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26 Jul 26
19:53
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Date Joined:
03 Feb 11
So there is no questioning the achievements of Aiden O'Brien, his roll of honour speaks for itself and its not really necessary to go into all the group ones etc and despite being given pure bred after pure bred he still has to win with them, that said the following does show just how good certain other trainers are comparatively in the UK based on percentages, Aiden O'Brien, 2yo on turf 22%, 3yo on turf 19%, 4yo on turf 20% all decent figures but lets not forget he is backed by a breeding operation, So lets compare him to another trainer backed by a breeding operation in Charlie Appleby, 2yo on turf 35%, 3yo on turf 25%, 4yo on turf 21% so these percentages show just how good Appleby is comparably. Now lets look at William Haggas and of course he has no breeding operation behind him, 2yo on turf 18%, 3yo on turf 24%, 4yo on turf 20% so yet again he compares well to Aiden O'Brien in fact this goes to show just how good he is. Finally John and Thady Gosden, 2yo on turf 16 %, 3yo on turf 20% and 4yo on turf 20%. The point I am making here is just how good is O,Brien comparably to the others mentioned in this post, imagine what Haggas might do if he had Coolmore providing him with ammunition!!!
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if Tony Carroll was training the same horses would he be a failure iyo?
In my view Aiden is an exceptional trainer but the key has to be Coolmore. They have had the resources to select, breed and buy the best middle distnce horses in Europe if not the world. Even on Saturday they were able to field the third and fourth in the KG with only Juddmomte and Aga Khan Studs in front.
Aiden O'Brien
2yo on turf 22%
3yo on turf 19%
4yo on turf 20%
Charlie Appleby
2yo on turf 35%
3yo on turf 25%
4yo on turf 21%
William Haggas
2yo on turf 18%
3yo on turf 24%,
4yo on turf 20%
John and Thady Gosden
2yo on turf 16 %
3yo on turf 20%
4yo on turf 20%
Thanks for posting these.
He’s been called a genius which those figures show the true light of that statement.
2yo on turf 22%
3yo on turf 19%
4yo on turf 20%
Charlie Appleby
2yo on turf 35%
3yo on turf 25%
4yo on turf 21%
William Haggas
2yo on turf 18%
3yo on turf 24%,
4yo on turf 20%
John and Thady Gosden
2yo on turf 16 %
3yo on turf 20%
4yo on turf 20%
Thanks for posting these.
He’s been called a genius which those figures show the true light of that statement.
UK Flat Turf
Seasons: 2023/2024/2025/2026
Horse age: 2yo, 3yo & 4yo.
Seasons: 2023/2024/2025/2026
Horse age: 2yo, 3yo & 4yo.
| Trainer | Bets | Wins | Win% | P/L(SP) | Place% | Races | P/L(BF) | ROI(BF) | Num. Horses |
| Appleby, Charlie | 809 | 219 | 27.07% | -27.27 | 48.95% | 704 | 79.46 | 9.82 | 294 |
| Gosden, J H M | 1285 | 241 | 18.75% | -191.17 | 40.08% | 1094 | -13.18 | -1.03 | 376 |
| Haggas, W J | 1734 | 378 | 21.80% | -27.77 | 43.94% | 1634 | 292.32 | 16.87 | 416 |
| OBrien, A P | 466 | 93 | 19.96% | -81.75 | 41.42% | 328 | -31.61 | -6.81 | 197 |
The figures I put up were from the Racing Post, showing the UK details from the last five years.
if Tony Carroll was training the same horses would he be a failure iyo?
He certainly would not have the same success from his present facilities
Sell them
TC can certainly train but he is Division3 and AOB is P/L
TC can certainly train but he is Division3 and AOB is P/L
O’Brien got the silver spoon Carroll is a grafter…..
I don’t do Coolmore tbh……they’re not sports people imv…..
Bet they see all these hundreds of trophies as a nuisance tbh…
Bet they see all these hundreds of trophies as a nuisance tbh…
Typical of a resentful Sweaty.
You don't have to like Coolmore (I certainly do not) but you have to respect their achievements and Set Up.
You don't have to like Coolmore (I certainly do not) but you have to respect their achievements and Set Up.
I respect Juddmonte…..and very small syndicate groups…..
But for me juddmonte is the daddy……
But for me juddmonte is the daddy……
Gstaad will win the Sussex but it will be ah well it was a good thing…
Godolphin need young talent like billy,the grade 3 has been there too long imv..
...In my view, those overall stats are irrelevant for AOB.
The Coolmore operation is intent and geared up to just a single outcome.............Group 1 success.
Everything else is collateral activity.
The stats for only Group 1 races would be colossal I'm guessing.
The Coolmore operation is intent and geared up to just a single outcome.............Group 1 success.
Everything else is collateral activity.
The stats for only Group 1 races would be colossal I'm guessing.
The direct comparison would be with Charlie Appleby backed by Godolphin, his figures surpass O'Brien but the other thing is how good is William Haggas, so underrated and has trained around three thousand winners, I grew up with Cecil and Stoute being the best around, they would for instance send one horse to the derby and win it whereas O'Brien would and does send four at a time and half the time he has no idea which one is going to win. I sometimes wonder just how good a 4yo Lambourn might be if trained by Haggas, its unbelievable to think that a dual derby winner has been used as a pacemaker. Then every year they come out with their wonder horse, the best they have ever had, purely for breeding purposes and to hype up a horse for stud. The record of O'Brien is fantastic but then remember this, Saeed Bin Suroor who nobody will ever remember has trained nearly two hundred group one winners and over two thousand five hundred winners being backed by Godolphin Breeding operation.
Plenty of trainers out there who would train more winners than Haggas if they had the same horses imop.
the best ever........national hunt, he dominated,flat he dominates......you get to that position because you are the dogs, you stay there and get the best bred horses because you remain the dogs...
its churlish to say otherwise.
its churlish to say otherwise.
UK Flat Group 1 races since 2008 - Trainer with just the one runner in the race.
| Trainer | Bets | Wins | Win% | P/L(SP) | P/L(BF) | Num_Horses |
| Gosden, J H M | 241 | 45 | 18.67% | -52.73 | -14.25 | 137 |
| OBrien, A P | 233 | 45 | 19.31% | -70.91 | -55.32 | 141 |
| Appleby, Charlie | 124 | 26 | 20.97% | 9.07 | 47.22 | 73 |
| Balding, A M | 191 | 16 | 8.38% | -36.03 | 11.5 | 93 |
aiden has so many group /listed class horses he has to run em somewhere hence 2 or 3 in races ,also what has to be considered is he delivers year after year and handles the pressure of having to deliver admirably ,could others do what he does every year ? very few imo.
Don't forget how he conspires to get his favs beaten in GP1s so the lads can lay them and back them next time at bigger odds e.g The Derby, the lads are so short of money it is the only way they survive.
That is the gospel of Delashay and impossible 123 Foyles!! lol
That is the gospel of Delashay and impossible 123 Foyles!! lol
He’s such a great trainer he runs a miler over a mile and half just to try and stretch their stamina!
3:00
Saint-Cloud (FR)
28 Jun 2026
Prix Eugene Adam (Group 2) (Turf)
(3yo) 1m2f Good
1 (1)
Runner Jacket
2. Pearled Majesty 13/10
Christophe Soumillon
M Delcher Sanchez
3 91 Over-Weights 1 110 103 113 –
Took keen hold early, made all, set steady pace, hung right on turn after 2f, shaken up and increased tempo 2f out, clear 1f out, eased inside final 110yds
2 (3)
2½
Runner Jacket
1. Baroud 12/1
Oisin Murphy
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 101 98 104 –
Steadied start, in touch with leaders, headway and went second over 1f out, no match for winner
3 (2)
6 [8½]
Runner Jacket
4. Overnight (FR) 4/5F
Maxime Guyon
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 107 86 92 –
Took keen hold, prominent, went second over 2f out, lost second over 1f out, weakened inside final furlong
4 (4)
9 [17½]
Runner Jacket
3. Focus (IRE) 77/10
Alexis Pouchin
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 101
And has so many horses he just has to run 4 or more in a race!
Yet let’s a G2 go without a runner!
Uses a horse who was beaten 1L by [b]Bow Echo (Action) as a pacemaker, PRico a G1 winner as a race spoiler and another G1 winner (Hawk Mountain) as a pace angle!
Genius who runs all of his horses on their merits and at their level of ability!
[/b]
Saint-Cloud (FR)
28 Jun 2026
Prix Eugene Adam (Group 2) (Turf)
(3yo) 1m2f Good
1 (1)
Runner Jacket
2. Pearled Majesty 13/10
Christophe Soumillon
M Delcher Sanchez
3 91 Over-Weights 1 110 103 113 –
Took keen hold early, made all, set steady pace, hung right on turn after 2f, shaken up and increased tempo 2f out, clear 1f out, eased inside final 110yds
2 (3)
2½
Runner Jacket
1. Baroud 12/1
Oisin Murphy
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 101 98 104 –
Steadied start, in touch with leaders, headway and went second over 1f out, no match for winner
3 (2)
6 [8½]
Runner Jacket
4. Overnight (FR) 4/5F
Maxime Guyon
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 107 86 92 –
Took keen hold, prominent, went second over 2f out, lost second over 1f out, weakened inside final furlong
4 (4)
9 [17½]
Runner Jacket
3. Focus (IRE) 77/10
Alexis Pouchin
A & L Fabre
3 91 Over-Weights 1 101
And has so many horses he just has to run 4 or more in a race!
Yet let’s a G2 go without a runner!
Uses a horse who was beaten 1L by [b]Bow Echo (Action) as a pacemaker, PRico a G1 winner as a race spoiler and another G1 winner (Hawk Mountain) as a pace angle!
Genius who runs all of his horses on their merits and at their level of ability!
[/b]
Be interesting to see Sir henry's strike rate in group 1s
Sir Henry Cecil - remember that 1987 season? 180 winners with a strike rate of 40%, amazing achievement.
No idea of his strike rate in Group1 races but his career strike rate was around the 19% mark.
No idea of his strike rate in Group1 races but his career strike rate was around the 19% mark.
Credit were its due when he goes after the Ascot Gold Cup that shows a little more about how good he is as Coolmore cannot help him with stayers over 2m4f, they simply dont breed to get a stayer so therefore he then has to train top quality horses to stay a mile further than they have been bred for and ten Ascot Gold Cups says quite a lot. **** and Fame and Glory are perfect examples of excellently bred 1m4f horses converted to top staying horses.
So he can do it with one horse and over this trip the Coolmore benefit is greatly lessoned, it does make you wonder though what happens in races were he runs three or four and seemingly just does not know which one will win.
So he can do it with one horse and over this trip the Coolmore benefit is greatly lessoned, it does make you wonder though what happens in races were he runs three or four and seemingly just does not know which one will win.
For some reason stars replaced **** in my last post
For some reason it wont let me post the name of the 2006,7,8,9. Gold Cup winner
Cecil won 4 Derby's but 3 of them he had more than 1 rnr in the race.
Cecil had the pick of the crop from very big breeders every year.
He got in that position because he was good at his job.
Aiden had the firepower because he too is good at his job.
Always read people questioning why he runs so many in a race. Why he tries to stretch a horses stamina in a Derby. Not knowing who is best horse is.
Do you really not the answer to this? Or just playing dumb?
He got in that position because he was good at his job.
Aiden had the firepower because he too is good at his job.
Always read people questioning why he runs so many in a race. Why he tries to stretch a horses stamina in a Derby. Not knowing who is best horse is.
Do you really not the answer to this? Or just playing dumb?
Aiden = Pep
Cecil = Fergie/Clough
Not hard to work out who is the best.
HTH
Cecil = Fergie/Clough
Not hard to work out who is the best.
HTH
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