Labour want to tax gambling out of existence

I will tell mr dc Brown what he will ge Fcuck all the shops will be shut no revunue and  they will have to pay for me and other staff who will be in the dole que as rico says he is AFDC sorry a very very angry .
Ronnie.

Gambling on horses wont disappear, it will just take another form. My belief is that it will be government run.
There'll be jobs for folk who want to work in such establishments but they may be asked to serve food, bingo tickets, sweep the floors.
emporiums of a nature not recognisable now.

Naughty boys and girls will be allowed to gamble as long as they are deemed 'responsible'.
Banks will report on your betting habits, and your medical practitioner will report on you should you present with psychological problems, alcohol abuse, domestic abuse etc.
Iris recognition will be the KYC info, run by AI.
No point dwelling on the past, as you wont be part of the future.

Surely, if betting on horses stops, as in legally, and generating money to fund the sport...it would cease to exist ? People won't go racing to watch a load of horses race if they can't bet on it, irrespective of post race bands, discos etc
And if the black market gambling isn't, obviously, putting funds into racing then it can't be sustainable...football and other sports are not reliant on gambling, most of the youngsters I speak to are football betters only, and not very savvy regarding odds, value either

There was a report that came out years ago highlighting that future gamblers wouldn't be betting on horses and greyhounds and as to how they could be engaged.
Quite disturbing really but a natural progression and reality that this and future generations would need to be enticed by 'games that interested them' as per the evolving digital age (and now AI).
It's nothing personal, it's just business.
The proles need to be fleeced, it's just a case of how you keep them engaged while you fleece them, and at the same time 'entertain' them.

oh, and control their behaviours in a manner that appears to be in their best interests and also their dependants (if not wider society).
Doesn't really matter if it's Gordon Brown spouting up or any other mouthpiece that is wheeled out, the landscape is about to change drastically.

It was Brown who raided private pension funds and sold a load of the countries gold reserves off at rock bottom prices so why is he still around ?

brown also said a 100 MILL of tax he aid would raise 450 mill would go directly back to racecourses /racing,
as for selling GOLD its like houses its worth what it worth on the day you sell it
if you bought a house for a 100 grand sold it for a million are you now an idiot because it worth 2 mill today ?
if you sold gold 3 yrs ago at the highest price its ever been are you an idiot because its worth 40% more today ?

just one of those comments thrown out there in social media world,where 99.9% of those throwing it out there have no idea of the context it was sold in,
thatcher baically  giving  council house tock away,elling north sea oil field ,gas,water, etc far worse decisions nowlooking back,sunak BN £ insurance blunder

There'll be no tax to collect if most of the betting shops shut.

if you bought a house for a 100 grand sold it for a million are you now an idiot because it worth 2 mill today ?
if you sold gold 3 yrs ago at the highest price its ever been are you an idiot because its worth 40% more today ?

anyone of moderate intelligence (or higher) knows that you don't realise assets immediately after a crash. that's the time to buy.
that obviously counts out characters like brown and andrew bailey

you are probably one of those who sold your equites in March 2020, and still don't feel like an idiot.

well, quite. gold can't be printed. yet, anyway. he managed to do that with sterling instead.

no TAX to collect if betting shos close, it aimed mainly at casino,s, online  casino games,high t gambling arcades,its only involving betting sho because they filled their shop,s with FOBT,s, casino games,cartoon racing  and stopped taking, offering bets on what at the time when horse racing punter,s all wanted FOBT,s removing from shops, BETTING WITH SKILL NOT CHANCE

Old hawk eye should slip on the slippers and P off,not a popular individual around Kirkcaldy tbh….

ISTP.
Sad to say the punters have gone from the shops and they are not coming back .Taake a guess how mutch and how many bets the shop would take on a Monday.
Hope you are well.
Ronnnie.

i will have up to 30 bets today, all on here, and all above bookies sp. ive not been in a shop for years

Cider, what charities are you talking of, please?

the lottery's own publication:

So, what’s the bigger picture of National Lottery funding - most relevant to refugees - since 1994?

Over 2,500 projects, organisations and/or venues have, collectively, received more than £143M of National Lottery funding to support refugees, since 1994

You can see where the £48 billion of scalps has gone, here. If so inclined!

https://nationallottery.dcms.gov.uk/data

Bookmakers chose to dumb down, not wanting to try and outwit the punter, but instead to make it very hard for anyone with a reasonable chance of winning long term to get on with them. Instead they chose FOBT's and cartoon racing to fleece addicts. Racing chose to align themselves to bookmakers at the expense of punters. It is in racing's interests that punters lose as much as possible. Now racing is crying because the government doesn't like the way bookmakers try to fleece addicts. If bookies shops close down then I certainly won't be crying for them. Racing will have to find another way to fund itself and perhaps also introduce a reduced programme rather than the wall to wall racing bookies have demanded.

Sorry if already mentioned, I am sure someone that is more up to date on these matters, all these adverts, you can win a car, a house (not incl omaze) get a hooker for the night, win a motor home etc etc is it true these are not taxed? Why are these companies not brought into line? Labour the Party that wants you to spend spend spend, do not save so they have your money and then ask where it all went when you are older and have none, then kicks in BENEFITS.

1TP when was the last time you went into a bookies. Every time I go into my local Corals there’s 2 or 3 all playing the machines. If the machines aren’t profitable the books will shut the shops. There goes the image rights money for a start.

I certainly don't believe there is any end game like you suggest. Of course people exist in society who want to end horse racing, but that's not at all what tax rises on fobt's is about.

ok, so you think the total tax take from betting will increase?

The Management, yes absolutely agree with all that. My previous comment was directed towards Cider's response.

other than to nick a betfred saturday race card ,must be 20 yrs for a  bet
we all understand RACING need the £ from bookmaker,s but it was racing itelf,backed by the trade paper that fought for punitive taxes on FOBT,s,reduced number of FOBT,S in shop,s  and it was racings leaders who again were popping the  champagne corks when negotiating themeleve a carve out from increased taxes on other form,s of betting

if reasonably intelligent people don't see it, there isn't much hope. it's not a majority of the population that want to end horse racing, but it's the majority of the people with real power and influence. but the majority are being manipulated into thinking that gambling is as bad as smoking tobacco. and using animals for entertainment is cruel. given the (low) standard of education, that's not going to swing back in the sensible direction. you only need to look at how compliant and malleable young people were in lockdowns.

MAJ of people thinking gambling on £2 a spin casino game/FOBT,s isnt goode for you would be correct, you,d have to ask racing and bookmakers why they hitched themelves to the casino game bandwagon, every horseracing punter over 50 can tell you horse racing is now a niche marker hardly ever mentioned at work,between non punting friends,family

It's irrelevant now. But my understanding is that Labour themselves deregulated gambling and allowed the proliferation of gaming and slots in shops.

90%+ shops have no life beyond gaming. Technology is not reversible.

I do not think the HR betting decline has anything to do with FOBTs.  I think it is about more attractive sport betting options.

When I was getting into betting in the 80s, pretty much the only real things offered in shops were horses and dogs.  So I learned about horseracing so I could have a bet.

But now the bookies offer betting on football and tennis and cricket and golf - sports young people already know and are passionate about.

So when they come to want to start betting, they bet on what they know, not learn an alien sport to start betting on.

As for the shops - no different to any thing else on the high street imo - almost everyone has moved their spending online and the high street is dying.

When you increase taxes your actual tax take decreases. They did this in Germany a couple of years ago with online gambling and the tax take reduced by around 40% because the operators increased the edge on the games and people stopped playing.Labour have never understood this and always think they can carry on raising funds just simply by increasing taxes. Its never worked.

It's not really about increasing the amount of tax raised, it's ideology driven. They aren't that stupid. This daft mansion tax will cost more to operate than it collects. But the policy of punishing people with paper wealth will make the feel warm and fuzzy.

And control Cider, they want to control every aspect of your life and slowly but surely its happening.

The best way to sell their ideology driven policies is to claim that the proceeds will be put to 'good' causes. Everything they do is deliberately packaged to make anyone arguing against them to appear evil and uncaring (Tories and Labour + greens and liberals).

Most people will recall that tactic, adding tax to education means that there would be more teachers. Only, there aren't.

Sugar tax (Tories) made no difference to consumption.

No longer BETTING shops. Just slot aracde. Tax them Heavy

Went to my local bookies/casino the other day. Regulary go there Saturday peak times. 4 people on machines 1 even waiting! Nobody interesting in the Horse Racing, really sad.

They have done it themselves the big giants will now need to PAY UP. They had it so good for too long IMO

thought they had already doubled the remote gaming duty to 40% but kept horse racing at the same level

so they want to go in for more... is that right?

Yes gaming duty up to 40% on online casinos but don’t think it applied to FOBTs yet. Don't forget general sports gaming duty goes up to 25% next April (excluding horse racing) so all those extra place races will soon disappear (the books will claw it back somewhere) and will BF put up commission?

Singapore outlawed gambling except in (2) casinos. They even put their only and once premier horseracing racecourse, Kranji, to bed, why? Their citizens were indulging too much; losing too much; productivity dropped, family aggravation increased; etc.

The Singaporeans play the Stock Markets and Cryptos.

SUGAR TAX tory made no different to consumption ?
REALLY ?????

off cousre it made a big difference , big companies reduced the  sugar in sugary drinks to below the  level where they would be taxed,so eople buying the  same drink were consuming less ugar,which is what the tax was designed to do

The only way I know to make these Corporations change their reprehensible behaviour, is to hit them so hard in the pocket they are Forced to change. Either that or I would drive them out of business completely. They do not care about You.

Thought Kranji shut to build on it.

1TP Ordinary Coke (probably the most popular soft drink in the UK) contains 10.6 of sugar per 100ml. How has the sugar tax changed the consumption of that?

i didnt name a brand or drink,but the fact is lots of companies reduced sugar level,s in drink to avoid the tax ,ergo lots of people consumed less sugar so the tax worked as designed,you said it failed

increased TAXES on ciggie,s have helped cut smoking rates but no one,s saying you cant still buy ciggies/moke if you chooe to

Mr Spock - go to your local supermarket. If you can find any (several major retailers don't even stock it now) look at the price of regular/original Coca Cola - then compare it with the price of the 48 other (low sugar or sugar free) varieties that they now produce. Also compare the shelf space given to each.

I'd guess the "sugar tax" has completely decimated sales of the original (very high sugar) version and the shelf space now given to it, confirms that opinion imo.

@Trident

"Either that or I would drive them out of business completely."

If your intent is to save the great British public from their "reprehensible behaviour", then leaving that public with no alternative but the unregulated market seems to me unlikely to achieve that?  Same as the US and Prohibition - people still buy what they want, they just turn to buying it from gangsters.

it's quite amusing now in fact that bookmaker advertising now seems to be about encouraging people not to have a bet.

well of course you wont stop everyone,if someone,s willing to pay £16 for 2o ciggs you wont stop them,

same as you wont stop to everyone from  finding a FOBT/casino game to gamble on

same as if punting went underground me and plenty of other,s just wouldnt bother but others would

if you see 100 bookmaker adverts a day,99 of them will be about sports punting, bet builders, football acca,s, slots, casino game no sign of horse racing

there's nothing wrong with gambling with your own funds, why are you comparing it to smoking tobacco.

i,m not just applying your human behaviour examples to sugary drink,casino games,smoking, etc etc

your the one telling us all its gov policy/those with the means to make all punting/gambling  illegal

That's my perception and I'm entitled to it. I wouldn't trust any government to have my best interests at heart as they are all career politicians who don't give two f00ks for the man (or woman) in the street.

yes so it's nothing to do with raising more tax.

but we must be clear (those on the freedom side if the argument), that there is a much much better argument for nudging people off of tobacco. though I am not attracted to a total ban or their brutally stupid idea to ban people based on the year you were born if you're already an adult.

It depends if you smoke (or have ever) or not. I'm biased as both my parents were heavy smokers and both died of lung related diseases. I'm quite happy for people to smoke so long as I don’t have to breath what they are exhaling, its their choice. But once you start to ban things and the population accept it, the government will move on to the next thing.

Drinking kills thousands of people every year but currently no one wants to stop it, is it because most of the politicians drink as well?

Both my parents were heavy smokers but breathing in smoke never appealed to me as something to choose to do for pleasure. I'm fine with making it difficult.

But the relevancy is that the establishments strategy is to make gambling on sports especially hr as it involves animals, as socially unacceptable as they've made smoking. There was a compelling reason to do that for smoking, not so, gambling.

The present number of bookies does not justify to be represented in the high streets. The betting / punting numbers are too insignificant to warrant the present number. Unlike the past 4 or 5 decades present high street bookies do not provide a service eg a social meeting place or a safe and warm environment that online bookies cannot.

The present high street bookies are in the high streets for one reason only ie to offer fobt to the fobt addicts,  and to entice the general public to play fobt.

Fobt is the most addictive and problematic gambling ever introduced to the high streets of the UK. Fobt is not allowed in Ireland, Australia, Canada, France or even the USA.

I firmly believe fobt should be outlawed in the streets of the UK.

Impossible.
Sad to say not many left in Darlo when i started they was 5 Hills and 5 Corals know only one of each .
Hope you are well.
Ronnie.

And 4 Lads gone.
Ronnie.

i cant keep up
so although we,re told 24/7 on social media/MSM that its  LAB TAX rises that are closing X amount of pubs a week,mr pock now admits MP,s /the gov arnt trying to close pubs becausenthey like a drink

All this stemming from a comment made by the Son Of The Manse who is not even an elected MP, the mind boggles what will happen on here if an actual member of Government made an actual reference to taxing gambling other than what has already been passed. Raising capital to fund new Nuclear Weapons perhaps? lol

1TP yes you do need to keep up as I never said that, it was just a question not a statement of fact. Cag its well touted that the PM doesnt run the government and others behind the scenes do. It was obvious when Starmer was PM he wasn't making half of the decisions.

'ronnie rails', not many left nevertheless, still one too many. Most managers are not friendly either to an unknown face. I'd have thought an opportunity for a new customer; the Paddy next to Ganley's in Morden would try and con you on payout citing a rule 4. Most are clueless eg unable even to calculate a win treble. They are merely custodians of fobt.

You're the exception. You're the old school manager. You know your stuff ie a proper bookie, and a manager. The old high street bookies were once known as the 5th core public service. Not now.

You've a good evening.

Impossible.
Thank you for your very kind words..
Have a nice evening.
Ronnie.

most of the small indies i used on teesside had gone even before TV /pics arrived in bookie,reggie boyle,s in eston and one next to the little club in ormesby ,remeber them writing your bets down for you and had the BLOWER service wired in to the club, use to use the reggies in grangetown on way home from steelworks, would be currently bang in the middle of world war 3,

A Very good article on the rp from the boss of Jenninsbet well worth a look.
Ronnie.

Jenningsbet can protest all they like.
Going under like the rest of the 'smaller' concerns'.
Will happily sell up when the writing appears large on the wall.
nothing personal, it's just business.

Amazing I say what I see and get censored!

RONNIE
you,d willingly take lowest price on the line to take a few £ of that mierable JOYCIE at cleveland back in the day,had a face only his mother could love,GREAT DAYS,

ISTP.
Its amazing how i can still recall places sent plenty of kites to York road Hpool.and to Birchampton Avenue RB sad to say that street is making all the news for bad reasons.
Have a goood day.Ronnie.

ISTP.
i was at Newcastle many years ago on the Friday nite of the plate meeting it was the worst result JJ. EVER HAD.I was a hores called whenby owned by a bunch of gurs who all liked a bet it was trained by a guy from your way who died far to young John Mason the q to be paid out reminds me of the dole q in Darlo.JJ did not happy great days sad to say gone forever.
Ronnie.

cheers ronnie

stu much less money from shop = shop closed.  Racing gets money from how many shops exist. No expert but I believe it's a number of shops thing they each pay for pics even though the more shops you've got there's a better deal.   Cos it's the big boys that own the pics.

It's still an exaggeration, isn't it.

we are likely heading for less than 1000 shops  20+ racecourses closed just my opinion could be wrong

So the affordibility checks that the Tories and now Labour are doubling down on wont affect the way people bet? Maybe I was slightly out of context with the tax issue (though the online casino tax is already having a big impact, with the firms the lowering of payouts) but there is an agenda (I believe) to stigmatise gambling and make it socially unacceptable.

if we all put down  courses where we wouldnt be bothered if they never raced again or not, there,d be a lot more than 20 on the list

I just had two posts deleted from here, because I talked about the type of machines being taxed - blimey this forum is being controlled more than big brother.

Yet, endless posts on here with people bickering with one another, apparently that's fine....

Why isn't the (Anti)-Gambling Commission looking into the harmful effects of Lottery tickets and

playing the stock market?..Just asking.

leif 27 Aug 26 22:02 
Jenningsbet can protest all they like.
Going under like the rest of the 'smaller' concerns'.
Will happily sell up when the writing appears large on the wall.
nothing personal, it's just business



even by your dismally high standard of lowness, thats garbage. jennings is rightly complaining about being persecuted by the state and driven out of business by a govt. that promised a 'growth agenda' and has done quite the opposite

sell to who?-theres no buyers. its very bad business and wholly unnecessary. shops contrubute about 30k each to racing, according to fred dome.

You may have good question there roggrain, unfortunately if I replied I might have my reply removed if it didn't fit the moderation on here apparently!

The Communits opinion is if you have disposable income to gamble they why shouldn't they have it - they have a lot of good causes they can spaff it on !

The sooner people wake up to the fact we have a communist government the better, these fools who voted them in should be ashamed of themselves.

anyone of moderate intelligence (or higher) knows that you don't realise assets immediately after a crash. that's the time to buy.
that obviously counts out characters like brown and andrew bailey

That's assuming you know when the crash has finished ?

New chancellor fancies increasing tax on fobts from 25%
to 40%

Still leaves just a 60% margin LEFT

That's assuming you know when the crash has finished ?

No, you don't have to find the bottom. That's where a lot of people go wrong. You'd expect the chancellor and 100s of overpaid civil servants and advisers to be a little smarter than a lot of people.

Is the Evoke deal going to collapse? Comments please looks like even after this stuff price is holding up.

Cider they clearly have not got a scoobie but then again why should they. We had some friends over for the weekend from France went into our Town Centre. They originated from here disgusted by the nothingness the dirtiness and risk. One supermarket left now our M&S long gone. We have a market YIPPEE all the stallholders gone a few pubs some hairdressers and ciggie shops the charity shops cannot afford rents now pubs but less and loads less betting shops the big one is an interesting place if you get my drift. High streets are dead will be more boarded up where did it go wrong. Did I read 30% population on benefits get more than if in a paid job. Relevance is there are no jobs will be no jobs.

The Tories created the utterly perverse UC system, where all of the incentives are upside down. Following on from Noo labour's perverse system of paying welfare to people who are already earning.

It probably seemed logical to bring benefits within one system, but the implementation has been a catastrophe.

And that doesn't even touch on 'PIP' which sits outside of UC, and people can be eligible for if they are multimillionaires.

The the Tories harmonised 'mental health' and gave it the same weight as actual physical sickness and disability.

The whole welfare culture it seems has been curated to slowly have a parasitic impact. Only borrowing is currently keeping the country afloat. Borrowing that will never be settled whilst any of us are still alive. And it will, eventually, go pop.

My local Betfeds closed at the weekend.  Been there for at least 27 years

Over 300 jobs going at 365.
Ronnie.

365 jobs?

handglider
absolutety, spot on
imo

How does £70k per annum for horse racing pictures in a shop add up?  (If I'm understanding the owner of Jenningsbet correctly?)

That's nearly £200 a day in profit to clear.  Then you have GPT on top of that.  Then you have the expenses of administering those bets.  Then you have the fact that most horse racing bets prolly placed and watched at home.  I've been in shops during racing and there's no way there's a captive audience bringing that profit in.  You're lucky if you have 2 punters betting on it.

i might be an outlier but not going to shops has benefited me,30/40 yrs ago when i was young and stupid,i,m just stupid now   before you could watch pics at home,i,d fancy a horse in the 3,00 ,get to bookies for 2.30 and plenty of times i,d need my fancy to win the  3,00 to get back what i,d lost between 2.30 and 3.00,and if 3,00 had won i,d stay in backing on later races, now i,m betting at home online and not in cash i dont do that, seem to have more control of my punting,which is the last thing bookmaker,s want if you X by 10,s of thousands