What a farce

Wot a joke.
Just have a stewards at the end if there was an issue?

Strange 75% of the jockeys happily gave up the race
(or they're not the brightest buttons)

TWO runner race ffs...

Apr 8, 2024 -- 8:36PM, GEORGE.B wrote:

Nowt wrong with that start imo

Looked ok to me too. All stalls opened together imo

did the 'flag man' who is normally 1f down the track wave their flag ?

Just have a VAR at the end of the race ffs!

Just have a stewards at the end if there was an issue?

Exactly Wesdag, did the starter think it was three miles round Towcester?

Stalls all opened together.Can't see what was wrong
with that start.

imagine both were having a quiet one ???

StillLearning08 Apr 24 20:41Joined: 13 Jun 12 | Topic/replies: 11,185 | Blogger: StillLearning's blog
Apr 8, 2024 -- 8:36PM, GEORGE.B wrote:

Nowt wrong with that start imo


Looked ok to me too. All stalls opened together imo..


Im sure they will concoct some cack & bull story to cover their @rses.

Starter said go before he pressed the button. It's a hard job to remember to do it in that order 7 times in 4 hours

not* to do it in that order
Told you it's a hard job
I can't even type it correctly

Some lovely InRunning prices immediately at the off, on the winner.

I wanted to cash out but the stupid cash out button was not there for some reason.

only thing i saw from the 1st start was Dennis went to start on his, and the stalls never opened.

but looked the same for all.

If that had been the 8.00,not the 8.30,last leg in the Placepot...
Would have given a massive dividend with 10 runners units all going on the new fav, and pennies on the outsider

2.5-1 winner?

Pint of bear was my pick and he couldn't even win a 2 horse race.

Poppy, what was the max?

Gaze, you don't know how much that last post of yours made me chuckle

85p rule 4

Reg is that fact? I thought it would've been the max 90p. be interesting to see what the BSP ends up they're doing it in dribs and drabs and slowly

Swifty, just saw it on sporting life fast results

At the moment looks like Pint of Bear pre-off price was 1.01.

Don't know about Rose Fandango.

But there was someone who put thousands in to lay either. Could have been a very smart move if these prices remain accurate.

1.o1 for 11g

Still another to take out

I backed both just before the off, im currently minus on both horses

my odds have been reduced to 1.01 and 1.71

I backed the runner-up in the 4pl and 3pl market, not on the Exchange, actually with Sky b3t, and they've paid both as winners with an 85p R4. Literally, free money :-)

Looks like 3.75-1 on the books and 3.89-1 on here.

j foxxx, incredibly cunning work.

25/1 the books and .80p rule 4!!

every horse a non runner 3TBP and 4TBP on here. 364 will void your bets no doubt

Apr 8, 2024 -- 9:01PM, freddiewilliams wrote:

1.o1 for 11g

Now 12k. All pre-off I think.

the horses who did not take part/how did everyone all get permission from the stewards so quickly to withdraw their horses,or is it a case of the jockeys just deciding to go home.

Just extremely lucky swifty... but as my luck usually goes in the other direction I will take it!

365 have paid out @ 25/1 with 80p rule 4, the second paid out ew extra only. HTH

EW Market - ¼ odds, 1 places  Never seen that before

j foxxx, I hope they honour it! Certainly opens up a new way to land a coup.

Still to be paid on my IR winner.
Got 3.8s to 7.8s at the off

Paid now.

They've knocked the original green amount down by about 5-7%
Must have been something with hitting the button at the right time

Happy enough

Paid out and all Swifty. £31.50 profit for a horse to come 3rd and 4th in a two horse race. You gotta love that :-)

if Sky b3t are still laying your bets they'll be extremely confident of getting the £31.50 back. 

and the rest.

j foxxx, i love that though, they cover (nearly) everything in their T&Cs , betting rules, R4s etc and then something like that happens and they scrabble around and are buggered!

Not sure what you mean hulk. The horse was in the first 4. It was second actually. That's in the first 4 so they have to pay out according to their rules.

And the whole thing was a total fluke/freak event. The bet was placed about 8:28pm.

You sound a bit dim and nasty and remind me why I haven't posted on this forum in about 10 years.

Thanks for reinforcing what a good decision that was.

Thanks Swifty. One of the good guys...

well done foxxy, enjoy your winnings. ignore Hulk, hes the forum nutter. Hes also deluded,bitter and has no respect. Thats why Ive blocked him

An enquiry was held to establish the circumstances which led to a false start being called in this race after the stalls had initially failed to open when the Starter dropped his flag and pressed the button. KIMIFIVE (IRE), GORDONSTOUN (IRE), MUDLAHHIM (IRE), RAVENGLASS (IRE), SWISS ROWE (IRE), ABSOLUTE DREAM (IRE), PORT NOIR and CARRY ON AITCH (IRE) were all withdrawn after having completed the course prior to being pulled up, whilst Stuart Kittow elected to withdraw his runner ORIENTAL SPIRIT, which went keenly for several furlongs before being pulled up by its rider. This left only A PINT OF BEAR (IRE) and ROSE FANDANGO as the only runners after they had both passed Veterinary examinations upon returning to the start, having been pulled up early in the back straight. The Starters, the Starting Stalls team leader, the Clerk of the Course, the Executive Director, the Advanced Flag Operator, Trainee Advance Flag Operator and all riders were interviewed and shown recordings. Having heard their evidence, the Stewards ordered a report to be forwarded to the Head Office of the British Horseracing Authority.

Thanks TTT. That makes a lot of sense. Heis clearly so twisted and negative that he didn't realise that I was describing having a massive slice of luck. He seemed to think I was boasting about pulling off some genius coup after the false start.

I wish I was that clever. I was actually $hitting bricks thinking I had to be on the winner of the 2 horse race and that I'd done my money on a farce!!

Well done foxxy
Bit of common sense I suppose seeing as you placed the bet prior to the false start and were obviously not "trying it on"

the only thing i was thinking foxxxy was this.

skyb3t are taking your bets.  that means they think you will not be a long term winner with them.  and they will recoup the £31 you won (well done btw).  and possibly more. 

when this changes, you will get a nice email from them explaining you are no longer welcome to bet with them because you're no longer deemed economically viable.

Yeah Reg, agreed, probably best not to try to rely on winnings solely from exploiting a mass false start and withdrawal every 15 years :-)

I understood that hulk but still no need for the negativity over a chance piece of good luck. And I'm aware that there's always the Exchanges after all the other bookies cotton on to my relentless winning streaks :-)

Pity you didn't have it doubled up with a total eclipse in the USA today...
That's every 50 years

no negativity about that Foxxxy.  None at all.  Was more a pop at our good friends at skyb3t, and any of the other scumbags, who refuse to lay 99% of the people on here an egg.

Imagine this scenario
Similar thing happens this Saturday at GN
We had a false start about 30 years ago so not impossible
And 2 of them set off, with 32 non runners!

OK, unlikely, I know

Derby ??

two runners  6/1 shot and 25/1 outsider.

Reg, that is absurd and a million to one.....but you have a point and I'm sure rule books are being written just in case!

None at all.  Was more a pop at our good friends at skyb3

Absolute bullocks - you, like everybody else on here, knows exactly what you are  laboriously trying to say when you drag out the old 'if the bookie takes your bet' lines. Pathetic.

what i'm saying is they only want losers / mugs / casino players / and all the rest.

if you've got a clue, seek value, win, don't lose quickly enough, don't play their crack cocaine slots.  you're not welcome. 

that's what i'm "laboriously trying to say"

are you saying otherwise ??

4.89 and 1.24 the BFSPs

25-1 and 6-1 with an 85p. R4 = 3.75-1 and 0.9- 1 , nice if you backed those 2 big.

Apr 8, 2024 -- 11:11PM, swiftynifty wrote:

25-1 and 6-1 with an 85p. R4 = 3.75-1 and 0.9- 1 , nice if you backed those 2 big.

Prices were still available after the false start. You could have got on both of the runners before the official off at 6/1 and 25/1 as no new book formed.

100 on the 6/1 chance got you 190 and a nifty on the 25/1chance got you 187.50 - a minimum profit of 37.50 for every 150 staked.

Same thing happened at Carlisle many moons ago (mid 80's I think)

I got a query on this race, backed Rose Fandango @ 34 pre race on the exchange and put a lay up at evens that was kept in running. The adjusted SP was 4.9, however the lay I put up was not adjusted and I actually lost money on the race, is this correct?

Unlucky colupaul but that is correct with Betfair rules. There is no reduction factors for inrunning and they do not automatically apply reduction factors on your keep bet.

Some people on this thread have gained nicely on this situation but you were on the other side of the coin!

Thanks for the clarification Brian, much appreciated…

Colupaul- The down side to trading, two different markets.

Is that right Brian?

In the win market: if the reduction factor of the non-runner is 2.5% or greater, the traded price of all the matched bets on the remaining horses will be reduced by an amount equal to the non-runner's final reduction factor and all the unmatched offers to lay will be cancelled. If the non-runner's reduction factor is less than 2.5%, reductions will not be applied and unmatched bets will not be cancelled.

It was an umatched offer to lay, keep bet or not. If it was matched before the restart then this applies:


Reduction factors are not applied to bets which are struck in-play. However, if a market is turned in-play prematurely by error (or, for example, there is a false start), all bets matched during this time will be subject to any later reduction factor, provided the market is turned out of play before the race commences.

Hi Dave

"all the unmatched offers to lay will be cancelled" That doesn't apply to keep bets.

"However, if a market is turned in-play prematurely by error (or, for example, there is a false start), all bets matched during this time will be subject to any later reduction factor, provided the market is turned out of play before the race commences." I presume Colupaul's  evens keep bet was not taken during the false start period but during the two runner race.

yeah I found that in another bit, but


As described above, when a non-runner is removed from a horseracing market (apart for late withdrawals as described in the next bullet point below), it is Betfair's policy to cancel unmatched offers to lay all other horses in the market if the non-runner has a reduction factor of 2.5% or greater for win markets, or 4.0% or greater for place markets. In these circumstances offers to lay a horse with the 'At In-Play: Keep' option selected will not be cancelled. Instead the lay odds offered in place markets will be reduced in proportion with the reduction factors of any non-runner(s) and the same will apply in win markets providing the relevant non-runner has a reduction factor of at least 2.5%.

So the kept lay price should have been reduced.

which seems logical and fair, but might not have happened because of false start plus withdrawals.

Interesting Dave but I use keep bets a lot over many years and have never had odds of a keep bet reduced once the race has started.

well the rules are pretty clear and as I said fair and logical.

and surely you would cancel a keep lay bet if there was a significant non-runner?

btw the above para is from no. 10 in exchange general rules (and not in the horse racing section where it should be).

https://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Rules.and.Regulations/#keepbets
.

if you placed a 'keep bet' lay at evens that price should've reduced significantly as thenon-runners came out pre-race. Your evens lay bet should absolutely not have been settled at evens.

In saying that

If Betfair does not cancel lay 'keep' bets in the case of a late withdrawal (for example, it may not be possible to know which horse is withdrawn, at the time of the off), any such bets placed before the off and matched in-play will remain at the original selected price. This means that those lay 'keep' bets will not be subject to any reduction factor which as a result of the late withdrawal, will be applied after the completion of the race to bets matched at or before the 'off'.
Otherwise, in exceptional cases Betfair reserves the right to cancel 'keep' bets to protect customers but, unless stipulated in the market rules or the market information, the general principle is that at no point will a 'keep' bet be cancelled by Betfair unless it remains unmatched when the market is closed (for the final time) at the end of the event.


if that wasn't an exceptional case I don't know what is, email Peter Jackson, you'll get it re-settled or free credits for the difference if nothing else.

@regbutler

"Imagine this scenario
Similar thing happens this Saturday at GN
We had a false start about 30 years ago so not impossible"

There was a FS in the GN much more recently than that - maybe ten years ago?

False starts are not a problem unless there are horses withdrawn particularly if they are at the top of the market.

If you aware of the issues, you will mostly cancel your keep bets as Dave has suggested earlier. As such it is not a massive problem but it can catch those that are unaware of the situation.

Only racing is able to turn such a simple incident into a farce.

In a flat race such this, the sensible solution would've been the to let the race go ahead then let the stewards decide what happened after the race.

The flag man should merely let the stewards & punters know that there maybe an issue.

HERE IS THE RULES.rule 4 applies to all bets placed prior to withdrawals .
A NEW MARKET WAS FORMED FOR THE TWO HORSE RACE.imvho.
NOT SURE IF THE RULES WERE APPLIED.?

seen far worse starts and race proceeds and result allowed to stand, starter and flag man let down by technology and panicked I guess.

And for todays entertainment we have a delay while they tow the starting stalls through some marshland. Great stuff.

and they expect folk to pay through the gate to watch this $h1te.

And the course don't tell anyone, run by clowns

I took one look at the card on that ground and thought no thank you.

Hannity is right, why finish the card with 7f, 1 mile and then back to the 7f.

They must love moving the stalls about I guess

The cut backs in funding are biting. No microphones these days. Hard to see this race starting before dark.

Why are the horses not waiting near the start?

Betfair should put up betting for "how many farce's during today's racing?"

Hannity is right, why finish the card with 7f, 1 mile and then back to the 7f.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hannity's got an opinion on something ?

has he seen any of Paul Mulrennan's Newcastle rides over the last few years ?

To give the stalls team something to do between races. We normally see nothing of the stalls movements when they have 20 minutes to move them.

Niall and Amy "unsure what's going on". Why not take a quick walk to the weighing room or grab the clerk of the course or racecourse manager, you know to maybe ask a question or two. Something exclusive to provide your viewers with would be nice.

Investigative proactive, cutting edge journalism perhaps? Na, we'll just grab James Bethell and discuss that nobody knows anything.

I despair.

presenters/pundits do some investigating...???

i think this "what a farce" thread could be on page one of forum for a long time

Apr 9, 2024 -- 5:39PM, brassneck wrote:

i think this "what a farce" thread could be on page one of forum for a long time

One of the jockey's in the weighting room didn't even know what was going on as he came out to the paddock for the 5.15 when they still had the horses in it for the 4.45.

in hell, that would've just about summed up British racing, jockey too busy playing cards then rides wrong horse. Makes you wonder if that's what happened to the likes of Mernagh and Callan riding finishes a circuit early, not a clue what horse/race they're even in.

Just happened at Deauville so at least we're not the laughing stock of world racing..... well at least regarding starting stalls.