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31 May 26
15:51
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22 Apr 04
But gets him the Tricast, vwd Sir.
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You win races in France by being on or up with the pace. French jockeys love to 'finish with a
flourish from last to first'. Give me an American jockey with an American trainer and some US
sprinters and it would be like taking candy from a baby in the sprint divisions.
flourish from last to first'. Give me an American jockey with an American trainer and some US
sprinters and it would be like taking candy from a baby in the sprint divisions.
A race that will be remembered for the tactics, and not much else. Montreal was sacrificed and still finished a relatively close third. Had Constitution River been their only runner would he have won? I think doubtful. The rest of the field finished in a closing heap, but were never at the races. A race that was great for the Coolmore gang, but for anyone else?
It was a magnificent training performance did and a great result for the sport.
What was to stop the other jockeys not allowing them a relatively easy time in front?
2ND fastest Derbi in the new format
Not hanging around
Not hanging around
Think Aidan has got the game locked up, that was a masterclass!
How was it a great result for the sport? As far as I can see it was great result for Coolmore and those who want to continue to hype the winner, basically the cheerleading media. Not as if O'Brien can't be relied upon to do that himself.
Time will tell, but beyond the tactical hyperbole, my guess would be that it won't ever be remembered as anything other than an average renewal. The draw was taken out the equation by the way the race was won. The wide draw is only difficult when you are forced to race out wide for a considerable distance. As it was it couldn't have been easier for Moore to get across. So the winner has ended beating second and third by less than a length, and the third was effectively sacrificed for the winner. Are the second and third potential greats? I doubt it. A sixteen runner race was just turned into a three horse race. Not sure that is a great look for racing.
Time will tell, but beyond the tactical hyperbole, my guess would be that it won't ever be remembered as anything other than an average renewal. The draw was taken out the equation by the way the race was won. The wide draw is only difficult when you are forced to race out wide for a considerable distance. As it was it couldn't have been easier for Moore to get across. So the winner has ended beating second and third by less than a length, and the third was effectively sacrificed for the winner. Are the second and third potential greats? I doubt it. A sixteen runner race was just turned into a three horse race. Not sure that is a great look for racing.
differentdrum
You are nothing but a sad negative individual who finds bad in everything and good in nothing.
If you ever gave a semblance of praise on here rather than constant moaning and grumbling, you might just gain a little credibility.
Just try to be a little more even handed.
You are nothing but a sad negative individual who finds bad in everything and good in nothing.
If you ever gave a semblance of praise on here rather than constant moaning and grumbling, you might just gain a little credibility.
Just try to be a little more even handed.
It was a magnificent training performance did and a great result for the sport.
100%
I'm not knocking anyone who has a different opinion, but not all champions win by Frankel-like distances, i think we saw a really good horse today and it's possible he will end up as the best 3-year old in Europe this season.
100%
I'm not knocking anyone who has a different opinion, but not all champions win by Frankel-like distances, i think we saw a really good horse today and it's possible he will end up as the best 3-year old in Europe this season.
I’d written this on the AP Derby thread and I’d like someone to give a straight answer.
Delashay • May 25, 2026 3:59 PM BST
Trainers are creatures of habit and I look at what they do over what they say. It’s a brave person who’s laying him on the reports that France IS the race for him.
That being the case, no point in running Hawk Mountain or Montreal who’ve both prepped there.
Just run the one colt, say what you’ll do without all the bolaaaax and go try and win it for the 3rd time!
- - - - - - - - -
Question :
Could he have done it without the help of his two stable mates?
Delashay • May 25, 2026 3:59 PM BST
Trainers are creatures of habit and I look at what they do over what they say. It’s a brave person who’s laying him on the reports that France IS the race for him.
That being the case, no point in running Hawk Mountain or Montreal who’ve both prepped there.
Just run the one colt, say what you’ll do without all the bolaaaax and go try and win it for the 3rd time!
- - - - - - - - -
Question :
Could he have done it without the help of his two stable mates?
Then question how running those effected the others in the race.
Loading the pacemaker last wasn’t fair, it was sport, it’s not the gentlemanly thing to do, it all on the verge of cheating. It’s a thin line that they trod and backers will crow how great it was but that’s a tainted opinion based on money,
Loading the pacemaker last wasn’t fair, it was sport, it’s not the gentlemanly thing to do, it all on the verge of cheating. It’s a thin line that they trod and backers will crow how great it was but that’s a tainted opinion based on money,
And by the DD thanks for coming to my thread about the race and not given any thoughts on it except goading me and asking for a selection.
I hope now in this light you understand why I discuss the race and likely events!
It’s obvious you were stitched up too, most likely backed one of the home team.
I hope now in this light you understand why I discuss the race and likely events!
It’s obvious you were stitched up too, most likely backed one of the home team.
Delashay,
This is my straight answer.
You are asking a hyperthetical question of no relevance, or is even debatable. CR won the race, end of. Just accept the best horse won on the day and move on.
This is my straight answer.
You are asking a hyperthetical question of no relevance, or is even debatable. CR won the race, end of. Just accept the best horse won on the day and move on.
Loading the pacemaker last wasn’t fair
It was not against the rules in any way. Did the starter/stall handlers know he was going to make the running ? Most pundits and punters alike expected Hankelow to lead from stall 1. I've already posted the rules of loading stalls in France.
It was not against the rules in any way. Did the starter/stall handlers know he was going to make the running ? Most pundits and punters alike expected Hankelow to lead from stall 1. I've already posted the rules of loading stalls in France.
No that’s not an answer, could he have done it without them and how would it have affected the others?
Why NOT just run the one?
You do realise that Hawk Mountain was on the same rating, that gave them an advantage, having the two top rated running in the first 3.
If you can’t see that you’re biased.
Why NOT just run the one?
You do realise that Hawk Mountain was on the same rating, that gave them an advantage, having the two top rated running in the first 3.
If you can’t see that you’re biased.
I don’t care if it’s within the rules it’s not sport, it’s not the done thing, it’s win at all cost.
If you’ve the best horse run it alone, Treve, Zarkava didn’t need these tactics.
So please don’t big up this until he can do what they did without gang help.
If you’ve the best horse run it alone, Treve, Zarkava didn’t need these tactics.
So please don’t big up this until he can do what they did without gang help.
I saw what was happening during the loading process and when Montreal was rousted by Lordon it was like watching Lambourn grab the lead in last years Derby.
That’s the fault of the other jockeys for letting them dictate but they had the horses with rating able to help & dictate, that’s the point.
That’s the fault of the other jockeys for letting them dictate but they had the horses with rating able to help & dictate, that’s the point.
you have to use the tools at your disposal to your advantage ,they did that and it was very effective as the result showed ,if the other jocks didnt react to it thats down to them . i hate it when the favs win but if you let classicaly bred staying types have their own way out in front and dont anticipate or react to what may happen then it will continue to happen ,dont be suprised of a similar outcome at epsom this weekend.
Foyles I’m aware that they can and will do that and agree the other jocks are donuts to put it bluntly.
We approach things in a similar way.
Take out his team mates and he wouldn’t have had such a cosy passage. The others scrimmaging in behind for position would have been able to press him at their pace and run their races and not have theirs and how they run dictated to them.
Thats the point of me asking could he have done it on his own? Most likely yes.
As said Treve won an Arc from a wide draw all on her own running. That’s the difference with a champion.
Those crowing this result have short memories, to last years Derby when the 2/1 fav was never in the race and they pulled a stroke.
The other favourite before he was outed lasted 1m 1f the distance he’s basically been dropped back to.
I agree with you we might have a similar outcome this weekend and backers will be hoping that they are on the right side of it come the result.
I asked why this Ben isn’t shorter than 2/1 a week out with Moore, the favoured trial win etc, etc…
We’ll see but I won’t be playing hoping that they’ll run honestly on merit.
We approach things in a similar way.
Take out his team mates and he wouldn’t have had such a cosy passage. The others scrimmaging in behind for position would have been able to press him at their pace and run their races and not have theirs and how they run dictated to them.
Thats the point of me asking could he have done it on his own? Most likely yes.
As said Treve won an Arc from a wide draw all on her own running. That’s the difference with a champion.
Those crowing this result have short memories, to last years Derby when the 2/1 fav was never in the race and they pulled a stroke.
The other favourite before he was outed lasted 1m 1f the distance he’s basically been dropped back to.
I agree with you we might have a similar outcome this weekend and backers will be hoping that they are on the right side of it come the result.
I asked why this Ben isn’t shorter than 2/1 a week out with Moore, the favoured trial win etc, etc…
We’ll see but I won’t be playing hoping that they’ll run honestly on merit.
Just goes to show when even their third string is better than the opposition.
Are you aware of what the third string was rated by the French Hanicapper?
I’ve only watched the race once but have noticed something interesting from just seeing the photo after the stalls opened.
What I saw is reflected in the finish.
Those drawn high who were perceived to be at a disadvantage were in fact advantaged by how the race was run.
Result by draw :
15 > > joint top rated
11 > > joint top rated
8 -
13 - 37/1
16 - 100/1
6
10
5 - 4th top rated (Gostom)
2 - 5th top rated (Pearled Majesty)
7 - 2nd top rated (Komorebi)
9
3 - 4th top rated (Oxogon)
1 - 3rd top rated (Hankelow)
12
4
14
Why is this? Because those drawn low (which you’d see from the photo) were in a bunch fighting for position along the rail. They weren’t able to use their strides effectively or get into a racing rhythm.
Those in front could stride on whilst the big priced finishers were able to one run down the outside and on the inside past horses who’d had already spent their energy early.
Yes it was clever, but it’s NOT the making of a champion, the bunched finish reflects how they were helped in the running.
What I saw is reflected in the finish.
Those drawn high who were perceived to be at a disadvantage were in fact advantaged by how the race was run.
Result by draw :
15 > > joint top rated
11 > > joint top rated
8 -
13 - 37/1
16 - 100/1
6
10
5 - 4th top rated (Gostom)
2 - 5th top rated (Pearled Majesty)
7 - 2nd top rated (Komorebi)
9
3 - 4th top rated (Oxogon)
1 - 3rd top rated (Hankelow)
12
4
14
Why is this? Because those drawn low (which you’d see from the photo) were in a bunch fighting for position along the rail. They weren’t able to use their strides effectively or get into a racing rhythm.
Those in front could stride on whilst the big priced finishers were able to one run down the outside and on the inside past horses who’d had already spent their energy early.
Yes it was clever, but it’s NOT the making of a champion, the bunched finish reflects how they were helped in the running.
If you’ve the best horse run it alone
Coolmore is the largest breeding operation in the world and AOB has circa 200 hores in his stable at times. In Timeforms rating list of top 20 3-year olds, AOB trains 8 of them, where is he meant to run them all ?
No different to Willie Mullins.
Coolmore is the largest breeding operation in the world and AOB has circa 200 hores in his stable at times. In Timeforms rating list of top 20 3-year olds, AOB trains 8 of them, where is he meant to run them all ?
No different to Willie Mullins.
I’ve said that none of the 3 were entered for the Group 2 Prix Eugene Adam, NOR were any of the 6 scratched from this!
Is that not a race that any of them could take in?!!?
Or those who’ll run on Saturday in the Derby and NOT stay?
So don’t make excuses for having so many horses in the stable please Andrew.
Is that not a race that any of them could take in?!!?
Or those who’ll run on Saturday in the Derby and NOT stay?
So don’t make excuses for having so many horses in the stable please Andrew.
Well said Foyles , always a possibility and he has form viz 2020 Serpentine , all credit to him .
Delbert still ranting on about life is not fair.
Grow up man,you are not a twelve year old (although you behave like one)
Grow up man,you are not a twelve year old (although you behave like one)
Thanks for being nice yesterday and wishing me luck, you also did something very rare, you ventured to give an opinion about the horse and his suitability to a mile and half.
That came from having seen the race so it’s important to look back, a person who’s stopped learning is ready to hang their hat up for good.
That came from having seen the race so it’s important to look back, a person who’s stopped learning is ready to hang their hat up for good.
I’ve said that none of the 3 were entered for the Group 2 Prix Eugene Adam, NOR were any of the 6 scratched from this!
Is that not a race that any of them could take in?!!?
Delashay
Not a race AOB targets and he has never had a runner in this race, so why wait until June 28th to let Hawk Mountain, joint highest rated in the Prix du Jockey Club field and a course winner go to Saint Cloud for a G2.
Did it escape your notice that Francis Graffard had 2 runners in the race (5/1 and 11/1) both Aga Khans, as he often does in group races. He has the same reasons as AOB, a multitude of horses in the stable (at times more than AOB) and they have to run somewhere, often in the same races.
Is that not a race that any of them could take in?!!?
Delashay
Not a race AOB targets and he has never had a runner in this race, so why wait until June 28th to let Hawk Mountain, joint highest rated in the Prix du Jockey Club field and a course winner go to Saint Cloud for a G2.
Did it escape your notice that Francis Graffard had 2 runners in the race (5/1 and 11/1) both Aga Khans, as he often does in group races. He has the same reasons as AOB, a multitude of horses in the stable (at times more than AOB) and they have to run somewhere, often in the same races.
You can’t say why he hasn’t entered a single horse for a Group 2 over 10f and no mention was made of running Hawjk Mountain or Montreal.
There are 7 left in the Derby not all are Group 1 horses over 1m 4F or even 1m 2F!
So it seems he really should be targeting a race that’s there for the taking considering lots of the also rans from the Jockey club are entered in it!
There are 7 left in the Derby not all are Group 1 horses over 1m 4F or even 1m 2F!
So it seems he really should be targeting a race that’s there for the taking considering lots of the also rans from the Jockey club are entered in it!
And regarding the Aga Mikel also chose wrongly last year. Or was told what to ride because those connections like to have it off too!
Graffard only had 1 Aga horse in the race,Daryzan.
The other rnr Dolmalan is trained by Delzangles.
The other rnr Dolmalan is trained by Delzangles.
Jun 1, 2026 -- 8:26AM, FOYLESWAR wrote:
you have to use the tools at your disposal to your advantage ,they did that and it was very effective as the result showed ,if the other jocks didnt react to it thats down to them . i hate it when the favs win but if you let classicaly bred staying types have their
Graffard only had 1 Aga horse in the race,Daryzan.
The other rnr Dolmalan is trained by Delzangles.
I stand corrected. Apologies
The other rnr Dolmalan is trained by Delzangles.
I stand corrected. Apologies
the other trainers /connections must be aware of what could happen but seems just sat back and let it ,imagine a football team talk ,manager.......ok lads this messi can play a bit but dont bother marking him or pressuring him just let him run at yers cant see him doing that much damage.
Found, Highland Reel and Order of St George in The ARC 2016. The others eg Postponed were out-manoeuvred.
They weren't out manouvered, they wasn't good enough.
There was a pace maker in that race & it was for the
Aga Khan.Found went past Postponed as if his legs were
tied together.Another top training performance.
There was a pace maker in that race & it was for the
Aga Khan.Found went past Postponed as if his legs were
tied together.Another top training performance.
Richard Birch, tipster
It is a marker for the other middle-distance three-year-olds, for sure. I would be surprised if it matched the level of Bow Echo on ratings, because the race on Sunday was set up to help Constitution River win from stall 15 rather than for him to post a big figure…
.
It is a marker for the other middle-distance three-year-olds, for sure. I would be surprised if it matched the level of Bow Echo on ratings, because the race on Sunday was set up to help Constitution River win from stall 15 rather than for him to post a big figure…
.
LL for me. Just not sure her jock is intelligent at Epsom.
Jun 5, 2026 -- 3:51PM, wondersobright wrote:
on message & k sarra both e/w gl
sat off strong pace right working check
no good 
Nice to see Dad say Joey was full of it for this horse after!
The apple doesn’t fall far, Joey saying this might not show up during the week!
The apple doesn’t fall far, Joey saying this might not show up during the week!
The young man Joseph can train. He's won many races for non-Coolmore owned horses. And, I think he's also a lucky chap.
Joseph O'Brien has warning for punters over Oaks prospect gambled into 8-1 from 16-1
Thundering On has been the subject of a significant gamble in the Betfred Oaks but trainer Joseph O'Brien says the filly is not certain to head to Epsom, with the Prix de Diane also an option.
O'Brien said on Sunday: "A final decision is yet to be made on Thundering On as she has the option of the Diane or Epsom. It'll be one of those two. The Diane is looking strong and the Oaks is looking strong too but maybe a bit more open.
Daddy said mine stand no chance son and I’ll win the Diane!
Thundering On has been the subject of a significant gamble in the Betfred Oaks but trainer Joseph O'Brien says the filly is not certain to head to Epsom, with the Prix de Diane also an option.
O'Brien said on Sunday: "A final decision is yet to be made on Thundering On as she has the option of the Diane or Epsom. It'll be one of those two. The Diane is looking strong and the Oaks is looking strong too but maybe a bit more open.
Daddy said mine stand no chance son and I’ll win the Diane!
She’s being saved for the Coronation at Ascot John because they felt that True Love didn’t get the stiff mile at the Curragh.
This race was ran slow like the Chester Oaks trial, completely different to how the Vase was run which was fast, false a certain favourite on the basis of that.
This race was ran slow like the Chester Oaks trial, completely different to how the Vase was run which was fast, false a certain favourite on the basis of that.
I can recall Joseph advising caution on a gambled on filly of his for The Oaks. But, I did not get her name. In one ear, out the other with me.
I backed the 2nd to win, and for 3-places at 'even' money. No loss in the race.
I backed the 2nd to win, and for 3-places at 'even' money. No loss in the race.
That’s good Impossible, didn’t get to see her before the race.
I’d said that Amelia might not like Epsom so it’s no surprise that those behind her at Chester reversed form.
I’d said that Amelia might not like Epsom so it’s no surprise that those behind her at Chester reversed form.
We can expect the same in the Derby tomorrow, the Pinza movement from the pacemakers.
Delashay • May 6, 2026 3:27 PM BST
I think AE changed legs in the straight, camber might not be to her liking and might affect her ability to fly home at Epsom!
- - - -
It’s the details that matter, written on the day of the Chester Oaks.
I think AE changed legs in the straight, camber might not be to her liking and might affect her ability to fly home at Epsom!
- - - -
It’s the details that matter, written on the day of the Chester Oaks.
Amazingly,I did not take the trouble to read the endless and relentless pony that you write,Delbert.
Naturaly,you will now post your Lay of the Fav
Naturaly,you will now post your Lay of the Fav
The dad will probably win the big one tomorrow. His cavalry will ensure the race is Coolmore bound.
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