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even if he wins the kg , arc , they blew it at the gns
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past history suggests they will exhaust it at the curragh then form will tail off
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In a way I think you’re right Elisjohn - but they’d take losing over a mile, to dominate over 12f all day long.
Frankel didn’t try his luck at any of the races you mentioned. Sea the Stars won the Guineas and the Arc, and bypassed the KG Over ground concerns from memory. For me he’s the forgotten horse of this millenium. |
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*aside the Guineas
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2,000 Guineas is chip wrappings , it's all about the 12f Blue Riband stuff now
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Yeah it’s lost its significance a little. There’s no prelude to the Guineas. Bang, the flat season starts right there. The craven meeting is a damp squib. O’Brien always leaves them half ready anyway. Wet spring, horse that’s got to last till November came in fresh for whatever reason. The lads won’t give a monkeys.
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they wont want many more 12f victories for this horse unless its the arc or a breeders cup . many derby winners go forward as jumps stallions . they will want a champion stakes , maybe via the eclipse .
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and he might be their frankel , but he wont be frankel . and as much as we respect and admire aidan as a great trainer and i've met him ... he wont be loved like henry .
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I don't think they have to worry about that windsor, not with his 2yo form.
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dancing brave is the best ive ever seen, he won craven, gns,( derby unlucky ), eclipse king george all in the space of 4 months , and guy had him spot on , Frankel was a specialist miler who was outstanding, henry knew all about him and im certain he wouldnt have won over 12 furlongs, but his training prog by imo the best trainer ever was perfection.
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elisjohn -- Frankel was a specialist miler...
Ah, but was that partly because riding groom Queally could not settle him? Frankel certainly seems to be passing on stamina to his offspring. |
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Actually, now I've written that, I'm wondering if it is really true. Frankel has got some top milers, after all. Maybe it depends on the distaff side.
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Agreed elisjohn
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In my view once Frankel had been taught to settle as a 4 year old he got 10f comfortably and I expected connections at the very least to have tried 12f.
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Frankel would have stayed 12f no problem - his brothers did and he wasn't stopping at the end at York and champions day. I guess after the Guineas settling him for epsom seemed a problem - i think Cecil and Abdullah both in fragile health not the time to be adventurous
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Biggest unanswered question will always remain , if Aidan had trained Frankel would it have won the Epsom Derby ?
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I don't really understand the health excuse at all. The yard was still functioning and here was their once in a lifetime horse being held back.
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hayden, unless Aidan had managed to get the horse to settle then I wouldn't have expected it to run.
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We'll never know sparrow but Aidan is Aidan and not forgetting he'd have arguably had a superior jockey on board.
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Hayden 04 Jun 24 14:16
Biggest unanswered question will always remain , if Aidan had trained Frankel would it have won the Epsom Derby ? Who knows, one thing for sure though, Aiden would have told us it was their best ever, and for once he'd have been right. |
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i must admit, i thought that frankel didnt have much left in the locker at ascot champions day
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I thought it would have stayed and certainly never expected the Brigadier to stay but he tried and did it and that horse started out over 5f in the Brocklesby.
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sparrow
I don’t think Brigadier Gerard ran in The Brocklesby. Thought his first race was at Newbury in June. |
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It was probably class rather than staying that got The Brigadier a King George win , beating Parnell was a massive effort followed by a 20 min stewards enquiry.
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Brigadier Gerard began his career as a two-year-old on 24 June 1970, in the Berkshire Stakes at Newbury. The race was run on good ground over five furlongs and attracted a field of five runners including three previous winners. Brigadier Gerard was ridden by Joe Mercer and was relatively unfancied at odds of 100/7. In the race Mercer sat behind the more experienced runners until approaching the two furlong marker where, when he gave the Brigadier the office he strode eight to ten lengths clear before being allowed to ease down before the line for an easy five length success. John Lawrence in the Daily Telegraph wrote: "This was the big bay colts first race, but showing no sign of inexperience he proceeded to treat his opponents, including three previous winners, with total disrespect."[4]
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would doubt Dik Hern would ever have had a runner in the Brocklesby .Not his M.O.
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Apologies my mistake on the Brocklesby and yes should have said Berkshire Stakes.
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going off on a slight detour here but an earlier poster on this thread mentioned sea the stars as being almost forgotten . could not agree more . staggering what he achieved as a 3 y o ...6 gr1 wins in 6 consec. mths , 1m to 11/2 miles , varying ground and very different courses in europe . without him o'brien would have had the first 4 home in the derby and whitewashed the juddmonte at york . incidentally, o'brien threw a total of 12 different horses at the board to beat him that year ... i know we would of really liked to have seen him as a 4 y o but he wont be the first or last in that dept and his arc win will live long in my memory . .. and before anyone jumps in that includes the brave too !
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Agree with every word Windsor
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So very true about Sea The Stars windsor and one of the all time greats.
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sea the stars the greatest ever season from a 3yo - honourable mentions to dancing brave, mill reef, enable.
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