economics winning a far superior race today than COT at york

Great battling performance
Don't know what price it went in running?

Super performance but it's probably down to whether you think AR is better than Calandagan. I don't.

I think the Irish Champion has more depth than The Juddmonte. How much depth it has is opened to interpretation eg Auguste Rodin is no world beater - he's hyped; 10f is too short for Los Angeles; Ghostwriter is only Gp 2 at best. The top 7 horses finished within 3l of one another.

Economics is a very good horse. He beat the rest fairly and squarely. Is he as good as Almanzor?

The average of the Official Ratings of all the runners in yesterday's race was 116. The same average for COT's York race was 116.

But, COT smashed the course record when making his own running (albeit with a tailwind all the way up the straight on very fast ground).

So, they appear to be the same quality of race.

It would be a great clash if COT and Economics were to meet...

City Of Troy, Economics and Look De Vega over 10f? This will be tasty, if so.

likewise would love to see them clash but sadly wont happen.
I strongly suspect City of Troy last run will be in the classic win lose or draw then its off to Stud.

AR is a can we race you every week horse,you,d like to think listening to AOB.ryan etc that if COY is anywhere near the horse they tell us he is 24/7,he,d eat economics for breakfast

Two entirely different perfor…actually I can’t be bothered explaining this one.

It wasn't an outstanding timefigure  the Knight ( COT )  if you believe timeform  they had it the 15th best timefigure in the race this century.  So it looks like COT and the wind jointly "smashed"  the track record.

I don't think Calandagan got the best ride for a 12f horse. Had to do the quickest furlong ( 3f-2f  10.74 ) to get in the race. Don't think it cost him the race.  Should have a long time to see how good he is. Might just boost what COT did.

Forget about figures and track records, COT  had no group1 horses in competition, in fact only time hes come up against group1 horses he was trounced in gns,    Economics , beat derby, winner, irish derby winner, coronation  cup winner

You can throw a hanky over the 1ST 4 yesterday.

Awkward track and awkward race, AOB controlling half the field. I feel like it's very positive for Economics that he was able to defeat the tactical deficit, but he had a very hard race.

elisjohn15 Sep 24 15:01Joined: 15 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 18,498 | Blogger: elisjohn's blog
Forget about figures and track records, COT  had no group1 horses in competition, in fact only time hes come up against group1 horses he was trounced in gns.

He did Bluestocking.

I didn't think he had much of a race and had more trouble pulling him up afterwards,he only got going late. I was very impressed.

oh of course Bluestocking  forgot

howard..yes, I know. the track record in the Acomb was also wind assisted.

I was at York that day and when I left after the fifth race and got outside I was struck by just how fierce the wind had become. I believe the 2nd and the 3rd also broke the track record in the race, so the wind was a big factor.

BUT, COT did make his own running and the 4th home won today in France. Whether COT is as good as Ballydoyle believe, we don't know. but it is pretty daft for people to crib at the champion 2yo, the Derby, Eclipse and Juddmonte winner!!!

Indeed, refusing to accept things at face value and trying to be 'too clever by half' was one of the faults I ironed out of my punting some 12 years ago - pity it took 42 years to do it!!

There is also a form line that elisjohn has maybe forgotten. Perhaps it is dubious, but Blusestocking did finish well in front of Augustus Rodine in the King George at Ascot (yes, likely AR did not give his true running) while Economics had to fight to beat him only a neck yesterday.

I have learned that trying to form a definite opinion about contrasting and slightly muddled form is often the fast way to the poor house. Better to just enjoy the racing itself and await better punting opportunities elsewhere, be they in either Group OR class 6 races.

Love that last sentence The Knight   

Bluestocking wins a good Vermaille today. COT's form not too shoddy is it lads.

As my last word on this - and I am not especially defending COT - let us also remember that COT beat Ghostwriter by 4.5 lengths in the Juddmonte while Economics only beat Ghostwriter 2 lengths yesterday. COT also beat Ghostwriter 2 lengths in the Eclipse. and yes, I know, Ghostwriter did beat COT in the GNS but surely something was wring with COT that day?

Actually the Juddmonte race did show something which helps illustrate my point below - and i am giving away one of my main trade secrets here! COT beat Ghostwriter 2 lengths in the Eclipse and was massively in front of him in the GNS. In the Juddmonte, COT was 5/4. Now, if you fancied COT for that race, it would have been advisable to consider that if Ghostwriter was again within 2 lengths of him at York, the latter would likely finish in the first 4.

But the 4-place only price on here for GW was close to 4/1. My point is that the hidden value was surely a 4 place bet on GW at 4/1 instead of 5/4 COT to win? It was a point not lost on me and is what I look for in top class races where form is more reliable. I have never heard any TV pundits look at a race from the angle I took that day.

Anyway, whether the  form facts over COT and Economics will ever mean anything is unlikely due to how COT and Economics will likely never meet. But, too many pundits today do try to sound too clever with their talk of 'sectionals, draw, tactics, pace-angles etc etc'. (They do have a part to play but should only rarely be a punter's principal approach to a race.)

What has happened to good old collateral form? I was at Catterick last week in the Racing UK VIP lounge. The two Racing UK experts that day gave us a preview and it was full of sectionals, pace-angles, draw, going etc etc. How many winners did they end up tipping between them? Not bl**dy many!!

Not knocking the Racing UK guys because they spoke very well, but over complicating this game, which is still basically about horses running around a field, is not a good idea!!!

Sectionals have given the experts another thing to fill the airwaves, has it helped to make them all rich, I think we know the answer.

Ghostwriter was disappointing yesterday, had the perfect trip into the race, did not pull hard for once and only found the one pace. As already noted, the track is quirky to say the least and the spectre of team tactics means that it felt a bit unsatisfactory to me.

What's quirky about Leopardstown?
Always thought it was a fair track.

It's very quirky with the dip into the tight turn, slingshot into the straight and uphill. Anything that ends up at the back in a largish field relies on them going too quickly to stand a chance. Otherwise they are forced to make up ground being slung wide with the front runners going away. That was TM's predicament yesterday, as it wasn't a large field but got the outside stall and ballydoyle were mob handed. He chose to take the medicine and burn petrol in a poor trip to ensure he got a clean run.

Never had it down as anything but a good track.

I didn’t see the race,was watching the Brad Pitt film burn after reading,whilst keeping an eye on my footy bet.won a bit of Leyton o,mind you easy game ,think the manager rested a few for bigger games coming up.

I’m sure Tom knew what he was doing,he rode frankel,he clearly knows how to plot the right path.it paid off cos he won the race.

Not necessarily saying it's not a good track, but it's not York for example. A conventional left handed track drawn 8 I'm sure he would have simply slotted in a the back of the pack. Obviously everyone was aware of the carve up last year. Ryan had a big tactical advantage knowing the rag was a dummy and that a good horse was going to be pressing on, so he could hold his one up. So as I am alluding to it was a mix of the track and the threat of team tactics.

Maybe the coolmore team have bigger races for the ir horses,so winning yesterday wasn’t their objective,so economics got lucky meeting them

I wish sectionals/ pace were the answer and then we wouldn't have Blake, lynch etc throwing stride lengths down our throats 24/7, they,ll move on to something new AI inspired next

I would have Calandagan a good favourite to beat Economics in the Champion Stakes. Auguste Rodin has been beaten far too many times, and they all finished in a heap with the winner virtually falling over the line. It didn't look impressive at all. I think you can mark up what Calandagan did at York, and he was an impressive winner of his only start at Ascot.

If you can mark up Calandagan then the same must be said of Economics, unlike King Of Steel last year he overcame adversity and the track and KOS was much better suited to Ascot as should be the case with Economics?

"Forget about figures and track records, COT  had no group1 horses in competition, in fact only time hes come up against group1 horses he was trounced in gns,    Economics , beat derby, winner, irish derby winner, coronation  cup winner"       Apart from an Arc winner

geoff m15 Sep 24 15:38Joined: 23 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 19,670 | Blogger: geoff m's blog
elisjohn15 Sep 24 15:01Joined: 15 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 18,498 | Blogger: elisjohn's blog
Forget about figures and track records, COT  had no group1 horses in competition, in fact only time hes come up against group1 horses he was trounced in gns.

He did Bluestocking.