most underwhelming Cheltenham ever?

Bizzarely, the traditionally most unattractive card (Thursday), stood out as the most entertaining day, by some way.

Today was brilliant. In general the best jump jockey riding anywhere was top jockey, best trainer anywhere was top trainer, best horses in Champion Hurdle and Gold Cup won, brilliant novice performances.

I have to say that I have my fewest bets ever in this year's festival. Four in total.

I would have been in double figures in any other year.

And a amateur wun the Foxhunters

£85 to get in £7.50 for a drink £8 hamburger see more sitting at home chelt remind me of ebenezer scrooges

I fully agree but that is the same as last year and the year before and is nothing to do with the quality of the racing.
The punters have started the fightback though, with their feet.  If next year sees a similar dip in footfall they had better take notice.  They won;t though, because greed took over sometime ago.
As for the racing itself I thought it was exceptional.  My favourite festival for quite some time.

I'd 5 bets in total. I watched 2 races on day 1; 2 on day 2; 2 day 3; 2 day 4 = 8 in total. It's the most unexciting Cheltenham to me; the best moment was GDC completing another leg of my accas with a final leg in May.

Next year the to-watch horses are GDS (Gold Cup) and Constitution Hill (Champion - if he returns). That is it. As for antepost betting none at the moment.

I just backed Willie's horses in the Grade 1 races.......simple, but effective.

A question for yous.....Ballyburn versus Stateman ...who wins ?
Personally, I think Ballyburn may retire unbeaten one day.

Report•Quote•Block Userrichgit • March 15, 2024 5:44 PM GMT
A question for yous.....Ballyburn versus Stateman ...who wins ?
Personally, I think Ballyburn may retire unbeaten one day

Constitution Hill smashes Stateman up every day of the week if both fully fit and he comes back same horse. Ballyburn is unknown and to be honest Lossiemouth should have probably ran in the champion this year if that's what they want to win with her... as might be wrong but think it would have been a lot easier to win this year then next if Ballyburn and CH are both running

Defo most underwhelming Cheltenham I've seen too

Mar 15, 2024 -- 6:44PM, richgit wrote:

A question for yous.....Ballyburn versus Stateman ...who wins ?Personally, I think Ballyburn may retire unbeaten one day.

Ballyburn v Lossiemouth, that'll be the big one.

...indeed....

No i thought The Meeting was brilliant.

How does Willie end up with all these superstars ?.......is it his genius that makes them what they eventually become ?......or is it simply the best bloodstock conveyor belt delivered to him ?
Whatever it is,,,,,it's quite incredible....

Never bet at festivals so no pocket driven opinion on £0.00 , thoroughly enjoyable viewing though although the Thursday looked short on class and the day they could have done without with a small reshuffle and back to three days.

Report•Quote•Block Userrichgit • March 15, 2024 5:55 PM GMT
How does Willie end up with all these superstars ?.......is it his genius that makes them what they eventually become ?......or is it simply the best bloodstock conveyor belt delivered to him ?
Whatever it is,,,,,it's quite incredible....

Guessing it's his contacts who must be richly rewarded as people say he gets a lot of the horses before they get to the sales and other trainers have chance, so guessing he must put in strong offers for them not to take the horses to the sales

That being said he is brilliant at training them

Whatever his secret is everybody else has the same opportunities.
Everyone.

Like Aiden on the flat Mullins is gifted just consider yourself lucky you are sharing The Planet with them instead of giving them abuse.

Just imagine

Constitution Hill v State Man v Lossiemouth v Sir Gino v Ballyburn

That would revive the ailing race wouldn't it.

Dont make me laugh ffs Constitution Hill would eat them alive if he is on song.

Exactly.  What we have watched this week is simply sensational.  The scale of the achievement is phenomenal imo.  And so courteous, available, friendly, patient amidst the huge pressure of it all.  And he could easily do it all again next year judging on the ammunition he has shown us this week.

Mar 15, 2024 -- 7:22PM, acey deucy wrote:

Dont make me laugh ffs Constitution Hill would eat them alive if he is on song.

If he's there you mean

Whether he would eat them alive is beside the point, the anticipation going into the race would be incredible.

I think Nicky has learned his lesson,took a while mind but i expect him to be a wee bit more aggressive with his Horses in the future.

Like my old boss Major Hern used to say....Strike While The Iron Is Hot.

If they are fit, run them.  And if the going doesn;t suit to win you can still surely place to get a return.  This cotton wool stuff is fallible as proved this last fortnight.
Nicky's old man was something wasn't he?  I had no idea of his contribution to Racing and also to the great Monty.

His 3 major withdrawals must show up at Punchestown if they are fit. Otherwise, I'd advise their owners a change of scenery for them.

I firmly believe Lossiemouth should have run in the Champion Hurdle when CH was ruled out. I think this was the only mistake of Mr Mullins in this renewal.

Hardly a mistake Imp when he Won the Race.

I think that was the main point too acey.  But it would have been a great sight the two of them at it up the hill.

Yes fair enough it would have been good.

I'd have been furious if I was the owner; next year she may face CH and Ballyburn and State Man. Maybe mr Mullins will earmark Ballyburn over fences. I'm surprised Ricci did not put his foot down being the principal patron at Closutton; I remember Mr Wylie's charges played 2nd fiddle regularly to Ricci's. I think this was one of the reasons Gigginstown removed their charges too.

duffy 15 Mar 24 18:18 
Just imagine

Constitution Hill v State Man v Lossiemouth v Sir Gino v Ballyburn

That would revive the ailing race wouldn't it




I can't imagine it at all these days.

There was word that he was using Willie again but hearsay probably.

I do not think GDS will show up at Punchestown after last season; Gerri may, and hopefully duel with Shishkin and Fastorslow.

I've been watching Cheltenham for years and used to go, it depends what your looking for. The weathers been mainly awful from start to finish. Bookies will have taken a bashing, with alot of the good things at the start of the week winning, if your a favourite backer, I like to get it to some outsiders, but found very little that got me interested. So I backed a fair few favourites and most of them won and I'm happy with that.

Fans of the sport will always be excited by the raw talent and potential of the likes of Ballyburn. But the dilution of the meeting in moving to 4 days is old ground but the meeting urgently needs trimmed to three days with the mid range championship races, Albert Bartlett and Cross Country race. Keep the Ballymore / Sun Alliance with to encourage genuine competition. Kevin Blake had it spot on in the opening show piece this morning

Ticket sales this year would indicate that the paying public are voting with their feet but honestly does anyone really think the decision makers will care?

In response to the OP

Its the first year I would say that I genuinely had minimal interest. I became interested in racing with the 2005 Champion Hurdle and it kept me interested with decent competitive racing.

1. The dilution of races has destroyed any competitiveness. Useless cowardly trainers and owners take the easy route and both races in each division end up suffering.

2. The 2008 economic downturn had a massive negative effect on the sport especially NH where smaller trainers/owners couldn't survive and a massive consolidation of talent began to occur towards the bigger trainers.

3. Mullins domination is killing off interest as is O'Briens on the flat to a lesser extent.

4. Not a popular opinion but the racing media now are as dull as dish water. At least the C4 crowd had a bit of character. I'd take Derek Thompson over McCoy or Walsh ffs.

It really struck me today as a group I know usually do a sweep in the some of the races at Cheltenham and this year didn't bother.....why?

Not enough runners

Neither Mullins nor O Brien's domination is killing off my interest.  It is a privilege to witness two training genius's going about their winning ways.  They are phenomenons of the modern age.

Betting-wise, I finished in front so this is not pocket talking but negative factors this year included:-

awful weather
awful going
Henderson's virus
Nicholls' poor form
the first two days were anti-climactic (Ballyburn did what was expected)
poor punditry
poor lead-up (preview circuit; Willie Mullins bingo; late release of handicap weights)

The last is odd because objectively it is the same every year but seemed worse this time round.

The drop in attendance is down to cost, not the actual racing no matter how much some people would like it to be.

I feel like it's just Cheltenham festival saturation personally. That we've seen the peak of Cheltenham fever/fervour. As every year comes and goes it now feels like we've seen it all before. This is inevitable as everything in life has a life cycle, it doesn't stay exactly the same as time passes. And it's not much to do with Mullins' dominance, that's just predominately coincidental.

i dont mind who wins,its the distances uk horses whose trainers think are possible worldies are beaten ,you cant get your head around
as no top irish novices come to uk before chelt and no uknovices run in ire the ratings/form are completely worthless as are form of mullins horses pre xmas, uk trainers have an excuse they dont no how good their horses areand vastly over rated,but despite his winners mullins has loads of fancied horses beaten miles,pulled up in novices and bumpers, like the jockey championship its basically a numbers game buy enough/throw enough **** and enough sticks to forget about those beaten miles/pulled up

Yes of course. And shoulda woulda coulda. If Hendo hadn't been blighted one could easily have seen UK horses win CH, CC and the Triumph. But as I wrote I allude to, this is more about having seen the high watermark for the popularity of the CF as an entity. Constitution Hill's absence was a big loss to be fair.

Cheltenham for me seemed flat at points. There were some good exciting finishes,which was a plus for me.

From a British racing point of view: Ireland race for the progression of the horse. British Racing run for Bookmaker Profits (they run the show in the UK) When this happens you get one outcome, Irish domination. Mullins is a remarkable trainer and the fitness of his horses astounds me. The tank seems to have more in it after the line.

Personally, I didn't feel the Cheltenham magic this year. Most people don't have much money to spend, and you can tell by how they look and act. I see this in society on the trains, buses in the supermarket.

I would go to 3 days myself, and make it £30 entry for everyone.

does the fitness of the mullins fancied horses in novices,bumpers that are tailed off,pulled up astound you,preseumably logic would say  if those horses were trained by uk trainers they,d be getting hammered in low grade handicaps ?

Mar 16, 2024 -- 10:44AM, 1st time poster wrote:

does the fitness of the mullins fancied horses in novices,bumpers that are tailed off,pulled up astound you,preseumably logic would say

Not all of his runners, for obvious reasons. Some horses will run a different race each time, horse racing is not an exact science, plenty of luck involved too. In general, “most” of his horses looked fit to me.

I want to watch the best horses run against each other, back to 3 days and do away with some races

stable jock in novices alone picked 3 favs  that were either tailed off,or pulled up,presumably they got the best training,treatment from mullins

Mar 16, 2024 -- 10:51AM, 1st time poster wrote:

stable jock in novices alone picked 3 favs

You can train horses to peak fitness. But on the day for whatever reason they do not perform. And it remains a mystery as to why some horses don't perform as expected. Some horses get out on the wrong side of their stable.!

Didn’t see much of a problem with the meeting from a racing and betting perspective.
Also the whole season had been run on very soft ground so I was pleased it was the same at the festival.

Obviously Constitution Hill was a huge miss and the Champion Chase was a damp squib even before El Fabiolo messed up.

Two out of three of the novice hurdles were very competitive and the Gallagher has a history of short price favourites winning even before the introduction of the Albert Bartlett led to smaller fields  - Istabraq, French Holly, Barton, Monsignor, Samcro, Envoi Allen etc.

The Mullins domination is just one of those things - plenty of expensive horses elsewhere so it’s not just that he is buying all the best prospects. Up to the others to up their game.

yep, IE Gid Park, Jukebox yesterday, head scratcher

if any other top uk trainer/jock combo had trained.ridden
tullyhill
readin tommy wrong
storm heart 
failce vega
they,d be throwing themselves of the top of stand
just a numbers game for mullins no more idea of whats going to win than the rest of us

and if you think the bad jump was coming and he never went a yd as mullins said,  you could throw in el fab
imagine pumpkin/cobbden,hendo/nico training
EL FAB
TULLYHILL
STORM HEART
readin tommy wrong
and half a dozen in the bumper

I backed Jukebox Jury, too. Anyone ever keep watching the replay back? Wondering how it got caught up the hill?

Stellar Story over jumped the last flight too

I started losing interest in Cheltenhan when it went from 3 to 4 days

Mar 16, 2024 -- 10:58AM, Deptford wrote:

yep, IE Gid Park, Jukebox yesterday, head scratcher

I wouldn't give up on Gidleigh Park yet. Watching the replay again last night I think he was a bit flat footed and got a bit far back when they quickened. While the horse ran on up the straight Burke was far from hard on him and would've been even closer but for the last hurdle mistake.

Was there any injuries to horses over the four days?

paddy bren said last week on lucky and lord snooty agreed that cobbden and bowen had got the english jocks to calm down race more slowly ,like according to paddy they do in ire,if their going slow in ire how come the fancied horsesare a distance in front of the rages after half a mile and how come the supposed faster pace.better ground [ usually ] doesnt catch them out
wheres the evidence of day to day racing in uk been run at far to faster pace, cobbden is help setting that pace on 99% of pumpkins novice hurdler,s,
doesnt make any sense to me

Thought it was a fairly routine Cheltenham comparable with most recent years, Mullins dominates, irish get most winners and generally best horses won best races with the odd faller to stop a route. Us older people always look back with rose tinted spectacles to say was better in the old days but personally think was decent, a shame Constitution Hill didn't defend his crown though.

Mar 16, 2024 -- 12:56PM, 1st time poster wrote:

paddy bren said last week on lucky and lord snooty agreed that cobbden and bowen had got the english jocks to calm down race more slowly ,like according to paddy they do in ire,if their going slow in ire how come the fancied horsesare a distance in front of the rages after half a mile and how come the supposed faster pace.better ground [ usually ] doesnt catch them outwheres the evidence of day to day racing in uk been run at far to faster pace, cobbden is help setting that pace on 99% of pumpkins novice hurdler,s,doesnt make any sense to me

Becoming a bit of an old wives tales over the years that they race slower in Ireland. Certainly the jockeys try to make sure they keep a bit for the end, but they don't crawl around.

I'm with you Deptford.  The move to four days was a mistake.  It is meant to be a festival of excellence not over-entered handicaps.
They do a brilliant job staging it though I;ll give then that.  The prep. work must be enormous and we never even think of how much goes into sorting the track and surface out afterwards etc:  Full marks to the ground-staff for me.

Gold Cup day was sold out as usual yet it is day with the most expensive tickets. Tuesday attendances still holding up quite well this year despite the weather and the absence of the sport's biggest star. Most racing fans would say that the Tuesday card has the best races overall and the Friday card has the best race. People have clearly stopped going on Thursday and especially Wednesday though. To me that is consistent with the quality of the races on those cards. At least this means 5 days is out of the question and really a return to 3 days should be a consideration (but won't be).

Tuesday
2019 67,934
2020 60,664
2022 68,567
2023 60,321
2024 60,181

Wednesday
2019 59,209
2020 56,943
2022 64,431
2023 50,387
2024 46,771

Thursday
2019 67,821
2020 65,218
2022 73,754
2023 61,451
2024 53,918

Down hill since covid when they just let everyone in,after clerk of course left.

Course better this time,but Mullins odds on shots,cancelled xcountry will again damage product.

Mares have their own races,which is ok,like women’s football,but they can still enter male races,so that’s a quirk.

Thursday was the best day this year,which used to be the worst day.

Too many 7 runner race grade 1s.

Can’t stop Mullins,fair play,but 7 runners compounds the issue.

Tweak prize money to encourage more entries for a place.

Hunter chase even low entries.

The x country is a race for horses who have to adjust to different conditions to win,hurdles,fences,banks etc..

So why not run it has a 3m6f hurdle race this year to at least put the race on,no deaths over hurdles,there wouldn’t of been many non runners

LoyalHoncho -- The move to four days was a mistake.  It is meant to be a festival of excellence not over-entered handicaps.

Sometimes we over-romanticise the three-day Festival, which in truth contained as much dross as the present, 4-day version. Amateur races and big-field handicaps have always been part of Cheltenham alongside the championship races.

Yes, thy have always been there as padding, but not so many.

I can't understand those of you who would prefer 3 days. Any one of the 4 days this year would be better than the average weekend fayre and I enjoyed Cheltenham this year as I have previously, over all too soon for me.

Much prefer now the other Cheltenham meetings earlier in season. Still can see some great horses but a bit more variety than the Mullins fest and if you attend more fun and less full of plebs

No one size fits all. Just enjoy it accordingly eg choose which races and days to attend to minimise/maximise expenses. Or watch it in the comfort of one's home.

Personally I'd just have a 3-day Cheltenham with one race for the Mares, one for the Amateur riders and one handicap race each for hurdle and chase.

The Grade 1's confine to only the Champion Hurdle, Champion Chase and the Gold Cup. The others eg JLT, RSA, Supreme, Arkle, Neptune, AB, Mares, etc, all Grade 2.

Less is more, dross is merely a distraction.

I'd stick with 4 days but make it 6 good races a day

instead of 9 hcaps & 19 non-hcaps make it 12 hcaps & 12 non-hcaps

hcaps: the existing 9 plus the 2 mares grade 1s convert to limited hcaps & the x-country converts to a hcap
non-hcaps: NH chase reverts to 4 miles & has a ratings ceiling
ryanair chase, the 2 mid-distance novice hurdles & the mares novice hurdle all go

I would also run it thurs,fri,sat,sun & 50-75 pound entry per day is PLENTY imo

and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE water less when its dry

ceo just said on lucky regards number of days etc,no 1 public feedback is no matter number of days 3,4 or 5they want 7 races a day

It will never go back to 3 days.

They just need to get rid of the mid distance and most of the mare races so you don't have the best horses in their discipline being able to avoid each other.

The handicaps are at least competitive large fields.

The mares races are designed to develop high-quality breeding mares of NH horses, and it's now worked with the likes of Facile Vega and Mystical Power - that's exactly what the plan was when the race was introduced all those years ago. The mares hurdle and the mares chase aren't going anywhere.

Run them at another meeting then rather have them dilute Championship races.

That would miss the point - they are the championship races for mares.

The mares' races are part of Cheltenham but there might be a case for stopping repeated wins in the Mares Hurdle. We want Lossiemouth to step up and run in the Champion Hurdle next year like Honeysuckle, not farming this race like Quevega. Quite how you'd enforce that is not clear. Treat it like a novice race perhaps?

Mar 17, 2024 -- 12:07PM, 1st time poster wrote:

ceo just said on lucky regards number of days etc,no 1 public feedback is no matter number of days 3,4 or 5they want 7 races a day

I don't believe him

that's management speak for there will be no meaningful change

he was basically saying if you get rid of a race think what race your putting in its place as public want 7 races cards at chelt

How are the mares races producing high quality breeding mares of NH horses?
Too early to tell, but Quevaga apart, have the other winners of the mares or mares novices produced a winner between them> Whiteoak, Glens Melody, Limini, Lets Dance, Vroum Vroum Mag, Laurina.

More like having a mares series meant that the price of fillies would be raised at the sales giving the breeders a chance of getting a return when they had a filly foal.

They should move the mares and lesser races to a different meeting away from march, this will give them the opportunity to put on an extra day.

Ramruma, one approach would be to take away the mares 7 lb allowance in the championship races. I'm not sure why they should get one when there are dedicated mares races they could run in if connections wish. That would likely push the mares towards the mares-only races, rather than the open races, though.

Your idea of treating it like a novice race would be really interesting - what would the exclusion criteria be? Not open to a mare that has won that race before? Or won a Grade 1 mares race? Or won a Grade 1 race?

Also, although I am a strong supporter of the mares hurdle and chase, I do not think them mares novice hurdle is necessary. There is no reason at that stage why those horses couldn't run in the Supreme/Baring Bingham/Triumph.

Cacique - Mystical Power is by Annie Power. It was always a long-term project, because it would take that long to improve the quality of the best mares. It's starting to come to fruition now. Judge it in another 10 years.

what would the exclusion criteria be? Not open to a mare that has won that race before? Or won a Grade 1 mares race? Or won a Grade 1 race?

penalty structure stron

but limited hcap would be my choice

I forgot to include The Stayers as a Grade 1. I'd like to see the recognition bestowed on the top of that category to encourage the youngsters coming along.

crashing fall & race management to let Quevaga win aside ...., but she was second in the stayers first before falling in the mares. So it didn't take a mares series for Annie Power to run at the festival. And her pedigree is a good flat german pedigree.

I struggle to remember a top-class nh racemare that was out of a really good racemare and produced a really good racemare.

I have no great issues with the current set up but if change is deemed necessary then my thoughts are as follows.

The novice G1 races and championship races are all fine imo. The Albert Bartlett, Turners and especially the Ryanair have been a good initiative imo even if they do make antepost betting a minefield.

While I despise the Pertemps the fact is having 2m, 2.5m and 3m handicaps for for hurdles and chasers is fine and is good for betting turnover.
The Boodles and Martin Pipe are unnecessary and could be run at a different time / track.

I’m agnostic about the three Mares races - again maybe they could be run at another time / course.

I love the Foxhunters but have zero interest in the National Hunt or Kim Muir chases.
They have a dedicated hunter chase card in April and maybe those amateur races could be moved to that.

The cross country definitely needs to be some sort of handicap.

Yes, I'd agree with a lot of that Uncle.

The rule changes have gutted the NH Chase - although it's a venerable race, it might have had its day. I would scrap the XC, because there isn't enough of a race program to support it properly, and there are frequent course issues. I would make the Pertemps a normal, open handicap - the qualifying series licences cheating. I'd scrap the Kim Muir and Martin Pipe, which are consolation races for the Ultima and Coral Cup. I would keep the Hunter as the sole amateur race. You could almost make a 3-day Festival out of what's left

They just need to get rid of the mid distance and most of the mare races so you don't have the best horses in their discipline being able to avoid each other.

With you on this Shrewd.