommend it, but treat it as 'entertainment', not a way to make money.
I think the first and most important thing to bear in mind when considering racehorse ownership, whether solely or through a syndicate, it is not an investment, but simply a hobby and any finanical gain requires a lot of luck, although we have had our fair share.
My first (and current) syndicate is Fellowship Racing with several posters on here also involved. We owned Salamanca Lad and Calibos, both as late 2 year olds/3 year olds trained by Dan and Claire Kübler in Lambourn. Bought for 12,000 and 18,000 (guineas) at the Newmarket HIT sales in October 2023 and 2024 respectively, they were sold for 24,000 and 15,000 so a decent gain and a small loss. Salamanca Lad won 3 races (almost 4) and Calibos once.
I had a 10% share in Salamanca Lad and my monthly invoice (in training) was £364.80 inclusive of VAT. A bit less when out in the field during winter. You can claim the VAT from the purchase and monthly training back (as we did). We had a similar deal with Calibos.
I also owned Agouti Bear via Kildare Racing, trained by Danny Murphy at the Curragh (2nd on debut there). Bought for 14,000 euros. Won a race and was placed several times and even ran in a Premier Handicap. Around a total of 21,000 euros in prize money, since sold for breeding and i'm no longer involved.
Our current trainer and filly is George Scott at Newmarket and Lady Of Clover bought as a late 2 year old at the HIT sale in October 2025 for 18,000 guineas. Has run 9 times for us with a 2-0-3 record (won at Lingfield last Saturday) and total prize money of around £11.5K. I only have 5% in this one and my monthly invoice is £189, albeit no VAT for her. She's entered 3 times next week, so fingers crossed for another win to enhance her sale price in October. We only keep them 1 year.
At Fellowship Racing, we get owners passes including for a guest. Free food/refreshments in the owners lounge and program. We have/had dedicated WhatsApp groups to discuss entries and the stable posts photos, videos and updates as to her progress. We also post photos and videos. George sends us an audio recording each morning of the race to discuss tactics and chances, and we've also met him stable open days and on course. The non-monetary prizes, a trophy, finish photo, race video etc are placed in a draw for us. I was lucky enough to win an engraved bowl at Sandown after Salamanca Lad won there.
We are a decent group of friends, meet up often and our horses have run at Goodwood, Newmarket, Sandown and Haydock to name a few. In the case of my Agouti Bear the Curragh and Naas just a couple.
I can recommend it, but treat it as 'entertainment', not a way to make money.
Just to add, we do not pay any management fees and never have, not with the Küblers, Scott or Fellowship racing. The syndicate was created jointly by a group of friends, the leader is well known to us and a fellow owner. He does the work free, mind you he works in the city 
I would not be interested whatsover in the typical Basher Watts concept with a ridiculously low percentage share ownership.
I would not be interested whatsover in the typical Basher Watts concept with a ridiculously low percentage share ownership.
Thank you for the kind comments. Blushing.
The money from the sale of the horse arrived a few minutes ago in my bank account (It took five weeks from me accepting to the money arriving).
The same as Andew-in-Sweden I do most of my communication with the boarding stud and the trainer by WhatsApp.
This morning I got a video from the boarding stud of the 2yo in the field, and I forwarded it to the trainer.
The trainer operates by sending me a one minute voice message on WhatsApp.
That works best as he can gather his thoughts, give the message, and deal with his other 60 horses and staff.
I have only spoken to the trainer once on the phone, never seen the horse racing (watch live on France-Galop), saw enough of the horse in Ireland as a foal and yearling.
I have no interest in "leading in my horse" after a race.
The staff, work riders, jockey, and trainer do the work.
I picked the trainer by contacting France-Galop and they sent me a list of about half a dozen.
He has been as good as I could have hoped.
The money from the sale of the horse arrived a few minutes ago in my bank account (It took five weeks from me accepting to the money arriving).
The same as Andew-in-Sweden I do most of my communication with the boarding stud and the trainer by WhatsApp.
This morning I got a video from the boarding stud of the 2yo in the field, and I forwarded it to the trainer.
The trainer operates by sending me a one minute voice message on WhatsApp.
That works best as he can gather his thoughts, give the message, and deal with his other 60 horses and staff.
I have only spoken to the trainer once on the phone, never seen the horse racing (watch live on France-Galop), saw enough of the horse in Ireland as a foal and yearling.
I have no interest in "leading in my horse" after a race.
The staff, work riders, jockey, and trainer do the work.
I picked the trainer by contacting France-Galop and they sent me a list of about half a dozen.
He has been as good as I could have hoped.
You can see the last race of Saint Eligius (was my horse until 15:00 today) at Deauville of 09/08/26.
https://www.attheraces.com/form-popup/horse/Saint-Eligius/3752268?raceid=1589222
https://www.attheraces.com/form-popup/horse/Saint-Eligius/3752268?raceid=1589222
Yeah, well, I like the opportunity to be cutting and sarcastic. 
good fred and i hope not to spoil it with my puny offering
we set up a symndicate in our local(posh) pub and it was great fun. not too many, 12 and we only ever had 4 horses. doing it aamong friends is important as big syndicates with hundereds of members are too risky and you dont know who you will have to endure at the races or stable visits. dont just allow any who put their hand up into the swindle
problems arose when 2 members enigrated and passed on their share to 2 others, without prior agreement with other members. they duly did everyones head in, half of us dropped out as a result and it petered out. pity
moral; dont have anything to do with cokeheads
we set up a symndicate in our local(posh) pub and it was great fun. not too many, 12 and we only ever had 4 horses. doing it aamong friends is important as big syndicates with hundereds of members are too risky and you dont know who you will have to endure at the races or stable visits. dont just allow any who put their hand up into the swindle
problems arose when 2 members enigrated and passed on their share to 2 others, without prior agreement with other members. they duly did everyones head in, half of us dropped out as a result and it petered out. pity
moral; dont have anything to do with cokeheads
A really interesting thread for a change.
My last experience was 22 years ago. 12 x 1/12th shares were advertised in RP at a small stable about 20 miles from where I lived for a horse with proven form i.e. not unraced. I thought it would be good to make new friends and have the craic of going racing as a group. Unfortunately it did not turn out like that (I do not want to elaborate further) . TBF the horse was consistent honest low grade, and in the time I was involved from 7 runs were 2 wins, 3 seconds,1 third, and its runs were not hundreds of miles away.
I have often thought about giving it another go, but I have never seen the right opportunity. I find that many trainer’s websites are woefully out of date with information and could do more to encourage/advertise small group shares on their websites.
@busyfool - I see the problem you had with leaving members as an issue as well
@andrew – I think you are lucky to be in a small coherent trusted group with a plan and a trainer(s) to execute that plan for you. If you lose one of the group for the next one I would be interested in a DM.
Same if anyone has a small group looking to add to it.
My last experience was 22 years ago. 12 x 1/12th shares were advertised in RP at a small stable about 20 miles from where I lived for a horse with proven form i.e. not unraced. I thought it would be good to make new friends and have the craic of going racing as a group. Unfortunately it did not turn out like that (I do not want to elaborate further) . TBF the horse was consistent honest low grade, and in the time I was involved from 7 runs were 2 wins, 3 seconds,1 third, and its runs were not hundreds of miles away.
I have often thought about giving it another go, but I have never seen the right opportunity. I find that many trainer’s websites are woefully out of date with information and could do more to encourage/advertise small group shares on their websites.
@busyfool - I see the problem you had with leaving members as an issue as well
@andrew – I think you are lucky to be in a small coherent trusted group with a plan and a trainer(s) to execute that plan for you. If you lose one of the group for the next one I would be interested in a DM.
Same if anyone has a small group looking to add to it.
Rigsby, you don't wish to elaborate but were you stitched up by the syndicate boss and/or trainer?
@swiftynifty There are good reasons why I do not wish to comment and it was a private matter which upset me. I hope you understand.
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