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Grand Sefton - no fallers and all finished bar 1 that was pulled up. Getting more like a park course now.
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it's clear there is an agenda...
the direction of travel is blatantly obvious.
the direction of travel is blatantly obvious.
give it a few years we'll have hologram fences...and no I'm not joking
the direction of travel is obvious wsb...
it won't be reversed now...
pretty farcical if you ask me.
it won't be reversed now...
pretty farcical if you ask me.
favourite ploughing through fences at Musselburgh there...
they clearly got the memo.
they clearly got the memo.
Chemical Warfare walks through a fence at Newcastle...
utterly laughable.
utterly laughable.
never even looked like falling as well hh...hologram fences
it literally walked through it wsb...
that's not the game i once new...
shocking imv...
clearly courses have been asked to make them easier...
no doubt about it imv.
that's not the game i once new...
shocking imv...
clearly courses have been asked to make them easier...
no doubt about it imv.
the donny of old...
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaEscz9XLE&list=PLfn5x2SD03q5AUWCbaPHyls7pkpKqqORC&index=2
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaEscz9XLE&list=PLfn5x2SD03q5AUWCbaPHyls7pkpKqqORC&index=2
back in the day donny fences were regarded as fairly soft in comparison to other tracks
like brick walls compared to these days
like brick walls compared to these days
Dec 9, 2024 -- 3:26PM, HappyHibby wrote:
favourite ploughing through fences at Musselburgh there...they clearly got the memo.
hughes horse 2 out there...wow
vast majority of tracks have eased their fences wsb...
100% guaranteed...
obviously they haven't told us that...
but they have.
100% guaranteed...
obviously they haven't told us that...
but they have.
What is the special appeal? 6 fallers, 6 brought down and 6 finishers? I much prefer a competitive race with enough in contention a the second last to make an exciting finish.
What is the special appeal?
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certainly ain't watching horses plough through the centre of fences and carrying on as if it were made of feather dusters sageform...
it's hideous imv.
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certainly ain't watching horses plough through the centre of fences and carrying on as if it were made of feather dusters sageform...
it's hideous imv.
if hologram fences were introduced, it actually wouldn't be much safer
and I'm not joking
and I'm not joking
Fatalities in jumping all round have been an area they've tried to reduce for obvious reasons. It may have removed the 'old days' and old 'appeal' but really we're lucky if jump racing even still exists in context of the modern day views...
Totally agree Stu, as a massive and life-long racing fan I now look back at the Grand Nationals of the 1960's and 1970's with something close to horror.
No need for fences to be as hard as they were and it was a lottery unless a very special type of horse - like Red Rum - came along. Watching Andy Pandy crash out in Red Rum's 3rd winning national is sickening.
Jump racing is safer now and all the better for it.
But, I will be surprised if it still exists in 15 to 20 years time. The BHA will eventually sacrifice the jumps to placate the animal rights brigade so that the more money-spinning flat racing survives.
No need for fences to be as hard as they were and it was a lottery unless a very special type of horse - like Red Rum - came along. Watching Andy Pandy crash out in Red Rum's 3rd winning national is sickening.
Jump racing is safer now and all the better for it.
But, I will be surprised if it still exists in 15 to 20 years time. The BHA will eventually sacrifice the jumps to placate the animal rights brigade so that the more money-spinning flat racing survives.
There's a fine line to be reached though surely?
I watched a race at Musselburgh yesterday and there was a grey horse literally walked, and I do mean walked, through the second last fence I think it was and stayed in the race.
There definitely still has to be a jumping test and element of risk, otherwise what's the point of the obstacles being there in the first place? Horses walking through fences is no spectacle and actually encourages poor jumping techniques in the breed.
If we're trying to eliminate fatalities completely, then racing over both codes would be as well ceasing altogether.
A sad day indeed.
I watched a race at Musselburgh yesterday and there was a grey horse literally walked, and I do mean walked, through the second last fence I think it was and stayed in the race.
There definitely still has to be a jumping test and element of risk, otherwise what's the point of the obstacles being there in the first place? Horses walking through fences is no spectacle and actually encourages poor jumping techniques in the breed.
If we're trying to eliminate fatalities completely, then racing over both codes would be as well ceasing altogether.
A sad day indeed.
I watched a race at Musselburgh yesterday and there was a grey horse literally walked, and I do mean walked, through the second last fence I think it was and stayed in the race.
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you must have missed lots of jump racing over the last couple of years SS coz it's been like this (and increasingly so) for that period of time at least...
Ludlow was the first to make them like a feather duster...
and many many others have followed...
it's a hideous spectacle imv.
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you must have missed lots of jump racing over the last couple of years SS coz it's been like this (and increasingly so) for that period of time at least...
Ludlow was the first to make them like a feather duster...
and many many others have followed...
it's a hideous spectacle imv.
Yes, there is a fine line to be drawn. But we were talking about the Grand National and back in the past that race was just too hard in terms of the fences. Even more so when any old hack could be entered. At least today only the better horses and more able jumpers can run.
Of course, commons sense tells us that we will never eliminate horse deaths in racing but the animal rights fanatics do not use common sense.
What will save the flat, however, is the argument that a wild horse could easily badly injure itself just running around a forest or a field. In those cases, the poor animal might suffer for quite some time before dying. At least with racing they are put out of their pain and misery almost straight away.
(I recall being on safari in Kenya back in 2002. Out in the bush, we saw a lion with terrible facial and leg injuries limping along looking awful. Our guide said it had almost certainly been kicked by a bull which it and others in the pride had been trying to take down. No help for a wild lion in that situation is possible and it demonstrated that animals will die - just like us - no matter what the circumstances.)
BTW, don't get me wrong, I love watching the jumps and am off to Southwell for today's NH meeting very shortly, but I now cannot bear to watch the carnage of Grand Nationals past. They were an unnatural test and I do not see what people enjoyed about them.
Of course, commons sense tells us that we will never eliminate horse deaths in racing but the animal rights fanatics do not use common sense.
What will save the flat, however, is the argument that a wild horse could easily badly injure itself just running around a forest or a field. In those cases, the poor animal might suffer for quite some time before dying. At least with racing they are put out of their pain and misery almost straight away.
(I recall being on safari in Kenya back in 2002. Out in the bush, we saw a lion with terrible facial and leg injuries limping along looking awful. Our guide said it had almost certainly been kicked by a bull which it and others in the pride had been trying to take down. No help for a wild lion in that situation is possible and it demonstrated that animals will die - just like us - no matter what the circumstances.)
BTW, don't get me wrong, I love watching the jumps and am off to Southwell for today's NH meeting very shortly, but I now cannot bear to watch the carnage of Grand Nationals past. They were an unnatural test and I do not see what people enjoyed about them.
Despite fences getting easier, there's still a fair amount of fallers in races?
There is an easier task to get over a fence these days, but jumping is still a part of the ability surely?
There is an easier task to get over a fence these days, but jumping is still a part of the ability surely?
Plenty of fallers over hurdles as well and at a faster pace. Every obstacle slows a horse down and there are now data to show by how much. The cleaner the jump, the less deceleration.
This issue boils down to 'balance'.
Come April we could see the field approaching the 2nd last with 15+ in with a chance.
Most from the top end of the 'handicap' and Irish trained.
Many with their handicaps protected by running in hurdles etc.
Take a look at the many nationals from the 20's onward on You Tube and you will see what we are missing as regards exciting sport.
The powers that be had to address the safety issues and on 'balance' had to make what many would agree are over the top changes.
The die is cast.
Come April we could see the field approaching the 2nd last with 15+ in with a chance.
Most from the top end of the 'handicap' and Irish trained.
Many with their handicaps protected by running in hurdles etc.
Take a look at the many nationals from the 20's onward on You Tube and you will see what we are missing as regards exciting sport.
The powers that be had to address the safety issues and on 'balance' had to make what many would agree are over the top changes.
The die is cast.
Problem is also that (for whatever reason) the GN is the 'marketing race' watched by those who do not regularly follow racing - that is rather ironic as it has historically also emphasised exactly the problems that the casuals have with jumps racing, i.e. danger and injury.
So, racing promotes itself with exactly the problem, promoted to millions - hence this specific race had to be the main target for changes.
So, racing promotes itself with exactly the problem, promoted to millions - hence this specific race had to be the main target for changes.
one thing that annoys me is the sneaky way they have done it tho...
can't stand that sneaky attitude tbh.
can't stand that sneaky attitude tbh.
Yeh that's a fair point also Hib - in fact they should have promoted the fact they made it safer if they wanted to use it as their marketing race of the year....
i agree stu...
instead they have treated the mug public like fools by making fences like upturned feather dusters and not telling us...
they must think we don't notice horses ploughing through the centre of fences with very little consequence...
doesn't surprise me coz racing in general takes the public for fools...
and tbf a fair % of them are.
instead they have treated the mug public like fools by making fences like upturned feather dusters and not telling us...
they must think we don't notice horses ploughing through the centre of fences with very little consequence...
doesn't surprise me coz racing in general takes the public for fools...
and tbf a fair % of them are.
Kap Auteuil just went right through the middle of that fence at Doncaster.
I've got it...I've got it, we should start racing cows instead of horses. There can't be the same woke approach to cowracing. Sorry, just occurred to me . It might lead to compulsory vegetarianism. Scrap that idea. Back to thinking of a solution......
the solution is very simple...
pack the fences with birch as much as they were packed a few years ago.
pack the fences with birch as much as they were packed a few years ago.
Aintree national fences are even more of a farce this year than last...
a hideous spectacle imv...
shameful.
a hideous spectacle imv...
shameful.
video up on twitter of bob champion stood landing side of bechers (early 80s)...quite a sight
it ain't what i want to see GC...
horses ploughing through the chair like it's made of feather dusters...
looks ridiculous.
horses ploughing through the chair like it's made of feather dusters...
looks ridiculous.
will be 20-25 finishers tomorrow even with reduced field
horses ploughing through the chair like it's made of feather dusters...
Funny I was thinking it looked no more than a garden hedge myself.
Funny I was thinking it looked no more than a garden hedge myself.
fences are due to be renamed, milking stool and puddle being considered.
So you want to see horses falling all over the place, often with the usual tragic consequences, or so it seems to me from what is being said. I find it odd that you find the current trend, laughable.
.... So you want a glorified flat race then Smoky.? just to appease a few Anarchists.
Smoky Hill • April 4, 2025 4:26 PM BST
So you want to see horses falling all over the place, often with the usual tragic consequences, or so it seems to me from what is being said.
answered your own question...wrong inference
So you want to see horses falling all over the place, often with the usual tragic consequences, or so it seems to me from what is being said.
answered your own question...wrong inference
swiftynifty 04 Apr 25 16:25
fences are due to be renamed, milking stool and puddle being considered.
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a pile of pewk on a Friday night pub crawl in Edinburgh is stiffer than THE CHAIR these days swifty...
scandalous they have allowed this.
fences are due to be renamed, milking stool and puddle being considered.
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a pile of pewk on a Friday night pub crawl in Edinburgh is stiffer than THE CHAIR these days swifty...
scandalous they have allowed this.
GLASGOWCALLING 04 Apr 25 16:29
.... So you want a glorified flat race then Smoky.? just to appease a few Anarchists.
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the way it's going it will be a 4m4f bumper come 2030 GC.
.... So you want a glorified flat race then Smoky.? just to appease a few Anarchists.
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the way it's going it will be a 4m4f bumper come 2030 GC.
23 finished one unseated 6 pulled up so is there any point of the fences
Formula 1 crashes, The Grand National and Ice Hockey fights aint what they used to be. NFL and Rugby have been neutered too.
Take me back to the halcyon days of the 90's where it was wall to wall carnage and cans of Stella of a Saturday.
I want other people to get hurt for my entertainment.
Take me back to the halcyon days of the 90's where it was wall to wall carnage and cans of Stella of a Saturday.
I want other people to get hurt for my entertainment.
Well you've still got the Velka Pardubice, sounds more like your cup of tea. Or the last flight death trap at Auteuil for thrills and spills closer to home.
Aintree's hurdles are utter filth too tbh...
they are just knocking some of them flat to the ground...
looks ridiculous...
shameful stuff.
they are just knocking some of them flat to the ground...
looks ridiculous...
shameful stuff.
Surely fallers only plays into the bookies hands? isn't it them who should be seething?
Gentleman de Mee nearly fell twice, he wouldn't have got round if like a few years ago.
Gentleman de Mee nearly fell twice, he wouldn't have got round if like a few years ago.
Layers always seem happy when a favourite falls, like the one yesterday. I've never noticed one care whether it gets up or not. It's a cynical sport isn't it? underneath the sycophantic gloss..
Sport with animals is a hard sell these days. I appreciate the BHA's efforts to make it more palatable, even though David Nicholson and Fred Winter would likely be turning in their graves.
I go back to Fortria, to Kerstin, to Taxidermist and Mr What.. Old Tea Fiend and Wyndburgh, but those days are gone and personally, I don't want them back, and I'm not sure a modern audience would either.
I go back to Fortria, to Kerstin, to Taxidermist and Mr What.. Old Tea Fiend and Wyndburgh, but those days are gone and personally, I don't want them back, and I'm not sure a modern audience would either.
and I'm not sure a modern audience would either.
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the modern audience is ITV2 types who watch The One Show and Good Morning...
they ain't got a clue about racing...
and only turn up coz it's a students day or coz they fancy a few drinks and try to cop off with someone at the end of the day/night...
or if there's a 'free' concert by someone i've never ever heard of...
young folk don't care about horse racing ffs.
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the modern audience is ITV2 types who watch The One Show and Good Morning...
they ain't got a clue about racing...
and only turn up coz it's a students day or coz they fancy a few drinks and try to cop off with someone at the end of the day/night...
or if there's a 'free' concert by someone i've never ever heard of...
young folk don't care about horse racing ffs.
The water jump used to be a brick wall.
There was opposition to that when it was replaced.
The race has changed a great deal over the years.
Personally I like to see less fallers.
There was opposition to that when it was replaced.
The race has changed a great deal over the years.
Personally I like to see less fallers.
TV audience now happy to watch a re-enactment of the old Grand National minus the jeopardy .
just saw a bloke on BBC Breakfast (Daily Mail columnist Dominic King)...
trying to big the race up...
looked like a totally half-hearted effort from someone who knows the race has become pretty farcical now...
but no doubt the ITV2 crowd will have got sucked in.
trying to big the race up...
looked like a totally half-hearted effort from someone who knows the race has become pretty farcical now...
but no doubt the ITV2 crowd will have got sucked in.
Apr 4, 2025 -- 4:57PM, Smoky Hill wrote:
Well you've still got the Velka Pardubice, sounds more like your cup of tea.
The (Not So) Grand National is now a Zombie race
It looks alive but its really quite dead.
It looks alive but its really quite dead.
Forumites whingeing and whining about
NOT ENOUGH DEATH
at Aintree
NOT ENOUGH DEATH
at Aintree
The chaos of it was what made it, though seeing the screens up is horrible.
I bet in the 1950s old men in pubs were decrying the era of Neville Crump and Vincent O Brien, the National has gone soft they cried out as they sup their pale ales in a dimpled glass
100% correct, Cardinal.
The once a year punters who tune in and have their £5 e/w will not know that there is any difference to the fences.
Unfortunately the sport is not as popular as it once was.
Nothing to do with the changes that have been made.
The once a year punters who tune in and have their £5 e/w will not know that there is any difference to the fences.
Unfortunately the sport is not as popular as it once was.
Nothing to do with the changes that have been made.
the 'special' aspect of Aintree's National fences was the fear factor...
when you lose that it's just another chase race imv...
been coming for years but it's definitely lost it's fear factor NOW imv...
and it's become just another handicap chase with big prize money...
shameful the authorities responsible have allowed this to happen if you ask me.
when you lose that it's just another chase race imv...
been coming for years but it's definitely lost it's fear factor NOW imv...
and it's become just another handicap chase with big prize money...
shameful the authorities responsible have allowed this to happen if you ask me.
"The most famous tale about Neville Crump concerns the time he was asked directions from his base at Middleham, North Yorkshire, to nearby Leyburn by a group of Japanese tourists. There is no polite way of recounting Crump's reply to such a simple request. Legend has it he told them: "You found your fu*ki*g way to Pearl Harbour. You can find your own fu*ki*g way to Leyburn."
Would imagine the once year punters will come back if their horse
is still there pitching 3 out than on the deck after 2 fences.
is still there pitching 3 out than on the deck after 2 fences.
Good to see you can still take the fences halfway up at Ludlow, could probably jump around on a pogo stick
Still have to be jumped and big fields always mike life harder for jockeys. Sheehan was outstanding on the winner. Went round the inner for 2 miles and was making mistakes but then pulled out wide and just stuck his head out in the end. You won't see many more exciting chases than that.
Still have to be jumped and big fields always mike life harder for jockeys. Sheehan was outstanding on the winner. Went round the inner for 2 miles and was making mistakes but then pulled out wide and just stuck his head out in the end. You won't see many more exciting chases than that.
You won't see many more exciting chases than that.
left me cold
left me cold
Watch a different sport then. And then we see Rubaud teasing the in running players as he always does. Smashing horses even if not grade 1 class.
sageform • November 8, 2025 3:00 PM GMT
Watch a different sport then
why...because I disagree with you?
Watch a different sport then
why...because I disagree with you?
national course was special back in the day
now it isn't imo
glad you enjoyed it
now it isn't imo
glad you enjoyed it
wonder, perhaps an over reaction to your comment but you seem to no longer enjoy racing. I watch racing because I enjoy it and have done for 70 years. A horse like Rubaud is an absolute pleasure to watch. Experienced watchers know that he will drift in price in running and cash in nearly every time.
sageform • November 10, 2025 11:26 AM GMT
wonder, perhaps an over reaction to your comment but you seem to no longer enjoy racing
speak for yourself not others
wonder, perhaps an over reaction to your comment but you seem to no longer enjoy racing
speak for yourself not others
Surely that’s gambling sage associated with a race? I get wonders point though. Nothing to beat a trio of chasers going at it over the final three fences.
I just don't like the stuffed hurdles being revered as "the big fences"
its a cross country course now but without much variety to the obstacles, its dull
its a cross country course now but without much variety to the obstacles, its dull
but I did enjoy naas yesterday
competitive racing on a proper course & a thrilling finish to the feature
competitive racing on a proper course & a thrilling finish to the feature
But there were 6 of them almost level going to the last on Saturday! Surely better than 2 with jockeys on and 6 running loose as used to be the case? I used to enjoy the spectacle when there were 17 hand slow boats running but the modern chasers are much closer to flat horses and there was be carnage over the old fences which is why they made them easier. I do have a bet LH but I am very happy to watch good races without having a bet. I just love watching good jumpers and good jockeys going round (well not at Fakenham perhaps)
sageform • November 10, 2025 1:44 PM GMT
But there were 6 of them almost level going to the last on Saturday! Surely better
that's not my view
if anything it looks weird on that course
But there were 6 of them almost level going to the last on Saturday! Surely better
that's not my view
if anything it looks weird on that course
that chicane isn't wide enough either to get a line of 6 through but when it was designed they never imagined it would be like the finish to the stewards cup on the run in
We’re all in it together. It’s a great sport being frayed at the edges and whittled away at by the antis. Unfortunately.
Be lucky.
Be lucky.
Definition of The Grand National? A four and a quarter mile hurdle race for horses trained by Willie Mullins. The sporting year 30 years ago was: 1. The Five Nations 2. The Grand National 3. Cheltenham. The first beaten by professionalism and laws changes (lifting at lineouts etc); the second destroyed by wokery and cowardice. I suspect Cheltenham is headed the same way as the GN.
Sageform, without entering into the debate too much on either side, you are close to the mark when you comment on "flat horses". I am no paddock judge , but when I look at NH these days you would often take 2 of them added together to make 1 The Dikler. If you look at the breeding of some of them it makes sense. I saw a Dark Angel running in a hurdle a few weeks back! I tend towards Wonder's view and have lost a lot of interest in the National recently. I went to every one (bar bomb/false start) since Grittar but have stopped the last 2 years. Too expensive for not enough excitment. NH horses are bred differently these days with an emphasis (as on the flat) on (relative) speed. If they had fences as they did, there would be carnage and the whole game would be under even more pressure than it is. I lament but understand. Not the end of the world if the race is not what it was for us old-timers. Plenty of other great racing to watch.
Dec 14, 2024 -- 2:18PM, wondersobright wrote:
back in the day donny fences were regarded as fairly soft in comparison to other trackslike brick walls compared to these days
comical "fences"
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