The Epsom Derby

For those looking at endorsement ew as i was , he is running at the curragh thursday night with moore jocked up so unlikely to be running.

Thanks,

Christmas Day looks overpriced to me, Moore was criticised for his ride at York in the Dante where he went to the wrong part of the track.
I’d read somewhere that someone said that he looks a Leger horse, AOB has used the Dante for these in the past.

6 starts : 3 wins 2 reds unplaced on debut. Won on heavy.

OR: 109
TS: 106
RPR: 121

25/1

Compare Pierre

OR: 109
TS: 103
RPR: 122

6/1

Like last year with Tennessee and Lazy Griff (sure stayers before the Derby) he could be one to be running on for a place.

Now anyone got a score so I can get on?!

1m4f Moore up. Strange he’s on a pacemaker,ha ha.

P.s. thanks Impossible

saxon farm 02 Jun 26 00:14
F*** off Delamoron and imbecile123
Between you dual handedly have ruined which should have been a sounding place of intelligent discussion.
One is an autistic self obsessed prat, and the other is an insult to anyone with glimmer of horseracing knowledge.Up at 6am infesting every fred with utter inconsequential inane shíte.

a concise and accurate critique.

Still disgruntled I see from earlier! Never mind giving anything to the thread you plebiscite.

I thought the Dante wasn’t great,but,it looks a decent race now.

Item beat blue courvorsior,2 back,that won Saturday,allthough hcp.

Christmas Day looks a stayer,st ledger,gold cup later.

Action ,ran well behind bow echo and hawk mountain.

I thought kings trail looked good,but not shown it.

Item beat all these in the Dante.

It looks a wide open race.

But item and action came up the best part of the track CUTH. Ryan was criticised for going so wide at York.

Christmas Day’s form in front of Causeway looks good he’s also beaten Endorsement.

Like Lambourn he’s been travelled this year unlike Pierre.

Also like Lambourn he’s started in the Ballysax before a trip to England for his next run. 

Lots had him earmarked as a Leger hacker before the Derby too.

Christmas Day was a horse I was thinking of when I made my earlier comment. He won a nothing race on heavy. Causeway was making his debut, but the others who finished close behind have done nothing to boost the form. I don't think Camelot/Sea The Stars shouts soft ground either. Of course punters/bookmakers have ignored that, and you are now faced with a shorter price, basically because he won that race on heavy.

dellawoffle posting all day..still hasnt offered a selleckshun...

#WAC

I’ve never professed to be a pedigree watcher let alone expert so I’ll take your word on it. I will say that it’s dangerous to look at one race and judge a horse by those that it beat in that race.

That was bourne out recently at Sandown in the Brigader DD when Pen and I were discussing.


penzance • May 28, 2026 2:32 PM BST

The 2ND in the Mkt,Gethin,the race he won @ Kempton (Magnolia Stks),every
horse to run after that has been well beat mostly.Both the 2ND & 3RD ran
in the same race @ Sandown on their next start,were 4TH & 5TH,hammered.


Delashay • May 28, 2026 3:20 PM BST
Pen they weren’t exactly short next time, one was 7/2 came the second, next 9/1 the others any price you like. Think he’s better judged on the runs that mentioned.


Also take Adel from that race and it puts it in a different light. He was beat 7L by Hawk Mountain the race before then 10 1/2L by Christmas Day in that nothing race.

You may well be right that he won’t handle the ground in a better race, but he has shown he can win on it.

Delbert is an obsessive,Autistic loon with F/A else to do all day

I have a link if anyone is interested in hearing what Aiden said?

It might make you consider things differently with regards who was rated good enough for a Group 1 as a 2 year old.

I wouldn't be thinking of using a horse now rated 76 to upgrade that form.

saxon farm 02 Jun 26 00:14
F*** off Delamoron and imbecile123
Between you dual handedly have ruined which should have been a sounding place of intelligent discussion.
One is an autistic self obsessed prat, and the other is an insult to anyone with glimmer of horseracing knowledge.Up at 6am infesting every fred with utter inconsequential inane shíte.

a concise and accurate critique.

It’s not upgrading DD it’s comparing form two races apart, form which includes a Group 1 winner and recently placed in a Group 1.
They were both lightly raced 2 year olds. Hawk and Christmas when they both beat the same horse. Perhaps it was beaten further by CD because of the ground.

6am posting shíte...10-30 still posting shíte...getalife ys boring silly knt.

Like Aceform,Delbert has skin like a Rhino

Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?

Unlike you I’ve actually seen his paintings in the flesh, you should try a little culture yourself.

But does he know who wins the Derby?

Actually if others can’t report the post for the sake of the thread then you’re giving in to a bully.

I couldn’t care what I’m called, I’ve been called everything under the sun, being an artist means I don’t care about others opinions as I have a vision of my own and I stand by the work that I produce.
It allows me to work from home studio so I can post whenever and this is my favourite time of year in racing.

ABBA Pierre Bonnard has form which is linked on more than one occasion to Endorsement.

He went into Derby favouritism on the basis of wining a weak Group 1 @ 2.

Christmas Day gave that colt 3lb in the Balkysax and has done more in doing so than what we’ve seen Pierre do on the track this year.

Lots has been made of Ben winning with a penalty but nothing has been said about what CD did first time out.

aOB spoke lots after the Balkysax about how Pierre was inside and on the wrong part of the track, the worst ground but as he had a penalty Moore sat and suffered.

He said forgive that run and next time we saw him in a better light.

Christmas Day has been written off for being on the wrong part of the track at York.

Nothing from his Zealand win at Newmarket has won since. Only A Boy named Susie makes the Saint Cloud run look any good.

And AOB has said that he’ll stay further than the Derby trip, he’s single figures despite being loosely as a Leger horse.
Yes he’ll go on the ground but the form isn’t there.

dellawoffle infests ev fred in the forum with inconsequential woffle and now is asking others to report a post.

ewe cudnt make it up.

Give an opinion Julian in, share your knowledge, I might be wrong and Pierre might bolt up, so be it.

a new low for the forums most boring woffler..

now changed name to Delagrasser.

Yes I reported a post that had nothing to do with the thread, problem?

It never hurt so that wasn’t the reason but you’d found the longest copy and pastes to post as you know in a vain attempt to disrupt things.

You’ve been offered to join in and give a view and declined, good day.

It was minor compared to the relentless and seemingly endless waffle from Delbert who clearly belongs in a Secure Unit and has now sunk to being a Grass.
All this pony and the Autistic loon doesn't even bet on here

Delashay 03 Jun 26 10:31 
Yes I reported a post that had nothing to do with the thread, problem?

pmsl..this from the tard that infests 90% of freds with inconsequential nonsense

Delashay • June 3, 2026 10:23 AM BST
Give an opinion join in, share your knowledge…

That’s directed at all posters, the offers been made, you’ve since shown you’ve no interest in doing so.

Delashay 02 Jun 26 15:12 
Jul 17, 2025 -- 9:53PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:

11yr olds on the school field out my living room window…

delagrasser edited my post to imtimate i was watching children..well son,ewe lit the fuse.

capiche?

Nothing was edited so stop your lies.

post the whole comment ydc.

Discuss the Derby

Rico-Dangleflaps17 Jul 25 21:53
11yr olds on the school field out my living room window would give any of these teams a decent game..fkn sh1te.

the whole comment ..what a lowlife ewe are.

Dish it out when it suits but screaming to mods when its twirled? Sad man delashay.

It actually seems that the chief of dishing it out can’t take it back, mocks the , “Hurty hurty” types and becomes one himself.

He’d posted two long posts here copy and pastes which were off topic and kept on posting to try to stop any discussion.

People may not have seen those, but give the mods some credit that they can see that they are off topic and could choose to remove.

Blame me, call me whatever.

I’m ok to leave it all there clean the slate, if you don’t like my posts block me, end of.

No hard feelings and good luck.

AOB's declared 4, but as yet no confirmation of riding plan.

The weather is overcast, but no precipitation in Sutton / Cheam.

I would be surprised if Delbert even has a funded BF A/C.
A non betting King Waffler

Calandagan was 10/11 with numbers yesterday, now 2nd fav because of the doubt that he’ll show.

Delbert's idea of discussion in him making hundreds of posts on the same subject without ever giving a Back or Lay.
Nobody in their right mind would entertain a debate with the Autistic loon

No betting for this race. I'm astounded given The Exchange is the major platform for betting on horseracing. Get a grip, Betfair. All the horseracing journos and presenters promotions are bunkum if one cannot bet on the race.

Yes, Calandagan is weak. He's out to 9/4 given his uncertain participation due to the probable prevailing ground. If absent, Jan Brueghel (6/4) will probably be odds-on come saturday.

The draw is at 11.30am, I think.

There is betting  for the Coronation Cup ?,the Mkt is under A/Post on here.
Books have got it priced up aswell.

Endorsement not declared, so got that right, but unfortunately, the horse I was interested in, also not declared. So no interest in either Classic.

Ben (12); Bonnard (8); Action (11); Christmas Day (5); Item (3); Maltese (1); Bay Of Brilliance (9); Braddock (13). Others.

In order of stalls, we go:

1. Maltese Cross
2. Balzac
3. Item
4. Poker
5. Christmas Day
6. Alderman
7. A Taste Of Glory
8. Pierre Bonnard
9. Bay Of Brilliance
10. Ancient Egypt
11. Action
12. Benvenuto Cellini
13. James J Braddock
14. Rebel Rocker

AOB has reached for them again, Action has CP 1st time

They report live on the RP that rain is falling.

Coronation Cup is up, DD I’m guessing you liked Causeway

I’ll have a look….

Liked might be going a little far, but I was interested in Proposition at 100/1.

I liked the way he finished at Chester despite being sacrificed as a pacemaker. Don't think ground or track suited him at all. More galloping track, and softer ground, I think would have been a much better fit. Decent pedigree, definite stayer, and only three starts so open to more improvement than others. Presumably, would have gone from the front. If it is testing then they could have been really stretched out with only a handful involved, and I think he might well have been one of them. The only negative for me was the cheekpieces. All that doesn't matter a jot now. No idea why he isn't running as although he might not have been good enough to win, I think he would have been more suited to conditions than those they are running.

Any idea of the horses weights delashay?

all 9st hugo ydc.

Cheers for the clarity, I’d not see the CP’s as a negative as his horses literally have Velcro sideburns for then to attach to this year!

In kilograms rico,delashay will know surely.

They all carry 9st 2lbs.
I think AOB would have Christmas Day and Action to the fore, with Ben just behind the two; Pierre would be tracking these. This formation could protect his principals ie Ben and Pierre, and extract the last ounce of stamina of Item esp if the going is on the easy side or soft.

Item could be a big danger if handling the ground condition and staying 12f.

56.6kg

your testicoolies?

Thought this could be an interesting thread about racing. So well done Del. Why don't the little group who like to insult each other and talk absolute crap about other things just get themselves a little Whatsapp group and leave this forum to people who want to talk racing and betting. 'Poast your bet' I hear. No strong feeling but, bred by a Derby winner out of a mare by Camelot, Ifancy Maltese Cross and the second in that Lingfield trial

Could have been an interesting thread, Del.

"The rainfall kept coming on Wednesday, so it gets into the soil profile and particularly down the home straight I've just started to think there's bits that aren't a million miles off soft in places. I could see it easing a bit further."

It still can be Dr.

Is there a chance that they will pull the fav if it does go soft all round?

He has the daisy cutting action of a fast ground horse and what he said here struck me at the time.


Alex Scott,  RUK
@alexs_racing

Albert Einstein followed by Benvenuto Cellini after exercise this morning. “We think [Benvenuto Cellini] is a 1m4f horse that wouldn’t be going any further and he could come back to 1m2f. Pierre Bonnard would have no problem going up to 1m6f,” says Aidan O’Brien.

impossible123 03 Jun 26 14:35 

56.6kg

9 stone 2 lb is 58.06 kg

Implausible is beyond help,AIS

Feast your eyes on these:

https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/results/2025-07-14/killarney/868127/irish-stallion-farms-ebf-maiden

https://www.racingpost.com/results/185/killarney/2025-07-14/899542

Who’s right, who’s wrong?

Spot what I mean?

"Look how clever I Am"

One does the math for you the other doesn’t, so what do we deduce? That Ben gave Endorsement 2lb more in its maiden when it was with a claimed and that means more than when CD met him in a G3 as 3year olds?

Not at all, I was asked a pretty vague question earlier re: weights, I’m not into guessing and prefer straight talk.

CD met him * in a G3 as 3year olds? (first time out)

I deduce that you still haven't posted your claimed Trade in the French Derby,Delbert.
It takes seconds to do,Bullshatter

It works like magic.
Ask Delbert to post his bets and he disappears

Delashay • June 3, 2026 9:19 AM BST
Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?

We agree that you should post your "claimed Trade"in the French Derby.
Perhaps you have difficulty with C&P

Anybody would think that you were telling porkies,Delbert

The reason that I’ve asked this question is, what if another horse was due to contest that race?

It could mean (because we don’t know that it would have won) that there could have been another anti post favourite for the Derby.

Last year we had two false favourites for the Derby, one a miler another a 10f horse.

No sign of your claimed bet then,Delbert

Dr. And everyone else I hope that you’ll not stop with  putting your thoughts up because of the ignorant ones, that will only give them delight. As we know it’s be short lived and they’ll be back looking for another quick fix.

Maybe the favourite will hack up, he’s not rated as high as Item, the ground could be a concern and he’s still available at 2/1 despite Moore being booked and the draw being made, plus he won the favoured trial with a penalty.

Something about that doesn’t seem right, not being shorter.

uptheirons • June 3, 2026 9:06 PM BST
No sign of your claimed bet then,Delbert

fck sake the forums most boring still posting inane nonsense ev 5 mins...getalife ya dc.

I like Benvenuto. He looked very classy last year and his win at Chester makes him the most likely winner.
But there has to be a question over his ability to handle soft ground as his action is of a good ground horse.

Item had the benefit of racing on the best part of the track at York, and is easily past over at around 4/1 for this.

Pierre Bonard looked to be a Derby contender last year with his wins at Newmarket and Saint Cloud. Even though OBrien says he has improved again since his last run, I think he should have been good enough to have won his trial. I prefer to look at performances on the track not what the trai error says.

I won't have a bet until we see what the ground is like on Friday. As it seems most clerks can not provide correct going descriptions.

Two horses i like at a price are Christmas Day and Ancient Egypt. Both are bred with plenty of stamina, and have shown they have ability to get in the mix here.

Nice clear write with reasons given Brandy, I think you’ll like this with what you’ve said in mind.


“Missed his final start at two when picking up a temperature…”

From the SL https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/betfred-derby-tips-horse-by-horse-guide-preview-and-selection-for-epsom-downs/232436

It’s why is asked the forum this :

”Do we all agree that Pierre Bonnard was made favourite for the Derby on the basis of his backend Group 1 win @ Saint - Cloud?”

“The reason that I’ve asked this question is, what if another horse was due to contest that race?”

Are people putting the pieces together now?

Christmas Day was meant to run in the Group 1 at Saint Cloud, that says that AOB saw him as being a horse of that calibre as a 2 year Old.

He got sick and missed it, maybe he and Pierre were going to run not Endorsement but it shows he was held in high regard as a 2 year old.

Fast forward to around 42 and you’ll hear AOB confirm all of the above, “He got his Group race here with Jack then he was going to a Group 1 in France but he git sick….”

https://www.facebook.com/racingtv/videos/derby-favourite-pierre-bonnard-was-beaten-in-the-ballysax-stakes-at-leopardstown/1613556136595321/

I’m not bothered by the Jockey booking as Ronan was entrusted with Lambourn first up last year. This lad has two runs in him like Lambourn.

Ben unlike the others has only had the one which seems odd, normally only Guineas runners approach the Derby with that build up.

James Braddock impressed me with his kick when he got going, fear him.

Let’s hope it’s a good race!

Benvenuto cellini surely no need to look any further looks a good thing if weather is not heavy.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Balding barn threw the cat amongst the Coolmore lot tbh.

tiger or tabby,dave?

Could this be a selection from the bet editing Lorry Driver?
I am sure he will tell us after if it wins

We've had 7 classics now run between England, Ireland & France. AOB has taken 5 of them with 5 different horses. He's got 3 further fillies in the Oaks tomorrow and 3 further colts in the Derby on Saturday.

Even by his lofty standards, that's an incredible group of 3 year olds this year, of both sexes. And both Oaks and Derby favs won at Chester.

It is very hard to think beyond those facts.

You could take an opposing view that the opposition wasn't up to much,Jumper.

Some of the horses that one easy on derby day hardly ever went on to win another race,

Jun 4, 2026 -- 11:54AM, uptheirons wrote:

You could take an opposing view that the opposition wasn't up to much,Jumper.

Yes, you could. But across 7 races??

One of those he didn't get, the 2000 at Newmarket, his second there went on to take the Irish equivalent. 4th and 8th in the French 2,000 won by Graffard's Rayif.

It is safe to assume that Coolmore have the game by the gonads at the moment,Jumper.
A superbly organised operation.

Might be of interest.
T.Form Top 9 (S/Life).

Benvenuto Cellini - 130p
Item -              129p
Bay Of Brilliance - 128p
Maltese Cross -     128p
Christmas Day -     125p
Action -            125
Anceint Egypt -     123p
James J Braddock -  123p
Pierre Bonnard -    123p

RIP Timeform.

Just because O'Brien is mopping up the Classics doesn't make any of those horses close to being great.

A resurrection has occured,Delbert,you filthy Grass

uptheirons • June 4, 2026 12:31 PM BST
It is safe to assume that Coolmore have the game by the gonads at the moment,Jumper.
A superbly organised operation.

They certainly don’t.

As for your last post, had he ever gone away? I didn’t think so did I!

I don’t see any update on the post with reports of the ground or if they had any rain or how much at Epsom, nothing but multiple people giving their tips.

loks quite a bit rain forecast tomorrow even up to ko time.

They only had 4 mm yesterday and the clerk of the course has said that it’s drying.

Do we see Endorsement wining a family race yesterday as form franking?

Definitely looks as though the Oaks will be run on softer ground than the Derby unless they get a deluge overnight

The key to the going is tomorrow. Precipitation is forecast for early next morning.