Bow Echo & Gstaad...

i didnt expect Bow to cut him down inside furlong marker today, reckon gstaad had 2 lengths on him and wasnt stopping, great race though again

Magnificent race no doubt about it he’s a top class miler he would be at least the equal of Kingman as the 2nd best miler this century,it would be a great spectacle if they ran him over 10 furlongs at York against this years O’Brien overhyped one.

I'd not run him against any battalion of AOB / Coolmore outside 8f esp in Ireland. The "Argentina" outfit will run spoilers to manage the result.

dont think hed beat ombudsman on fast ground over 10f at york , cant even see him going further than the mile, thats why we should really admire frankel the more,  he i did step up

Maybe at 4 elisjohn

Sometimes it is hard to ignore Impossible123 had his ridiculous comments.
He is like the local drunk on a park bench shouting nonsense.
But I will.

A great race today, and a brilliant performance from the winner
A well above average miler, which we haven't seen for quite some time.

After Ascot Boughey said 8f was his limit, Jaques Le Marois next?

There’s one older miler left to be Notable Speech who surly has this as his target.

I’ve not read or heard of the next plans anyone know what was said?

Jimnast/Brandy,

I agree, a wonderful race and a superb turn of foot (winning time fast by standard). I was on course just as i was for Frankel, one of those 'i was there' moments. The reception for horse and jockey was incredible, i haven't heard one as such for a good many years, it was probably on Constitution Hill level.

There's only the QEII left for him in England (G1/8f) on possible soft going and zero in Ireland, so it's France or USA. France gives him a couple of options over 8f in August and September (Deauville and Longchamp) and another on Arc weekend if he steps down to 7f (unlikely). Will connections step him up in trip, who knows. Keeneland in November could be on the cards, but it's a tight oval, a short run to the bend and the draw plays a part, a double figure and forget it. What would it prove going there anyway and at the end of a long season. Will he run as a 4 year old ? I have my doubts and feel he will retire unbeaten if he stays this side of the 'pond'.

Very well done Andrew, that is a good accurate summary of yesterdays race and looking ahead. I did think trainer was keen to introduce Bow Echo o the US breeders, so Keenland could be on for Billy the Kid. He was really well wagered yesterday too, and as you state great winners enclosure reception.

From the post:


“Boughey picked out either the Prix Jacques le Marois or the Prix du Moulin next for Bow Echo. He also highlighted his desire to conquer America in the Breeders' Cup Mile at the end of October, something not even Frankel attempted.
If he is still unbeaten after a trip to Keeneland, perhaps it will be appropriate to revisit the comparisons. Before then, Bow Echo and his connections deserve to be celebrated for their own achievements.”


It has to be the Marois as the that’s the stallion making race, the Moulin is a consolation G1 and doesn’t add much.

He’ll show there if he can ship, you need to know that before talk of America.

For all the praise he’s been beating a horse that was beating in many G1’s as a 2 yr old. (3 in total)

Opera Ballo has also proved that he’s not top class.

*beaten

Sorry to rain on the parade just a little but these are facts.

For what he's already achieved he'll already be popular
as a stallion whether he goes to France or not.

To beat the mob-handed anything goes AOB outfit is satisfaction personified for me. I like the sport; I like betting, even losing, if picking a lemon.

Karma is everywhere, AOB / Coolmore - remember this!

Jaytrump

Many thanks for your post, appreciated. My words didn't do justice to the reception for Bow Echo and Billy post race on Wednesday, it was incredible and even Ed mentioned on ITV yesterday he had never heard such a celebration at Goodwood before. Just superb, it will be in my memory for a good while. I regret i didn't go for another star in Diamond Necklace yesterday as planned, but explanation on my own thread tomorrow.

As for the poster having a dig at the horse (it didn't rain on my parade) this is also having a pop at horse racing as a sport and spectacle per se. One of the best milers since 2012, unbeaten in 6 and good horses don't always win by Frankel-like distances, nor do they have to, it's often more in how they win, not what they beat. How many horses have won the mile 'treble' aka Newmarket 2000, SJP and Sussex before Frankel ever ? Only 2 !

I agree the Prix Jacques le Marois may carry a tad more prestige than the the Prix Moulin, but to call it a consolation that doesn't add much is certainly harsh. I'm sure connections of Miesque, Goldikova, Excelerbration, Rock Of Gibraltar, Moonlight Cloud, Persian King and Baaeed to name just a few would disagree and as intimated by another poster, neither race is going to increase Bow Echo's stud fee valuation, he's already a star the sport needs.

I’m not going to argue the toss with you for the sake of it. But you answered and contradicted the point that I made with some of those that you quoted.
Goldikova (one of my fav horses) wasn’t the best of her generation and scored without Zarkava running there. The same can be said about Excellebration in Frankels abscence.

Moonlight Cloud was never a top miler and it gave her a chance to score.

It wasn’t a dig at the horse but a critical evaluation of what he’s been beating. 

The worst thing that any punter can do is form a fan club on or around a horse due to money won on it. It clouds perception in the cold light of day.

I’d already written on the 2000 Guineas thread on how hard it is for a horse to do what he’s done, it’s even harder to do the Guineas double and then take in the SJP.

HenryTheNavigator managed it but was beaten in the Moulin when drawn wide. Which emphasises the point about the ability to travel, which he’d done in coming to Britain.

Like Frankel Bow has yet to leave these shores.

Like frankel bow echo is unbeaten unlike many of the great horses

Bow Echo has done extremely well. He's beaten every colt in his age group in the 3 most prestigious and important races, and more. Personally, I do not think or believe winning the Jacques Le Marois or The Moulin will enhance his standing as the best 3 yr old over 8f, and his breeding shed fee and value. Yet, his connections have never compared him to Frankel

Whilst on the other hand his main adversary AOB has repeatedly knocked his size. And, using the comment by Mr Murtagh (a former jock of his main adversary) horseracing is not a beauty contest, but the ability to run very, very fast.

I think AOB needs to learn to lose sportingly and gracefully. Gstaad will never beat Bow Echo over 8f except possibly in Ireland.

As said I’ve not knocked him, the unbeaten tag can be a millstone.

For me Zenyatta lost nothing in defeat in the Classic that year.

There was an interview with George Scott yesterday and he did said that Henry had asked him if he should take Frankel to the Breeders Cup.
He never gave his reply or reason for it,  would love to know.

The worst thing that any punter can do is form a fan club on or around a horse due to money won on it

I tend to agree, but i like to spot potential future stars as 2 year olds aka Zarkava (my favourite filly) Blue Rose Cen, Constitution River and Diamond Necklace et all who i backed as youngsters and followed. I love the sport and been involved in it a lifetime, but it's not always about the money as i have posted on my own thread at times. I often only have a single bet on course and this week at Goodwood, only had 2 bets during the past 3 days and doubt i will play today. Of course all punters bet to win money, i'm no different, but my lumpy bets are always selective and the stake will always reflect the field etc, irrespective of my liking for the horse.

Fair enough and we have that in common, our love for the sport and being selective.

I don’t like to compare horses and people bringing up Frankel I’d not do.

The only comparison I’d make with him is that he and Bow both came close to defeat at Ascot. Both trainers had their hearts in the mouths for a stride or two!

For me he’s improved this year on what he’d done at two and I’m glad that we have a good horse in a different stable.

I’m glad we have a good horse in a different stable totally agree delashay.


Good post impossible

On another subject I visited borough market last Thursday which you recommended me a year or so ago very interesting place liked the whole area although it was very busy

Ha Jimnast , old stomping ground for 20 odd years 70s to 90s , loved it . My only comment fwiw is that Bow Echo has been brilliant but Frankel was on another plane .

On the issue of BOW ECHO and 1m2f.

He races as if he would be fine at the distance - at least at Goodwood and in the 2000 Guineas, he did.

Bow Echo's - Dam - Aristocratic Lady - was a 6 Furlong sprint handicapper for Simon Crisford ... Bow Echo is her only progeny to run, so far.
Aristocratic Lady's Dam's best performer won a couple of small-field Group 3s, of unexceptional quality.

However - BOW ECHO's GrandDam - was the Dam of DUBAWI  - and the family trace back to High Line, and Derby winner High-Rise.
DUBAWI, however, was an out and out Miler, himself.

On BOW ECHO's Stallion side ...

His Sire is 2000 Guineas winner Night of Thunder - who weakened badly, to finish next to last, in his only try at 1m2f in the Eclipse.

However - Night of Thunder's best offspring is -- OMBUDSMAN - multiple Group 1.  1m2f Winner ...
Yet, also - the Sire of Flying Sprinter - Highfield Princess.

As they say - 'You pays your money, and takes your chance'.

Hello paulo

I’m frankels biggest fan so would agree that frankel is on a different plane ,however this fellow is the best since him although Kingman was very good ,if he stays in training he could get pretty close.

Could well meet for the 4TH round in France,all being well with the pair.

I wouldn’t have any financial interest in the race Penzance but I know who I’ll be cheering for

jimnast -

I instantly thought about your posting on another Thread, the other day, about 'Industry SPs' -

When I read Simon Nott's Goodwood betting (Thursday) report last night... he said -
--------------

'The market knew, but also got it wrong, Avalon Queen which returned 4/1 beat So Lovely in a photo, the book lost £800 on the race after favourable places.
The winner had been 7/1 but was freely available at 5/1 on course,
these SP’s really must be a licence to print money off course. Come racing.

Continuing the SP comment the runner-up returned 4/7 the last bet in Star’s book was 8/11. Outrageous.'
----------

The Front Two in the same race, BOTH Shaved and Shortened'.