Jockey bashers/pocket talkers

Been happening since day one tbh…nothing will ever…

Gravy train will scream and swear inwardly but probably call the rider all the w@nkers under the sun tbh…..

Not enough of the blame is put on trainers who give wrong instructions or run the horse in the wrong race.

How about you back the right horse in the race that

Would have obviously won with a better ride

What a load of rubbish. There are just as many apologists on here. I am sure many argue the opposite just for the sake of it.

Pocket talking the most over used 'excuse' on here. Usually by people with no argument whatsoever. It's little more than a cheapshot. At least if you have backed the horse you will have watched the race. How do you know if someone has actually backed a horse?

The question to ask is why the need? The answer is very simple to understand. Nobody in the media is calling anything out. If you just want bland cheerleading just watch all the racing channels because that is all you will get.

Bad rides are the scourge of punters. If you want to just turn a blind eye that's your choice, as it is for anyone calling them out.

There are bad rides and then there are the ones that are ‘getting the horse to settle’ at the back and minimum effort for some reason.

It might be the most over used phrase but on 90% of posts made straight after the race it is correct, there are plenty to see every day. There are 10% though that do make very good points about what actually happened and what was wrong with the ride and worth the read.

There is only one winner of any race. All of the other rides are bad ones if they didn't get your horse to win. That's the jockey's only job.

There are plenty bad rides, there are plenty "not today" rides - it's all part of the reality of horse racing.

The real mystery (imo) is how nobody that posts regularly about them (after the race) is ever on the receiving end of them. i.e. Having a lucky" winner that should not really have won, if it weren't for all the terrible rides given to the others in the race.

T M..........you're right about the " not today rides".........one has to understand how the career management of less talented horses in handicaps is an art in itself.

In Premier all sporting events, the human nervous system, ( i.e for jockeys) plays an absolutely  crucial role in the outcome........the very top tier sportsmen and women are few and far between, because of it.

It is a double-edged sword.

The gravy train says every losing ride is beyond reproach, and every winning ride brilliant.

Pocket talkers say every losing ride is bendy, and every winning ride must have been bendy last time out to get its mark down or its price up.

This happens in no other sport. In football, if an attempt on goal goes wide, or is saved, or hits the woodwork, fans do not say the striker took a bung to miss. If a penalty is scored, fans do not claim the goalkeeper was paid to dive the wrong way. The role of chance is not underestimated: good luck and more often bad.

But equally, pundits are free to call out bad passes or weak shots. No football pundit speaks of Jack Taylor in the same breath as Lionel Messi.

And so we are where we are. The media needs to realise they are not helping racing or even jockeys in the long term by failure to discriminate, failure to call out mistakes or (more often) rational decisions at the time (eg go up the inside rail) that turn out bad (no gap appears). And pocket talkers do not improve their own punting by not looking for what factors they might have missed. I chose the right horse but the toerag on top ballsed things up.

As for jockeys, the number who have joined the media show that just as not all good footballers make good managers, there are a good many jockeys who have no idea on race-reading or tactics. For every Ruby Walsh, well, you get the picture.

Punters who don’t play never see a bad ride….they are just totally uninterested,probably look when someone brings to attention…other than that who cares tbh….

A person tells you they had ex amount at a price and they got done a shd…..jockey fkd up….”oh right”……

Maybe next time….Bla

Why are all other athletes football players golfers tennis players allowed to be freely criticised yet jockeys arent? Its sport and discussion is par for course. The reason i can see is media never criticise them. And that sets a narrative of non criticism

Anyone spouting off online about a losing bet has zero self respect. The game ain’t straight, we all know that, yet we still choose to play with a **** deck. No point calling foul afterwards. If you’re betting at the top of the market it’s gonna happen to you more often. You’ve got to accept it or don’t bet on them.

Half of England still give Pearce and Co pelters lol…..ffs

s.kenbo
I totally agree!

kenbo - I think you're missing the point - people don't just spout about a losing bet, it is about the nature of the ride of course.

If a financial advisor ripped you off, would you just say, oh well it was probably a mistake they made? Course not. So no reason same credit should be given to a jockey deliberately doing their job wrong.

Of course we can debate whether it was 'deliberate' or not - but to say there could be no debate, is basically wrong.

You lay a row of facing bricks all squeegee Kenbo you’ll soon get pelters tbh…

Nature of the beast tbh…

In any other form of finance and theft, it would be criminal, but seems jockeys/trainers are mostly an exempt case if committing fraud.

Agree 100% SK

You could send a whole catalogue of bent rides to the BHA integrity dept, they have zero interest in identifying any foul play, pretty much the same with the entire gravy train. With racing's share of the betting market in sharp decline that's not a surprise. Aside from the bad image, the cost of building a case beyond doubt is prohibitive. Just look at the FA and the Paqueta farce, that's been running for months despite the FA's considerable wealth, still no sign of an outcome.

Pocket talkers say every losing ride is bendy

This is a key point too - because no they don't.


There are 100s or 1000s of losing rides - but only specific ones will draw attention, including on here. That is because those rides have specific features that draw attention, and rightly so. I've lost 10's of 1000s of bets from rides, but I would only ever point out one of those that had some specific negative features, and just shrug and get on with the rest of the rides.

The apologists are the ones who are saying 'every' ride is fine.

Been an Increase in Bishop Bashers on the Forum in the last few weeks ..

You gave hibby pelters the other day because you know the person….

Have you ever had an opinion on a bad ride ?

I’m not missing any point, Stu. A short priced favourite loses and the same old clowns on here pop up straight after the race with the usual spiel, ‘the worst ride you will ever see’, ‘it’s b3nt’ or ‘the drift told us’, . Most of the time the horse was beat fair and square.

When a bad ride or a b3nt ride genuinely happens, three or four threads will pop up instantly. There’s usually something to see then imo. You can dismiss any thread from, Jinxy, Big Muff, De-Moan, Racing6969, 1830, etc as pocket talking. I saw you and Duffy posted about the same jockey yesterday. I didn’t see the ride but as neither of you cry wolf on here I expect there was definitely something to see there.

The lack of self respect still staggers me now.

Every single punter since day one has slagged a rider,inwardly,bawling at the track or on a forum…

Gravy train included tbh….

Yes, and the man doing it inwardly is the only one out of the three with any self respect!

Gravy train favourite….” If he could ride the race again “ lol…..ffs

The most boring thing with gambling is listening to others telling you about their near misses/bad luck stories.

Remember the risen got chinned at Brighton lol…..ffs think it was the owner tbh

I've stated numerous times i've waited 20yrs for someone to post responsibility and confess to backing the wrong horse , no luck as yet.

Not holding my breath for either Mics or De_Man to bail me out     

I partly get your point kenbo, though I think it is also a tad unrealistic.

We bet (at least partly) on how rides will be carried out by jockeys - so to expect that not to be posted about on here is very unrealistic IMO. Even if it is often incorrect in a view posted. But if incorrect then that can be equally discussed for reasons.

I agree with your (I think) suggestion however, that there are degrees of 'bad' rides - ranging from slightly unlucky (which does not deserve a post on here) to completely and utterly corrupt (which definitely does deserve discussion) or even gross incompetence (worthy enough as on-topic here).

What I dislike is that critical posts on here are (by some here) all lumped together as just pocket talking - as though there is no such thing as deliberate corruption in riding at times. Or even just incompetence, which I think is an equally valid post to make on here for discussion.

There is a correlation with fav/shortie backers imo.

For one thing there are more eyes/scrutiny on them - but people that bet based on prices, as well as being much more likely to win, are also much more likely to have taken into account that a lot of things need to come together and go right, for any horse to win any race. Betting short prices or favs is no guarantee of all those things coming together nicely in something as complex as a horse race with all of it's variables.

I think people having a punt on a 50/1 poke (that they think should be 25/1) probably get that - and roll with the punches. Fav backers (in my experience) are backing what they think ought to happen (on paper in a perfect world) and still have trouble understanding why the fav doesn't win every race.

pocket talking ??

forum fingered ahearn long before anyone else did.  if you want an honest opinion this place is your best bet, people on here are not on the gravy train sh1tting themselves wondering what they can say and what they can't say in order to maintain their relationships with yards, trainers, owners, jockeys, employers et al

Too many pundits give jockeys the benefit of the doubt. One of the biggest **** ups ever was Dettori on Stradivarius in the Ascot Gold Cup. He rode a bad race in 2021 and then totally repeated it the following year. You could see it coming like a train crash but the ITV gang gave him an easy time. That horse should've been a five-time Gold Cup winner but jockey error prevented it.

if you listen to the racing industry pundits - with possibly the exception of Seb Saunders until he was told to have another look at his contract - there hasn't been a bad ride given to any horse in UK horseracing for at least the last 35 years. 

Not one.

Apart from American racing…..

Is it 'bashing' to suggest that James Doyle seems to lose on a large number of shorties?

think Buick lost on 11 shorties in 2 days at Newmarket last year.  can James beat that ?

Of course you've got to throw in the King of it Haggas as well

Which jockey IYO wins on more shorties than James?

I'm sure it will surprise the forum that Havlin has one of the best S/R on shorties

May 23, 2025 -- 3:03PM, MJK wrote:

Of course you've got to throw in the King of it Haggas as well

Absolute scum of the earth. Don't know how ge continually gets away with it.

I find myself agreeing with MJK on quite a lot of his options maybe it's the rebel county in me

Opinions even

That’s very worrying! Get help!!

May 23, 2025 -- 5:55PM, Jacko2017 wrote:

I find myself agreeing with MJK on quite a lot of his options maybe it's the rebel county in me

Top man Haggas strikes again. Nothing to see here...