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seems to be loads and laods of them and none if any look like being anywhere near as good as their Dad.
lots of owners must have done their dough on this
lots of owners must have done their dough on this
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Nothing really high profile this season but 140 of his progeny have achieved a rating of 100 or more which is very impressive. And the top 10 are over 120 which is Group 1 class. Cracksman, Mostadhaf, Inspiral, Nashwa, Westover, Adayar, Chaldean, Hurricane Lane, Alpinista, Onesto (over £1 million in prize money) In the 2023 Arc, just 12 months ago, Ace Impact was by Cracksman so a grandson and Westover and Onesto were both by Frankel so first 3 in an Arc descended from him. And of course in 2022 he sired Alpenista the winner. Hard to see any of his progeny winning the Arc tomorrow but (Delius the only one) no sire can produce the winner every year. Juan Elcano, a full brother of Delius, was a Royal Ascot winner. Spirit Dancer is only rated 118 at best but has won £1.7 million.
As Frankel is still rated the best horse ever seen, it is not statistically likely that any of his progeny will be better than him. |
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thanks sage but what about all the proginy that have done fa?
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Sired 100 group winners in quicker order than Galileo and dubawi.
not too shabby and only a matter of time before there's a worldie. |
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Nothing high profile this season except Bedtime Story and Lake Victoria?
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Sires are a really interesting field of study in racing - the range of ability they produce is amazing, right from completely useless to world beaters often, all from same sire - course the dam plays a genetic part too. But essentially the variation is massive, for every sire.
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OP also seems to ignore that that Frankel only contributes half the genes to his offspring.
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this is known as the greatest cystern known to man,it very rarely fails , and one of his sons runs in the arc!
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Frankel still in with a chance of being champion sire this season (currently around £300K behind Dubawi), but what caught my eye about the standings was Dark Angel being in second place and 'only' around £100K behind. I thought it must be decades since a sprinter was champion sire, but actually it's not that long ago - Danehill Dancer and before him his sire Danehill.
Dark Angel will probably need Charyn to win the QE2 to stand any chance, and may also have Art Power going for a repeat win in the sprint on Champions Day. |
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As of the other day, Coolmore have just 2 stallions in the top 13 and none in the top 6, but obviously if Justify can get a few more like City Of Troy, that will all change.
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* Two living stallions that should be because Galileo is in third place
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George, whilst Danehill Dancer and Danehill did indeed run over 6-8f, their progeny tended to do better at 1m plus, and some of them went on to be jumps sires.
Dark Angel, on the other hand, is an out and out sprint sire, with virtually all of his best progeny being sprinters (and sires of sprinters), which makes his achievement all the more remarkable. |
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A point well made, undertaker, and is probably why when I was thinking about the last sprinter to be champion sire, the Danehills didn't immediately come to mind because my perception is that they weren't necessarily the sires of sprinters, but when racing they were both Group 1 winners at 6f even if they were proven over further too.
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Danehill seemed to get winners over a big range of distances but that could be the influence of the mares. Dark Angel does get milers.
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His record is a little better if you disregard those running on anything with soft/heavy/yeilding in the going description.
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obviously so dave
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Dark Angel must be long odds-on now to be champion sire after Charyn's win?
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be interesting to know how many he has sired and the percentage strike rate by class of race
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over 1,500 since 2016 alone. Would have been 8 yrs by then.
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Highest rated during that period: Cracksman 130 OR
Lowset rated during that period: Polar Fleece 50 OR |
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wow thats a lot of sireing -didnt realise there was so many
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how many group winners?
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Aug 12, 2024
Champion Sire Frankel has sired 100 Group/Graded winners in a record time of 3144 days, ahead of Danehill (also bred by Juddmonte), Deep Impact, Galileo and Dubawi. Two-year-old filly Lake Victoria, became Frankel's 100th Group/Graded winner with a comfortable victory in the Gr.3 Sweet Solera Stakes at Newmarket on Saturday. Of this feat, Juddmonte's General Manager UK, Simon Mockridge said: "Frankel and his record-making achievements seem to know no bounds. Frankel excels physically and mentally in all that he does - from racehorse to stallion, and simply in his day-to-day routine. What a privilege it is to witness this extraordinary horse in our lifetime.” “It goes without saying this significant milestone and Frankel’s status as one of the sport’s elite sires could not have been reached without the support of our breeders worldwide to whom we are extremely grateful.” “Frankel’s importance to the sport of horseracing cannot be underestimated both as a household name that extends far beyond our industry, and to the thoroughbred breed. Frankel and his progeny are the jewels in the crown that is Prince Khalid’s legacy of dedication and passion for the thoroughbred which has been rewarded beyond comprehension; the same commitment is felt by his family for Juddmonte and its horses.” Frankel was crowned Champion Sire in 2021 and 2023 and has been leading sire by prize money in Europe for the last three years. In 2023, he sired more Group One winners (11), Group winners (27) and Stakes winners (42) than any other stallion in the world. His 34 Group 1 winners to date include European Classic winners: Chaldean, Soul Sister, Westover, Homeless Songs, Adayar, Anapurna, Nashwa, Hurricane Lane and Logician as well as Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe winner Alpinista, European Champion Cracksman, Australian Oaks winner Hungry Heart, Japanese Oaks winner Soul Stirring and Breeders’ Cup Filly & Mare Turf winner Inspiral. Frankel is currently achieving an incredible 12% Group winners to runners and 17% blacktype winners to runners. https://stallions.juddmonte.com/post/frankel-sires-100-group-winners-in-record-time |
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wow thanks leif impressive
tyvm |
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Dark Angel, nearly £400K clear in the sire table after yesterday. Who was the last sprinter (didn't win beyond 6f) to be champion sire?
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I don't know btw, must be a long time ago?
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Might have been Desmond in 1913.
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Thanks top2rated, good research.
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Trying to remember the name of a very successful sire of the 1980s who was a full brother to a good horse (I think Sadlers Wells) but never ran himself. I have searched for the dam Fairy Bridge but as the horse never ran, it does not come up on the RP search.
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sageform - you're probably thinking of Fairy King. He did run once, but injured himself. He sired Falbrav and Helissio amongst others.
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The Tetrarch and his son Tetratema were both sprinters, and champion sires, (1919 and 1929 resp).
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Cheers ged
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Yes thanks ged. Fairy King it was.
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Great thread, very interesting, thanks.
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Three of Frankel's in with chances today?
Achillea 4.10 Southwell Baltic 6.45 Southwell Imitate 8.30 Chelmsford City |
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Stats from France Galop are frightening.
All produce they record (incl 2024 foals) = 708 No of runners = 1,264 No of winners = 269 I.E. 21.28 of his RUNNERS WIN Early Zarak was 20%+ but has since diluted. Galileo lifetime 16% Not sure there would be anything comparable. So even tho' I am not a fan - fair play. ps regarding the duds. Fascinating to see what happens to this £10,000 bargain basement buy. Estifraad unraced 3yo by Frankel out of Jahafil, an unraced daughter of Oaks and KG/QEstakes winner Tagrooda. aparently Shadwell ahppy to have no reserves and they didn't geld this pre-sale. Buyer was Rodolfo Daniel Figueroa Gonzalez who may in fact be Swedish. Caught my eye as the sale was the same day as the puffery regarding Frankels £350,000 covering fee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |