Fourteen races at Newcastle and Lingfield

hi stew are you still absolutely useless at picking winners mate

AW Champions Day. How it's changed. No big guns in sight. He who pays the piper...

notice there's no Godolphin entries at the AW finals day.

I remember when they used to have multiple entries in each race, shows how much its fallen in terms of prestige since its inception.

lost a lot of its aura for me when it moved to Newcastle, shocking decision imo

Used to be a cracking day's racing for AW fans. Now, same as any other Thursady night, Friday night series or whatever it's now called, bookies benefit day.

I would rather watch The Sound Of Music on B.B.C. 1......And i cant stand that Film.

Stick to the curragh......plenty of pacers and forecasts .......

Lingfield where I would usually be looking for something looks a no go. Bigger the field bigger the certainty? Not when you are running around a bend with 12 - 15 runners or at Newcastle playing jockeys on a straight track where the going varies as much as the pace or lack of it.

Only a million in prize money and no non runners

Over 70 races in the u s of a this evening......no handis I'm guessin

Well i hope some of the handicaps are easier to solve than the "class" race at 1.15 - 7 runners and we have a 1-2 at 25/1 and 18/1 sp
And first race at the Curragh- non handicap, 18/1 winner, unraced 2 year old of course, who can bet on that, rather have a handicap to solve !

Some of you gloombuckets should remember that bank holiday racing is traditionally when many casual racegoers attend who wouldn't recognise a Derby winner from a selling plater, they just want to enjoy the day out and have a few bets on competitive fields that are open betting heats. There are plenty of other days throughout the year for the group horses to strut their stuff and for the battle hardened, grizzled old Betfair forumites to win their millions

It’s the beginning of the month. Stew doesn’t have any funds until the middle of it!

What a bore! Not one "known" horse (to me) is running on Good Friday. I do not think tomorrow is any better either.

Yep. If only this sport had journalists that would raise a word of criticism. But they can't cos the bookies' advertising spend is more important.

Really? It is far better than most Friday cards in my book and better than any other day in the year on the AW. Never heard of Tyrrhenian Sea or Teumissias Fox. Really?

imp - you obviously don't follow the all weather through the winter so why would you expect to know many of today's runners ? 

How many "known" horses would you have expected to see this early in the turf season before the advent of a/w racing ?

I knew some of the horses that ran in the Winter Derby. Today is Good Friday, and I've expected a higher standard of horses running.

Cracking prize money, decent fields, liquidity looked okay considering no one was supposed to be interested. If you don't like it don't punt it, I can't see the issue

I'm sure AW Finals Day had more listed and conditions races even in recent years. Not just handicaps.

What amuses me about the 'if you don't like it, don't punt' view is that it misses the point. In any other area of sport, society and culture objective criticism is seen as healthy. In racing it's seen as a sort of weakness or betrayal. Why? Is it because the only committed players are betting shop habitues sort of thing ie don't care what is served up as long as something is? The issue here is 'here's why I'm not punting', something that the industry ought to take note of. It has a poor reputation and that is aggravated by the whole all-weather lark. I took one look today and thought: great - if you absolutely really love losing your wad.

Chancellor was odds on for the Winter Derby, finished second. Did you not see he was running in the 3.00 Newcastle today imp (finished 5th @ 3/1 fav) ?

As the dealer says, todays racing was competitive, certainly a better standard than we used to get this early in the turf season years ago, when it was the likes of Catterick and Folkestone serving up low grade handicaps, with modest prize money.

Nearly half a million matched in the last race at Newcastle, that's pretty good imho in today's climate and not all doom and gloom that's being chugged out here. I would imagine most races today were the same.

The Kempton Easter meeting was always a good one, Roseberry Stakes and some Guineas trials.

If only I'd fast-track to the prep races for the big Classic eg Greenham / Nell Gwyn / Dante / Musidora / etc.

The Grand National Meet next week includes a few fancy failures from Cheltenham eg Jango Baie (8/11); Lulamba (8/13); The New Lion (2/1) and Jonbon (Melling).

Lulamba and Jonbon were running in the wrong races in March.

The DG is clearly potless until he can reload

yes swifty  the masaka and easter stakes i think were the guineas trials , dont know why they start the flat at doncaster last week , when weve to wait   nearly 3 weeks later for decent flat racing the craven meeting , with hardly anything in between,

yes swifty  the masaka and easter stakes i think were the guineas trials , dont know why they start the flat at doncaster last week , when weve to wait   nearly 3 weeks later for decent flat racing the craven meeting , with hardly anything in between,

Yes, I did 'DixieDave'. I managed to catch Chancellor in running.

elisj, that was them, just enjoyed watching races on the Jubilee course, sad that it went, and the entire course almost certainly to follow at some point.

I'm watching the win of Shergar in the Epsom Derby, the race that got me interested in horseracing. I'd £90 (cash) on him. How the heck did Shergar go off at 10/11? Today's bookies would have gone 1/3 pr 2/5 at best, I think.

ye, the gap between the turf start and then any proper racing is crazy. The AW serves a fantastic purpose but should be finished off by March for a few months.

colonelflay - i will throw your argument right back at you if  i may.
"
You (amongst some others here) may not have wanted to punt today but plenty of us did want to do so. Why should "the industry" take notice of you NOT punting rather than loads of others who actually DID have a bet ??

I didn't "lose my wad" either, half a dozen bets placed and had Wiltshire and Alasrae win for a nice profit. They were not that difficult to pick out imo although there were admittedly some very hard to find winners in other races .

There was excellent prize money on offer and the crowds were very good by the look of it.  As the dealer said, liquidity was pretty good on here and so many punters do not share your view it seems. the only way your argument stands is if crowds are down and general betting turnover is less than one would normally expect.

I agree with points made about the slow start to the turf season but even before the a/w came along we only had very low key stuff for the couple of weeks between the Lincoln meeting and the Newbury/Newmarket classic trials. Of course the Grand National meeting is what most horse racing followers will be interested in during that period so i'm not sure what else they can really do to spice things up on the flat.

Good Friday is the one day you want to take off as a punter.  Bookmaker contrived handicap nonsense and you were all warned, don't sit there and say you weren't.

DixieDean, you are missing the whole concept of AW Finals Champions Day. Handicap winners are those who have been campaigned best, they are not champions, many of them far from it. There's plenty of other AW handicaps every day of the week for 5( or should that be 12)months of the year.

Hulk, each to their own  -i wouldn't dream of telling you what to bet on, we are all different.
And as i said earlier, i did ok today with 7/1 and 5/1 winners, so no need for your warning ta all the same

swifty - not sure where you are coming from there, i'm not missing anything about the "concept" thanks and haven't tried to make today's racing out to be a special day, simply a competitive one with plenty of prize money and runners. But it was certainly better than 90 per cent of any other a/w cards throughout the year, that much is indisputable.

Time Charter was a Masaka Wnr.
Think Corupt whom might've been the Derby Fav won the Easter Stks.

DixieDean, you are clearly missing the original concept of AW Championships Finals day, the races were:

The Easter Classic (Middle Distance Championship): The feature race of the day, run over 1 mile 2 furlongs.
The Mile Championship: Run over a distance of 1 mile.
The Sprint Championship: A 6-furlong race.
The 3-Year-Old Championship: Originally a 7-furlong race (later became a 6-furlong sprint in 2017).
The Marathon Championship: The longest race of the day, run over 2 miles.
The Fillies and Mares Championship: Run over 7 furlongs.

Oh, and a poxy Apprentice handicap to finish.

I saw no champions at Newcastle today just some more handicap winners.

Dixie Dean 60 wrote: Why should "the industry" take notice of you NOT punting rather than loads of others who actually DID have a bet ??
the only way your argument stands is if crowds are down and general betting turnover is less than one would normally expect.

The industry won't take any notice of anyone, certainly not me writing on here. I said it ought to because, in my opinion, days like these tarnish the reputation of a semi-bent sport even further. As do so many nights on the all-weather. The industry is always on about attracting new punters: well, it won't do that if it offers 'money pit' handicaps where finding the winner is an insult to the intelligence. In general the sporting press should be far more rigorous in telling the public that most all-weather racing is crap and as betting medium it is often a bit of con, certainly for the casual fun punter it's a take-on. Why cannot this be said, and loudly? Why when the obvious is stated do we hear a chorus of elderly gambling addicts yelling sophistries such as 'that's pocket talk!' and 'no one forces you to have a bet!' If McDonalds were found to be selling unhealthy rubbish food (which they do) then mentioning that should not be contested with  a cry of 'no one forces you to buy it'. That would be an idiotic response. The correct response to it, even if you like eating it, is 'yes, but I like eating c*rap.' So, you should be saying: 'I know it's comparatively pretty awful racing but I had a winner and I like it.'

Sure enough, at the start of the season there are HUNDREDS of horses being trained in public with no chance or intention of winning or trying to win. That is the sport and it is why I say it is semi-bent because once again there is an omerta between the industry and the media never to mention this blatantly obvious fact. The fact that until about the end of May much of Flat racing is financial Russian Roulette best avoided by the sane man - ie one not addicted to gambling - is never aired in the media. Why not? So much of the fuss about gambling addiction as it applies to horse racing could be sorted out by being brutally honest
about how the game actually works but no, punters - especially 'holiday crowd' punters are kept in the dark. There is simply no way of arguing round the institutional dishonesty of racing. I thrive on it as I know the pitfalls, but I resent the old stagers with their faux-aristocratic 'pocket talk' accusations. Why should punters moan about a very hard bargain (that keeps the sport going)? You tell me, Dixie. The sort only exists because almost all punters lose almost all of the time. Not a good look for 'the sport of kings'.

I replied, Dixie, but of course it must be 'moderated'.

swifty. i know the history of a/w "champions" day and i can't recall seeing too many world beaters back in the days you speak of, let alone today. That said i've always enjoyed it, helped in no small measure by often picking a few winners at the meetings .

I'm not trying to make out it is something that it isn't, but it is certainly as good as any a/w card i have seen this winter and offered good competitive racing with enough runners in every race bar one for those who like each way or place betting. And which race was it that didn't have the required runners for e/w first 3 ? correct - the listed race at the start of the day  i.e. the only race for "classier" animals on the card. Look at races like the Winter Derby, nearly always small fields, there just isn't a big enough number of top class animals running on the a/w here unfortunately, hence the races today were nearly all handicaps.

It appears to me that you are maybe reading too much in to the "championship" moniker that this day is labelled with. Most punters attending couldn't give a fig what it is called, they are just there for the day out. It's not meant to be on a par with Ascot in October for instance.

Colonel - i don't disagree with quite a few points in your latest post.
But for plenty of punters a/w racing offers decent betting opportunities, i find the form tends to stand up just as well as turf for the types of horses i like to back. And the sport would not be sustainable if we only allowed top class animals to race as there would only be a handful of meetings each month !
I like competitive racing whatever the level as i like to have a relatively modest bet, same as many others i would warrant, as i don't need to make money these days and don't bet as big as i used to a few years back. Maybe i would see things differently if i actually needed an income from my betting.
One has to accept a bit of skullduggery in the sport, it's been there since it's inception and indeed is part of the attraction for many.
Of course most punters lose over time, there would be no bookies otherwise

Champions league in football.

World series baseball.

In terms of putting on group races on the all weather at this time of year is the problem of international competition for high class combatants, not least from the Middle East, although Trump might be about to change that dynamic.

Dixie - my point about most people losing most of the time was made to show the how the sport is engineered to relieve people of money. My small moral judgement on it is that it isn't a good look.

Skullduggery: you're basically quoting Barry Hills from his biography.

Yes, no one minds dishonesty when they're winning and ahead. I'll come and find you in the middle of a losing run when you've just done your money on a non-trier that's being trained for something else and ask you how happy you are then. Again, not a good look. I can handle the 'gamesmanship' in the turf codes because in time you learn to price it in to your calculations, but I say again: to watch connections and staff parading around and dissembling about a horse's chances when they know it has virtually no chance is unseemly. However, all the pathologies of the turf game are worse on the all-weather. In turf racing above a certain class most connections want to win, they want the glory, they want to gob off; in the all-weather's lower codes a certain en spirit de greyhound racing creeps in and you have connections that want to chisel a few thousand out of laying their horse on Betfair exchange and etc. If it wasn't true then the news stories wouldn't regularly appear in the Racing Post. In closing, I say again: punters support the sport with their hard-earned cash and receive an appalling deal for their money in my opinion. So when they moan it should not be dissed by the industry and old betting shop addicts as 'pocket talk': 'the sufferers' as John McCririck called them have EVERY RIGHT to moan about whatever they like.

And now we have a really impossible lot of cards on Easter Saturday when there used to be about 12 jumps cards. Bet on races that you feel you might have an edge in and just watch the others for another day. I should have done better yesterday-I lost-because I chickened out of the Balding horse in the last. He had a very good day in the end (£200k) but started poorly and I didn't fancy that last one at all. 2 winners, one second, 2 thirds and a fourth from 10 runners all earned a lot of prize money and would have rewarded e/w plays.