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26 Jul 26
19:53
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Date Joined:
03 Feb 11
So there is no questioning the achievements of Aiden O'Brien, his roll of honour speaks for itself and its not really necessary to go into all the group ones etc and despite being given pure bred after pure bred he still has to win with them, that said the following does show just how good certain other trainers are comparatively in the UK based on percentages, Aiden O'Brien, 2yo on turf 22%, 3yo on turf 19%, 4yo on turf 20% all decent figures but lets not forget he is backed by a breeding operation, So lets compare him to another trainer backed by a breeding operation in Charlie Appleby, 2yo on turf 35%, 3yo on turf 25%, 4yo on turf 21% so these percentages show just how good Appleby is comparably. Now lets look at William Haggas and of course he has no breeding operation behind him, 2yo on turf 18%, 3yo on turf 24%, 4yo on turf 20% so yet again he compares well to Aiden O'Brien in fact this goes to show just how good he is. Finally John and Thady Gosden, 2yo on turf 16 %, 3yo on turf 20% and 4yo on turf 20%. The point I am making here is just how good is O,Brien comparably to the others mentioned in this post, imagine what Haggas might do if he had Coolmore providing him with ammunition!!!
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if Tony Carroll was training the same horses would he be a failure iyo?
In my view Aiden is an exceptional trainer but the key has to be Coolmore. They have had the resources to select, breed and buy the best middle distnce horses in Europe if not the world. Even on Saturday they were able to field the third and fourth in the KG with only Juddmomte and Aga Khan Studs in front.
Aiden O'Brien
2yo on turf 22%
3yo on turf 19%
4yo on turf 20%
Charlie Appleby
2yo on turf 35%
3yo on turf 25%
4yo on turf 21%
William Haggas
2yo on turf 18%
3yo on turf 24%,
4yo on turf 20%
John and Thady Gosden
2yo on turf 16 %
3yo on turf 20%
4yo on turf 20%
Thanks for posting these.
He’s been called a genius which those figures show the true light of that statement.
2yo on turf 22%
3yo on turf 19%
4yo on turf 20%
Charlie Appleby
2yo on turf 35%
3yo on turf 25%
4yo on turf 21%
William Haggas
2yo on turf 18%
3yo on turf 24%,
4yo on turf 20%
John and Thady Gosden
2yo on turf 16 %
3yo on turf 20%
4yo on turf 20%
Thanks for posting these.
He’s been called a genius which those figures show the true light of that statement.
UK Flat Turf
Seasons: 2023/2024/2025/2026
Horse age: 2yo, 3yo & 4yo.
Seasons: 2023/2024/2025/2026
Horse age: 2yo, 3yo & 4yo.
| Trainer | Bets | Wins | Win% | P/L(SP) | Place% | Races | P/L(BF) | ROI(BF) | Num. Horses |
| Appleby, Charlie | 809 | 219 | 27.07% | -27.27 | 48.95% | 704 | 79.46 | 9.82 | 294 |
| Gosden, J H M | 1285 | 241 | 18.75% | -191.17 | 40.08% | 1094 | -13.18 | -1.03 | 376 |
| Haggas, W J | 1734 | 378 | 21.80% | -27.77 | 43.94% | 1634 | 292.32 | 16.87 | 416 |
| OBrien, A P | 466 | 93 | 19.96% | -81.75 | 41.42% | 328 | -31.61 | -6.81 | 197 |
The figures I put up were from the Racing Post, showing the UK details from the last five years.
if Tony Carroll was training the same horses would he be a failure iyo?
He certainly would not have the same success from his present facilities
Sell them
TC can certainly train but he is Division3 and AOB is P/L
TC can certainly train but he is Division3 and AOB is P/L
O’Brien got the silver spoon Carroll is a grafter…..
I don’t do Coolmore tbh……they’re not sports people imv…..
Bet they see all these hundreds of trophies as a nuisance tbh…
Bet they see all these hundreds of trophies as a nuisance tbh…
Typical of a resentful Sweaty.
You don't have to like Coolmore (I certainly do not) but you have to respect their achievements and Set Up.
You don't have to like Coolmore (I certainly do not) but you have to respect their achievements and Set Up.
I respect Juddmonte…..and very small syndicate groups…..
But for me juddmonte is the daddy……
But for me juddmonte is the daddy……
Gstaad will win the Sussex but it will be ah well it was a good thing…
Godolphin need young talent like billy,the grade 3 has been there too long imv..
...In my view, those overall stats are irrelevant for AOB.
The Coolmore operation is intent and geared up to just a single outcome.............Group 1 success.
Everything else is collateral activity.
The stats for only Group 1 races would be colossal I'm guessing.
The Coolmore operation is intent and geared up to just a single outcome.............Group 1 success.
Everything else is collateral activity.
The stats for only Group 1 races would be colossal I'm guessing.
The direct comparison would be with Charlie Appleby backed by Godolphin, his figures surpass O'Brien but the other thing is how good is William Haggas, so underrated and has trained around three thousand winners, I grew up with Cecil and Stoute being the best around, they would for instance send one horse to the derby and win it whereas O'Brien would and does send four at a time and half the time he has no idea which one is going to win. I sometimes wonder just how good a 4yo Lambourn might be if trained by Haggas, its unbelievable to think that a dual derby winner has been used as a pacemaker. Then every year they come out with their wonder horse, the best they have ever had, purely for breeding purposes and to hype up a horse for stud. The record of O'Brien is fantastic but then remember this, Saeed Bin Suroor who nobody will ever remember has trained nearly two hundred group one winners and over two thousand five hundred winners being backed by Godolphin Breeding operation.
Plenty of trainers out there who would train more winners than Haggas if they had the same horses imop.
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