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So finally two horses were taken out today that could have been removed at the last forfeit stage along with Montreal.
Nice play Not Nice Guy Aiden!
7 remain entered for Epsom.
Nice play Not Nice Guy Aiden!
7 remain entered for Epsom.
Show More
"The rainfall kept coming on Wednesday, so it gets into the soil profile and particularly down the home straight I've just started to think there's bits that aren't a million miles off soft in places. I could see it easing a bit further."
It still can be Dr.
Is there a chance that they will pull the fav if it does go soft all round?
It still can be Dr.
Is there a chance that they will pull the fav if it does go soft all round?
He has the daisy cutting action of a fast ground horse and what he said here struck me at the time.
Alex Scott, RUK
@alexs_racing
Albert Einstein followed by Benvenuto Cellini after exercise this morning. “We think [Benvenuto Cellini] is a 1m4f horse that wouldn’t be going any further and he could come back to 1m2f. Pierre Bonnard would have no problem going up to 1m6f,” says Aidan O’Brien.
Alex Scott, RUK
@alexs_racing
Albert Einstein followed by Benvenuto Cellini after exercise this morning. “We think [Benvenuto Cellini] is a 1m4f horse that wouldn’t be going any further and he could come back to 1m2f. Pierre Bonnard would have no problem going up to 1m6f,” says Aidan O’Brien.
impossible123 03 Jun 26 14:35
56.6kg
9 stone 2 lb is 58.06 kg
56.6kg
9 stone 2 lb is 58.06 kg
Feast your eyes on these:
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/2025-07-14/killarney/868127/irish-stallion-farms-ebf-maiden
https://www.racingpost.com/results/185/killarney/2025-07-14/899542
Who’s right, who’s wrong?
Spot what I mean?
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/2025-07-14/killarney/868127/irish-stallion-farms-ebf-maiden
https://www.racingpost.com/results/185/killarney/2025-07-14/899542
Who’s right, who’s wrong?
Spot what I mean?
One does the math for you the other doesn’t, so what do we deduce? That Ben gave Endorsement 2lb more in its maiden when it was with a claimed and that means more than when CD met him in a G3 as 3year olds?
Not at all, I was asked a pretty vague question earlier re: weights, I’m not into guessing and prefer straight talk.
Not at all, I was asked a pretty vague question earlier re: weights, I’m not into guessing and prefer straight talk.
I deduce that you still haven't posted your claimed Trade in the French Derby,Delbert.
It takes seconds to do,Bullshatter
It takes seconds to do,Bullshatter
It works like magic.
Ask Delbert to post his bets and he disappears
Ask Delbert to post his bets and he disappears
Delashay • June 3, 2026 9:19 AM BST
Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?
Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?
We agree that you should post your "claimed Trade"in the French Derby.
Perhaps you have difficulty with C&P
Perhaps you have difficulty with C&P
Anybody would think that you were telling porkies,Delbert
The reason that I’ve asked this question is, what if another horse was due to contest that race?
It could mean (because we don’t know that it would have won) that there could have been another anti post favourite for the Derby.
Last year we had two false favourites for the Derby, one a miler another a 10f horse.
It could mean (because we don’t know that it would have won) that there could have been another anti post favourite for the Derby.
Last year we had two false favourites for the Derby, one a miler another a 10f horse.
Dr. And everyone else I hope that you’ll not stop with putting your thoughts up because of the ignorant ones, that will only give them delight. As we know it’s be short lived and they’ll be back looking for another quick fix.
Maybe the favourite will hack up, he’s not rated as high as Item, the ground could be a concern and he’s still available at 2/1 despite Moore being booked and the draw being made, plus he won the favoured trial with a penalty.
Something about that doesn’t seem right, not being shorter.
Maybe the favourite will hack up, he’s not rated as high as Item, the ground could be a concern and he’s still available at 2/1 despite Moore being booked and the draw being made, plus he won the favoured trial with a penalty.
Something about that doesn’t seem right, not being shorter.
uptheirons • June 3, 2026 9:06 PM BST
No sign of your claimed bet then,Delbert
No sign of your claimed bet then,Delbert
fck sake the forums most boring still posting inane nonsense ev 5 mins...getalife ya dc.
I like Benvenuto. He looked very classy last year and his win at Chester makes him the most likely winner.
But there has to be a question over his ability to handle soft ground as his action is of a good ground horse.
Item had the benefit of racing on the best part of the track at York, and is easily past over at around 4/1 for this.
Pierre Bonard looked to be a Derby contender last year with his wins at Newmarket and Saint Cloud. Even though OBrien says he has improved again since his last run, I think he should have been good enough to have won his trial. I prefer to look at performances on the track not what the trai error says.
I won't have a bet until we see what the ground is like on Friday. As it seems most clerks can not provide correct going descriptions.
Two horses i like at a price are Christmas Day and Ancient Egypt. Both are bred with plenty of stamina, and have shown they have ability to get in the mix here.
But there has to be a question over his ability to handle soft ground as his action is of a good ground horse.
Item had the benefit of racing on the best part of the track at York, and is easily past over at around 4/1 for this.
Pierre Bonard looked to be a Derby contender last year with his wins at Newmarket and Saint Cloud. Even though OBrien says he has improved again since his last run, I think he should have been good enough to have won his trial. I prefer to look at performances on the track not what the trai error says.
I won't have a bet until we see what the ground is like on Friday. As it seems most clerks can not provide correct going descriptions.
Two horses i like at a price are Christmas Day and Ancient Egypt. Both are bred with plenty of stamina, and have shown they have ability to get in the mix here.
Nice clear write with reasons given Brandy, I think you’ll like this with what you’ve said in mind.
“Missed his final start at two when picking up a temperature…”
From the SL https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/betfred-derby-tips-horse-by-horse-guide-preview-and-selection-for-epsom-downs/232436
It’s why is asked the forum this :
”Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?”
“The reason that I’ve asked this question is, what if another horse was due to contest that race?”
Are people putting the pieces together now?
“Missed his final start at two when picking up a temperature…”
From the SL https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/betfred-derby-tips-horse-by-horse-guide-preview-and-selection-for-epsom-downs/232436
It’s why is asked the forum this :
”Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?”
“The reason that I’ve asked this question is, what if another horse was due to contest that race?”
Are people putting the pieces together now?
Christmas Day was meant to run in the Group 1 at Saint Cloud, that says that AOB saw him as being a horse of that calibre as a 2 year Old.
He got sick and missed it, maybe he and Pierre were going to run not Endorsement but it shows he was held in high regard as a 2 year old.
Fast forward to around 42 and you’ll hear AOB confirm all of the above, “He got his Group race here with Jack then he was going to a Group 1 in France but he git sick….”
https://www.facebook.com/racingtv/videos/derby-favourite-pierre-bonnard-was-beaten-in-the-ballysax-stakes-at-leopardstown/1613556136595321/
I’m not bothered by the Jockey booking as Ronan was entrusted with Lambourn first up last year. This lad has two runs in him like Lambourn.
Ben unlike the others has only had the one which seems odd, normally only Guineas runners approach the Derby with that build up.
James Braddock impressed me with his kick when he got going, fear him.
Let’s hope it’s a good race!
He got sick and missed it, maybe he and Pierre were going to run not Endorsement but it shows he was held in high regard as a 2 year old.
Fast forward to around 42 and you’ll hear AOB confirm all of the above, “He got his Group race here with Jack then he was going to a Group 1 in France but he git sick….”
https://www.facebook.com/racingtv/videos/derby-favourite-pierre-bonnard-was-beaten-in-the-ballysax-stakes-at-leopardstown/1613556136595321/
I’m not bothered by the Jockey booking as Ronan was entrusted with Lambourn first up last year. This lad has two runs in him like Lambourn.
Ben unlike the others has only had the one which seems odd, normally only Guineas runners approach the Derby with that build up.
James Braddock impressed me with his kick when he got going, fear him.
Let’s hope it’s a good race!
Benvenuto cellini surely no need to look any further looks a good thing if weather is not heavy.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Balding barn threw the cat amongst the Coolmore lot tbh.
Could this be a selection from the bet editing Lorry Driver?
I am sure he will tell us after if it wins
I am sure he will tell us after if it wins
We've had 7 classics now run between England, Ireland & France. AOB has taken 5 of them with 5 different horses. He's got 3 further fillies in the Oaks tomorrow and 3 further colts in the Derby on Saturday.
Even by his lofty standards, that's an incredible group of 3 year olds this year, of both sexes. And both Oaks and Derby favs won at Chester.
It is very hard to think beyond those facts.
Even by his lofty standards, that's an incredible group of 3 year olds this year, of both sexes. And both Oaks and Derby favs won at Chester.
It is very hard to think beyond those facts.
You could take an opposing view that the opposition wasn't up to much,Jumper.
Some of the horses that one easy on derby day hardly ever went on to win another race,
Jun 4, 2026 -- 11:54AM, uptheirons wrote:
You could take an opposing view that the opposition wasn't up to much,Jumper.
Yes, you could. But across 7 races??
One of those he didn't get, the 2000 at Newmarket, his second there went on to take the Irish equivalent. 4th and 8th in the French 2,000 won by Graffard's Rayif.
It is safe to assume that Coolmore have the game by the gonads at the moment,Jumper.
A superbly organised operation.
A superbly organised operation.
Might be of interest.
T.Form Top 9 (S/Life).
Benvenuto Cellini - 130p
Item - 129p
Bay Of Brilliance - 128p
Maltese Cross - 128p
Christmas Day - 125p
Action - 125
Anceint Egypt - 123p
James J Braddock - 123p
Pierre Bonnard - 123p
T.Form Top 9 (S/Life).
Benvenuto Cellini - 130p
Item - 129p
Bay Of Brilliance - 128p
Maltese Cross - 128p
Christmas Day - 125p
Action - 125
Anceint Egypt - 123p
James J Braddock - 123p
Pierre Bonnard - 123p
RIP Timeform.
Just because O'Brien is mopping up the Classics doesn't make any of those horses close to being great.
Just because O'Brien is mopping up the Classics doesn't make any of those horses close to being great.
uptheirons • June 4, 2026 12:31 PM BST
It is safe to assume that Coolmore have the game by the gonads at the moment,Jumper.
A superbly organised operation.
They certainly don’t.
It is safe to assume that Coolmore have the game by the gonads at the moment,Jumper.
A superbly organised operation.
They certainly don’t.
As for your last post, had he ever gone away? I didn’t think so did I! 
I don’t see any update on the post with reports of the ground or if they had any rain or how much at Epsom, nothing but multiple people giving their tips.
loks quite a bit rain forecast tomorrow even up to ko time.
They only had 4 mm yesterday and the clerk of the course has said that it’s drying.
Do we see Endorsement wining a family race yesterday as form franking?
Do we see Endorsement wining a family race yesterday as form franking?
Definitely looks as though the Oaks will be run on softer ground than the Derby unless they get a deluge overnight
The key to the going is tomorrow. Precipitation is forecast for early next morning.
looks fairly open but you obviously cant ignore aob and he runs 4 fav got every chance will stay and progressing short enough tho , i like pierre bonnard a big unit by all accounts and said to have needed debut when behind stablemate xmas day ,improved when just nutted on line by jamesj braddock and should be spot on for this and the step up in trip should suit the recent rain should help soumi up ticks a good few boxes imo around 10s ish on here also james j bradd nothing between em on last run improving and trip should be fine .
I'm coming over To Christmas Day to be at least placed, got a gentle ride in the Dante.
Deluge arrived alright. Certainly wouldn't be a surprise to see one of the so called pacemakers not coming back to them.
If Soumi comes over the rail he’ll think that he’s back at Saint - Cloud in the autumn. (So he’s used to judging that sort of ride)
Winning
(Each Way) Double @ 2 Lines
Christmas Day | Bay City Roller
(Each Way) Double @ 2 Lines
Christmas Day | Bay City Roller
Thanks John hope you and some others read and took advantage of it.
I wonder if Ryan looks even more miffed than usual when he's on the wrong one.
The Favs nearside hind leg stuck on the Stalls frame at the start
What was Keane doing with Item at the front with the pacers?
Bay City Roller
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
I doubt Moore wanted to be at the back and was unfortunate what happened. Soumillion on the other hand on a horse that will stay further leaving it so far out of its ground was bizarre.
Taken a fair bit of stick from time to time and given back, no hard feelings, I’m only here to discuss racing as I’ve always said.
Have a good one all.
Have a good one all.
Ben's been declared a non-runner. How does that affect the betting on The Exchange for layers not on him?
Outrageous to make the fav a non runner. Another £million for the bookmakers as the first 4 are slashed in price. I am almost glad that I didn't get a penny back from my bets in the race. Why penalise those who backed the first four if a horse decided to put its foot on the side of the stalls?
Great result Christmas biggest winner antepost only backed the fav today so get they money back as well , happy days
That overhead shot the centre strip looks the best part of the ground
Congrats to the connections of Rebel Rocker. By Cityscape out of a mare that won a seller. $50k for finishing sixth might be the best prize of his career although you never know he might improve again for Faye Bramley and the owner/breeder.
uptheirons • June 6, 2026 4:24 PM BST
With whom?
You meant how much!
Enough not to work
With whom?
You meant how much!
Enough not to work
…”What do you see when you turn out the light?
I can't tell you, but I know it's mine…”
I get by.
I can't tell you, but I know it's mine…”
I get by.
BTW,I do not care what people have on,just that they actually did.
Especially with your "previous",Delbert.
Especially with your "previous",Delbert.
Delashay • May 6, 2026 3:32 PM BST
I don’t like this for the Derby was due (if we can believe them) to run in the trial at Epsom, do they have their doubts about acting at the track there?
Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s shuffled things to confuse punters who might automatically look to the Chester Vase winner for the Derby winner!
He’s priced now @ 2/1 Fav as if to emphasise this.
I don’t like this for the Derby was due (if we can believe them) to run in the trial at Epsom, do they have their doubts about acting at the track there?
Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s shuffled things to confuse punters who might automatically look to the Chester Vase winner for the Derby winner!
He’s priced now @ 2/1 Fav as if to emphasise this.
Delashay 04 Jun 26 18:44
Really fancy Item,think will step up for a bit of cut in the ground.
Really fancy Item,think will step up for a bit of cut in the ground.
Delashay • May 7, 2026 1:21 PM BST
Interesting that you think that he’ll only line up one Impossible.
I watched back the Ballysax stakes and suggest people have a listen to the interview at the end.
In it he says that the Winner Christmas Day was due to run in the Group 1 in France but got sick.
So he sent Bonnard, who was then made fav for the Derby cos of winning that even though he wasn’t the first choice, if we believe what he says.
Cellini moved to favouritism because of Bonnard flopping on reappearance. (He also mentioned that he was on the slow ground because Moore went inside with Italy (whose form isn’t looking so bad now.)
Chris Hayes who rode him said that he’ll stay 10f no problem so it was surprise to see him entered at Lingfield 1m 3 1/2f now withdrawn.
Should either of been favourite or are we having a replay of last year with TLIW and Delacroix?
Is there a Lambourn in the ranks still?
- - - - -
Interesting that you think that he’ll only line up one Impossible.
I watched back the Ballysax stakes and suggest people have a listen to the interview at the end.
In it he says that the Winner Christmas Day was due to run in the Group 1 in France but got sick.
So he sent Bonnard, who was then made fav for the Derby cos of winning that even though he wasn’t the first choice, if we believe what he says.
Cellini moved to favouritism because of Bonnard flopping on reappearance. (He also mentioned that he was on the slow ground because Moore went inside with Italy (whose form isn’t looking so bad now.)
Chris Hayes who rode him said that he’ll stay 10f no problem so it was surprise to see him entered at Lingfield 1m 3 1/2f now withdrawn.
Should either of been favourite or are we having a replay of last year with TLIW and Delacroix?
Is there a Lambourn in the ranks still?
- - - - -
Delashay • June 4, 2026 8:31 AM BST
Christmas Day was meant to run in the Group 1 at Saint Cloud, that says that AOB saw him as being a horse of that calibre as a 2 year Old.
He got sick and missed it, maybe he and Pierre were going to run not Endorsement but it shows he was held in high regard as a 2 year old.
Fast forward to around 42 and you’ll hear AOB confirm all of the above, “He got his Group race here with Jack then he was going to a Group 1 in France but he git sick….”
https://www.facebook.com/racingtv/videos/derby-favourite-pierre-bonnard-was-beaten-in-the-ballysax-stakes-at-leopardstown/1613556136595321/
I’m not bothered by the Jockey booking as Ronan was entrusted with Lambourn first up last year. This lad has two runs in him like Lambourn.
Ben unlike the others has only had the one which seems odd, normally only Guineas runners approach the Derby with that build up.
James Braddock impressed me with his kick when he got going, fear him.
Let’s hope it’s a good race!
Christmas Day was meant to run in the Group 1 at Saint Cloud, that says that AOB saw him as being a horse of that calibre as a 2 year Old.
He got sick and missed it, maybe he and Pierre were going to run not Endorsement but it shows he was held in high regard as a 2 year old.
Fast forward to around 42 and you’ll hear AOB confirm all of the above, “He got his Group race here with Jack then he was going to a Group 1 in France but he git sick….”
https://www.facebook.com/racingtv/videos/derby-favourite-pierre-bonnard-was-beaten-in-the-ballysax-stakes-at-leopardstown/1613556136595321/
I’m not bothered by the Jockey booking as Ronan was entrusted with Lambourn first up last year. This lad has two runs in him like Lambourn.
Ben unlike the others has only had the one which seems odd, normally only Guineas runners approach the Derby with that build up.
James Braddock impressed me with his kick when he got going, fear him.
Let’s hope it’s a good race!
Delashay • June 2, 2026 7:01 PM BST
Christmas Day looks overpriced to meMoore was criticised for his ride at York in the Dante where he went to the wrong part of the track.
I’d read somewhere that someone said that he looks a Leger horse, AOB has used the Dante for these in the past.
6 starts : 3 wins 2 reds unplaced on debut. Won on heavy.
OR: 109
TS: 106
RPR: 121
25/1
Now anyone got a score so I can get on?!
Christmas Day looks overpriced to meMoore was criticised for his ride at York in the Dante where he went to the wrong part of the track.
I’d read somewhere that someone said that he looks a Leger horse, AOB has used the Dante for these in the past.
6 starts : 3 wins 2 reds unplaced on debut. Won on heavy.
OR: 109
TS: 106
RPR: 121
25/1
Now anyone got a score so I can get on?!
Delashay • June 6, 2026 4:22 PM BST
Bay City Roller
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
And that’s what you call a bet.
Bay City Roller
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
And that’s what you call a bet.
We all know after having it off anywhere that bets aren’t taken! It only takes one!
And this was rolling into the Aga horse that wasn’t declared for the Diane @ 6/1 but I cashed out before it was scrapped by them!
So hush your mouth and show me any one bet over fav you’ve ever had!
Check the text all legit from the cut ‘n paste that was laughed at!
Who was the claimed bet with?
Not too difficult to prove,surely
Not too difficult to prove,surely
Carry with your singles, I’m Acca Bilk the supa buzzed up boost!
I will repeat,who was your claimed bet with,Bullshatter?
Dream of ever looking into the Bar numbers? 
I don’t think so!
I’d love to shoe all my print outs from Billies and SCROTe but they fade! Never liked Lads as they never gave prof of reciept when collecting!
I don’t think so!
I’d love to shoe all my print outs from Billies and SCROTe but they fade! Never liked Lads as they never gave prof of reciept when collecting!
Both horses talked of, some missed out, pre conceptions can affect a fragile and insecure mind!
My best is yet to come by the way! This ain’t my time of year.
My best is yet to come by the way! This ain’t my time of year.
Delashay • June 6, 2026 4:22 PM BST
Bay City Roller
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
And that’s what you call a bet.
Bay City Roller
@ 20/1
Coronation Cup
Won
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
Coronation Cup
Today
15:39
Christmas Day
@ 20/1
The Derby
Won
Each Way: 1/5 Odds, 3 Places
EPSOM DOWNS
The Derby
Today
16:16
And that’s what you call a bet.
But,ewho was it with,you utter Tard?
Someone losing control of the keypad! Revealing themself!
Someone losing control of the keypad!
Revealing themself!
A mythical Fantasy Island Bookmaker then?
Perhaps you are too shy to prove it.
Perhaps you are too shy to prove it.
Not at all,top2.
The Tard is a complete loon who doesn't actually bet on here and cannot show that he does
Perhaps you can help him out with an edited bet?
The Tard is a complete loon who doesn't actually bet on here and cannot show that he does
Perhaps you can help him out with an edited bet?
Tops - I’d say he’s gutted that my C&P spaced him out, meaning that he missed out!
I’m sure that the treb would have been landed too!
But the echways on Pink Pantera and Innis Mor were nice!
But the echways on Pink Pantera and Innis Mor were nice!
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