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bad decision. part of the skill of training is to prepare an entire horse to win top races.
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Agreed, The English Derby next.
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Disgraceful decision.
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Load of B0ll0X.
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Good! I'd like to see the best horse running in the race, and possibly winning. There should not be any negative discrimination in horseracing. A colt cannot run in a fillies' only race similar to men cannot compete against women given the biological and physical differences that affect their performances.
See you in 2027 ARC Calandagan. |
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Will this lead to more 3 yos being whisked off to stud rather than potentially running against bulked up geldings in the following years Arc?
If owners have a horse they think can potentially win an Arc (probably the most prestigious race in Europe), perhaps they shouldn't be so quick to remove the kn@ckers. Removing the kn@ckers obviously concentrates a horses mind on running and calms them down but in a way you could say gives them an unfair advantage anyway. |
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Exactly.
Gelding just about everything is just lazy. |
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Disgraceful decision.
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Anything goes nowadays….dreadful scenes…..
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Maddy Playle, reporter
“The likes of Cirrus Des Aigles, Goliath and Calandagan would have added more depth and intrigue to the field in recent years and ensured that any colt or filly capable of beating them was truly up to scratch…l” Is that the same Calandgan that hated the soft at Epsom in June? ![]() Goliath also won his biggest race on summer ground at Ascot. Would Graffard run all 3 including last years winner against eachother? I very much doubt it. |
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As a race itself, it not that great a spectacle. The name sounds good but there’s far better races throughout the season.
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The irony for those arguing against is that Frankels claim to 10f fame was beating an aged soft ground specialist in Cirrus.
So yes geldings should be able to run. And Aiden not more than one! ![]() |
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My argument against is the gelding is gelded in order to make the horse better. He is no longer a colt. A complete horse. Those are the rules. He was deemed not to be good enough as a colt and therefore had him gelded. Gaining an advantage. To change the rules is to take the exclusivity and certain amount of prestige out of it. I'm no Frankel sycophant. Sea the stars had a better career than Frankel. 8,10,12 furlong group ones in a classic year we will likely to never see again. We can speculate what might have happened; but that's it, it is speculation. What isn't speculation and this is glossed over by the Frankel fandom is that sea the stars won over all the traditionally prestigious distances and the biggest races on offer as a 3 year old. Swap the ownership and trainers of both horses and this question would never arise in the first place.
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It’s interesting the points that you make and I’m torn between two here. Why? Because I like tradition. That gives us a chance to compare over the years.
What I do wonder is what you say about gaining an advantage. Is it that clear? Only 3 horses are mentioned on the post so that doesn’t scream statistically that they are so. Think of in terms of doping, that’s deffo gaining an advantage, it is too for colts over jumps with no tackle to get caught in the birch! If it wasn’t they’d not be gelded and go jumping, so does it work in reverse on the flat? |
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P.s. BB who at this stage do you say not to be on for Arc?! I know it’s a long way out but you must be scanning!
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Andre Fabre doesn't like it. Also says at present it's a proposal but it sounded definite to me.
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Good evening Del. Hope you're well. In my opinion the gelded horse gains an advantage over the colts. In the sense that connections have the horse gelded to help him unlock ability that he cant use had he be intact thereby in contravene to the current rules. This is a thoroughbred industry where as we all know the breeding and bloodstock is of the utmost importance. If the horse isn't good enough without being gelded then such is life. The horse isn't good enough. The arc is considered the ultimate prize on the flat. The most prestigious. I think it would be unfair to the colts to allow geldings in. Its too accomdating when theres no need to be. Minnie hauk is too short. Daryz and thundering on are rightly at the top. Other unexposed and potential improvers at better prices. Minnie hauk would be my lay at the moment but I don't get involved antepost.
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Thank you BB appreciate you sharing your views and feedback about the race looking forwards. I agree in that it shouldn’t be changed for the reasons that you’ve given but also there are other big prizes around the world to be won. My favourite trainers from the past were those who knew this and would travel their horses.
The Arc should be what it’s set out to be, the end of season championship race for the classic generation vs their elders. My eye is on the potential improvers, |
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Trouble is plenty of the elders ( colts ) go to stud end of 3-y-o season. So often the 3-y-o's are not taking on the best from the previous season.
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The present ARC is very different from those won by Dancing Brave, Montjeu or Golden Horn where 3yr old star colts (not the mediocres from AOB / Coolmore) had run over 12f or former Derby winners. I think the inclusion of gelding for this race is the correct decision by the French Horesracing Authority.
This race should be for the best of all, not merely colts and fillies. |
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Yes it's not a classic. KG geldings why not the Arc.
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The King George has become a nothing race.
As if there hasn't been a decent gelding before Calandagan, and there has barely been a discussion. More about the new clamour for talking points, and the lack of top class horses over quite a period of time. We end up with change for change sake. A poor decision. |
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I do not think there'll be another Frankel or Dancing Brave in my lifetime. I do not think one will come from AOB/Coolmore either. The once lauded Gp 1 races eg Epsom Derby, King George, The Eclipse and The ARC have lost their prestige, importance, significance, gravitas and value of the past.
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Coolmore don’t have geldings they don’t do sport tbh…..probably see trophies in the cabinet as clutter tbh….
££££££££……..$$$$$$$$$$$$$………€€€€€€€€€€€€ ….. |
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Dreadful thing greed and power tbh…..plastic people imv…..
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Not all partners happy with this decision as there was no discussion or debate.
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If one of the reasons is about the gelding being able to realize its ability it can't harness as a colt then why are artificial aids like blinkers/visors already allowed, as those aids are supposed to help the horse concentrate,the situation therefore already exists whereby horses are artificially helped which can be viewed as unfair to the colts that can deal with proceedings mentally all on their own.
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For the simple reason Duffy that these artificial aids can be removed, kept on or taken off. I'm no veterinarian but I would go out on a limb here and say that it might not be as easy to remove a colts testes and switch intermittently between colt and gelding. The geldings have the coronation cup exclusive to them, colts and geldings the king George. The arc should always be kept to colts due to the reasoning in this post and my previous posts on this thread. Quite frankly it's tedious and frustrating that this should even need explaining.
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Thanks for your efforts in persevering through the tedium, it's appreciated, I wouldn't be so bothered myself, the classic races are all protected and if connections are bothered they can simply not run, there is also the possibility of running, winning and enhancing its breeding career by beating one of those turbo charged geldings.
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Do not forget the best horses must be allowed to run in any Group race with the exception of a colt running in a filly race. The breeding must take a backseat, regardless.
I'm very surprised AOB does not concur with the French Horseracing Authority. I can only think of "self-interest" - nothing else. |
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"The breeding must take a backseat, regardless" for goodness sake.
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The irony isn't lost on me that in all the kerfuffle about colts and geldings, in more than a decade most of the renewals are won by females, perhaps if more of the colts had their tackle removed they might be able to focus and be able to put in a better performance on the day.
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Gelding a well bred colt would always be the last resort.
There are not many examples of geldings dominating their entire counterparts. I like the decision and do not see the negatives. |
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Agree, Brandy.
Timeform posted some interesting thoughts about this. One is that the Eclipse has been open to geldings for 40 years, but no gelding has ever won, and the King George wasn't won by a gelding until 2024. |
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will geldings have to carry a pound or two Extra ?
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If 2026 is to be the last running of the Arc without geldings, Magnier and the Coolmore team have a great chance of winning it with three of the top four in the betting with P.
Last year's winner Daryz is 7-2 favourite with the firm, but next in the betting is the Coolmore-owned filly Minnie Hauk at 8-1 followed by Constitution River and Diamond Necklace at 10-1. Hmmmm ![]() |
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Anyone know who Nick Watts has put up yesterday @ 20/1 ??
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