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17 Oct 24
20:54
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Date Joined:
05 Apr 02
ISN`T IT SAD TO SEE THESE ONCE GREAT PUBLICATIONS SELLING FOR PEANUTS ON EBAY AND THE LIKES.
SAW 20 FLAT ANNUALS IN MINT CONDITION NOT EVEN SELLING FOR THE ASKING PRICE OF FIFTY QUID.
SAD VERY SAD
SAW 20 FLAT ANNUALS IN MINT CONDITION NOT EVEN SELLING FOR THE ASKING PRICE OF FIFTY QUID.
SAD VERY SAD
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I gave my Timeform collection to the local Hospice a few years ago to help raise much needed funds. As a regular supporter, I went into the huge shop outlet a month later and the lady said, "Good news, a young woman bought them all at £1 a copy! She says she cuts the centre of thick books out and turns them into secret money boxes, disguised as books"!
I was disappointed to say the least.  |
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Not what you hoped I'm sure. You may as well have just donated a few quid. Presumably, lack of interest, and storage space the issue. It has helped me to add to my collection, mainly filling gaps. Pretty much got as many as I want now. The only flat one post 1990 is one I won in a competition. Still on the look out for old chaseform and raceform. Not many advertised and hard to get in good condition. Use them a bit, and the pages soon become loose.
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None of the family interested in racing and they would have ended up in a skip. I offered them FREE on here and nobody wanted them. Have you not tried abe books DD for the ones you are looking for? Get every book published on there. Plent of Chaseform and Raceform going for bargain prices. Here is a link in case you have never heard of them:
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?cm_sp=SearchF-_-TopNavISS-_-Results&ds=20&kn=chaseform%20annual&sts=t |
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.... p.s. I donate a few quid every month by Debit.
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Lord Oaksey advised about 45 years ago to buy 2 Timeform Annuals.one to use and one for a secure investment.
The peer shafted me  |
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His Lordship must have had shares in Timeform Salmon.
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It's all JP's fault. Once he bought a complete set of Timeform annuals at a charity auction which wrongly convinced people there was a market for them.
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Changing lifestyles too. Even Wisdens are dropping in value. It is no longer fashionable to display large series of books, and even the younger literature geeks would prefer fantasy series.
Look at Antiques Roadshow. When was the last time any furniture was valued? Let alone bookshelves. The bottom has fallen right out of the market. |
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Think you will find it was Tony Morris and not Lord Oaksey
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Correct Isleham. And when he wrote it, it was good advice. On another point I really miss the black book, being able to check out a runner at a moment's notice.
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I'm pretty certain I heard Oaksey say or write something of the sort. He may well have been parroting Morris of course.
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I possessed 8 in mint condition from the early nineties , started a thread on here last year offering them free and to pay postage but no takers , after a house declutter they ended up on the local tip.
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Thanks MM.
Chaseforms 63-64 64-65 73-74 (my copy has fallen apart) and Raceform 1973 are top of my list. If anyone is getting rid please don't throw away. Hayden, I can't remember your post, but that's a terrible outcome. |
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I doubt that Tony Morris ever had to pay for his Timeform Annual, but he did write once that they were underpriced for the paying customer.
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i used to know that soon after arc day chasers & hurdlers annual would be available . the change of the seasons that does not really exist anymore . i still have many copies of the flat and jumping annuals . trouble is as i get older the print is so small its difficult to read . so when i'm browsing them i end up looking at the pictures like a child would ! having said that what happened to themightymac's generously donated collection to the hospice ...well, that is nothing short of criminal.
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Had a couple of enquiries dd as to dates but no takers even for free postage , was in declutter mode at the time as a move to the seaside was imminent.
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Hey Hayden, which year/years were you and your mate advertising in the Handicap Book and what were you offering for sale that made you £30,000?
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That particular mate sadly died about 4 yrs ago top2r , one of the great characters we all like reading about for sure.
I'd guess it was early to mid eighties , used a PO Box and one advert asked to send money but without any promise of anything , he was the initial " brains " of the outfit so had a 60-40 share but wasn't just the Handicap Book also used a magazine , can't remember the name. Can't post any other details incase anyone reading asks for their money back  |
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OK, thanks for the info Hayden.
Sorry to hear about your mate though. |
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I preferred the Superform Annuals, probably collected about 25 before they got chucked out.
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Currently on ebay there is a collection set of 41 editions for sale of Timeform Racehorses 1970 - 2010 at £199.
Also Timeform Chasers & Hurdlers collection 1975 - 2010 inclusive 35 editions at £150. These annuals just not collectable items now, and basically only worth what someone might be prepared to pay for them. |
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In a hundred years time, these books will prove valuable as there won`t be many that has survived. Books will make a revival, just like vinyl records are doing now. Some of them old records from the 60s (1st prints) are going for a small fortune.
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Basically, £5 a volume for 41 Timeform books is terrific value to any true racing enthusiast Tell Del. Wish I had bought them rather than sticking my dough on scabby Arsenal at 8/11 to beat poxy Bournemouth. Man sent off and in big trouble now. In the 70s a very good team getting a man sent off didn`t make a difference. Top team with 10 men would still pummel a far lesser team. Now, they take a striker off and replace the defender that was sent off and play for a 0-0 draw. They are all scared to lose.
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Does anybody remember the old Haig racing annuals? They were very good too and a lot cheaper, with basic paperback editions.
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There are a few of highly trusted sellers on eBay who regularly offer the old Timeform Annuals, in good nick that, as lamented in the O/P, fetch prices that almost bring tears to the eyes - I'd recommend comptonbrothers and ulsan01.
Am now back to picking up editions from the 1950's and have most of them. A lovely coincidence that the 1953 edition was delivered on Derby day this year and I opened it and read the essay covering Pinza - a delight to read and a cracking good Derby winner too. |
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Not going off topic as regarding racing books , do any of you buy horses in training every year ?
I only ask because I used to buy it religiously every year for reference but not bothered for a long time now. Just wondering whether it's a pattern because we now have the Internet or maybe everyone still buys it every year and it's just me that doesn't ! I used to find it useful and referred to it many tines through a year but it was primarily when I was working in racing rather than as a hobby. Just curious if others have done the same or different to me . |
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No longer exists!
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Verbotene , that's an interesting post. Nice to hear.
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Saxon, oh ! They needed me to carry on buying it every year then.
 That's a shame. I used to rate it and I still look at my old copies occasionally as it's nice to see the names of old horses and trainers / jockeys etc and be reminded of them. I suppose much the same nostalgia as flicking through a tineform annual. |
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I have 30/40 years of Horses In Training, but they are tucked away, and I rarely look at them. Gave up when it became too expensive. Could never fathom why trainers were not listed in alphabetical order. Madness.
Would endorse comment about ulsan. Bought plenty off him. A little while ago I found some writing on a 60's Timeform, and he sent me a replacement at no cost. This was just something that hadn't been noticed, but it is annoying when sellers don't list if copies are clean. |
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Good post VL. I wouldn`t expect you to type in the Pinza essay from 1953 but is it possible for you to scan it and post it here? It would prove interesting to read, I`m sure. Norman Bertie off the top of my head without Googling and the great Sir Gordon of course. Greatest jockey of all time, imo.
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I bought HiT religiously from 2004 to 2023. Just checked and I missed it somehow in 2024 but a 2024 edition certainly exists.
Maybe that was it. Don't know. |
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Used too know a lap dancer who worked in Halifax. She bought an house called it Dixon towers. I told her should have called it 44DD drive. She chuckled. Said the timing was out
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TMM - I would really struggle to use a scanner though my I pad which I type on now does apparently have one.
As you say, trained by Norman Bertie and though I praised the essay it does fail to mention that that Pinza was bred by his former boss Fred Darling who passed away shortly after, and for whom Gordon ended up on the wrong one at Epsom more than once. The Timeform piece describes the horse as a " far from accepted classic type, for he lacks fine blood like quality one expects to see in a thoroughbred of the highest class. Nobody could describe him as handsome. But he is a strongly masculine horse, heavy topped with great depth and tremendous girth. He seems in the portrait to be slightly back at the knee on his near fore, and, looking at his forelegs, and considering the great weight of the horse, it is not altogether surprising that a tendon should have given way in the course of his preparation for the St Leger" The essay also goes on to mention that very few Derby winners are able to stay in training and progress in line with the wfa scale ( it was 17lb then) but considered that Pinza might have been able to overcome that barrier. |
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I collected the Timeform Racehorse annuals for the flat back in the 1980's and 1970's. After lugging about 15 of them around two house moves I sold them on Ebay for about 10% less than the price I had paid for them. That was in 2006.
But, about 5 years back I saw how the bottom had fallen out of the market and started buying them again for up to £20 each - average price £14 approx. Mostly bought from the earlier mentioned ulsan... Now I have a straight run from 1959 to 2005, plus a few after that. Luckily, I have space in my study for them and will never let them go again. Eventually I will have the full lot up to the final one. Of course, they are very hard to read because the print is so small but the pictures alone are often brilliant. Those on here talking about why the price has completely caved in on them are dead right - younger generations have no time for stuff like this. BUT, lets not forget that antiques are best judged over pretty long time periods. In my view, these annuals are real works of art and capture what was a huge aspect of British life not that long ago. One, day when fashions and views change, I believe these annuals will again be very sought after - but it probably will not be in my lifetime seeing as I am now 64! So, whomever I leave them to will do very well to hang on to them until the price again reflects just what wonderful books they are. BTW, one final comment about just how special these books are: In the Errata page which corrects errors from previous editions (quite amazing in itself) one correction in a 1990's volume corrects a mistake made 25 years or so earlier when a horse was given as the fifth grandson of a certain dam- terrible error because it was actually the sixth!!! Talk about attention to detail! Pity the young of today do not take at least that from these books... |
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Thanks VL for the info on Pinza.
I agree TK with what you say about the production and fine detail. |
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Phil Bull was a great raconteur and very decent man. He used to watch the race from the Judge`s box at Ayr, such was the high esteem he was granted. It wouldn`t be allowed nowadays.
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We’ve gone from. The stone time pieces in jaipour to phillbull.on the line with his stopwatch. To a lap dancer in Halifax. Unsure which Dixon tips better.
But. Their knowledge of the stats over come her dancing ability. Everyoneended up happy |
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Over last month chucked all my old superform weely formbooks. Real wrench for me. For 8 years between 2002 to 2009 spent 2 hours a day pouring over them on the daily commute from ascot to london.
Good old nostalgia. The level of insight was just brilliant in the comments |