Wadacre Gomez sp

Yes I fully understand that phs but hills were showing 4/1 as they came out of the stalls yet returns 100/30

What I can’t understand form is we now have an industry sp so if it’s 4/1 as they set of how’s it returned 100/30 ?

I know that Freddie I have never mentioned on course shows

Thanks ramruma for posting the sprc rules it explains it but what a farce.

Yes the optics are bad but that is because you are misinterpreting what has happened. It is bad because probably most punters think the same way and become disillusioned.

The 4/1 was not "the show". The 4/1 was Hills' last price. This 4/1 was then mashed together with Ladbrokes, BetFred and the others to produce the SP of 100/30.

But most punters still think of the old days when the betting shops relayed show prices from the ring, and SP prices also came from the ring, so in most cases the last show would indeed match the SP.

All this changed during the Covid lockdowns when no-one (or hardly anyone) could go racing and bet on-course, and was not changed back when normal racing and betting resumed. Betting shop punters who have not kept up with the changes will believe they are being ripped off.

May I add around 200 days a year and still use betting shops

There was an instance about 3 weeks or so back, I think at Wolverhampton, where there was a late withdrawal, no time to reform the market, and one of the horses was given as second fav on the SPs scrolling along the screen once the race was underway, had then been cut into joint-favourite. As it happened, it didn't win, but I nearly started a thread about it.

Can't remember the horse but it will come back to me.

Are there any high street chains not on the internet? They must represent at least 1.5 per cent of the market, and also have an automated feed *to* the PA in order to send their prices. They also need a trading department to set their own prices. Realistically they will be on the web and not a 2-shop independent with sawdust on the floor.

I would have thought this would be an interesting topic for one of the racing channels or the Racing Post to cover with a behind-the-scenes view of a day's racing. Maybe they've done it and I missed it.

The sample size is at least three and there is no maximum. How big it is in practice for any given race is not clear.

I should be clear that I am not an insider. I'm just reading from the SPRC website at:-
http://www.thesprc.org/

This is an extract from that site. Note the item in bold would apply to Ladbrokes and Corals (and Sky) which are owned by Entain but if they price races independently of each other, which is easily possible, they can provide separate inputs; otherwise, no.

Price Source Provider – Qualifying Criteria
Bookmakers considered for inclusion in the SP sample must fulfil the below criteria:

Prices must be available to customers in Great Britain.

Prices must be offered with each-way terms.

Any participating bookmaker must undertake to provide a robust connection to the Press Association’s (PA) API to facilitate
data delivery.

Each bookmaker must provide an independently priced feed and not recycle the PA’s live show price.

Where more than one participating bookmaker is in the same ownership group a maximum of one feed per group will be considered, unless there is compelling evidence prices are independently controlled and competing.

Any price source provider must reasonably be expected to constitute a minimum of 1.5% of the total betting market for British horse racing. The SPRC will assess whether any new price source meets the minimum criteria using publicly available data.

The Hills punter can take Hills' pre-race price or take SP. That was always the case, and SP always included prices from firms other than Hills although it used to be on-course ring books.

The difference inside the Hills shop is the pre-race shows are now from Hills themselves, and not from the sample that will make up the SP. In the old days, Hills would use the industry standard pre-race shows. In a smaller chain's shops, punters may well be offered the PA's feed pre-race prices that will be used for the SP.

Thanks for the effort ramruma what a mess it can only chase punters away


Regarding the chair he isn’t a man of his word and would not be independent no wonder the whole game is in trouble

Hills were possibly a stand out price with the High St bookies. Punters sat in Laddies May have been seeing 10/3 on their screens just before the off. The SP is the only universal price.

s.kenbo is right. GLASGOWCALLING has missed the point again but in doing so highlights a greater truth. It *looks* crooked to the ordinary betting shop punters who do not grasp the difference between a Hills-only show and the consolidated feed and SP.

Exactly my point Swifty, but more succinctly put.

Ramruna, I assumed those 'other' prices weren't visible in the shops any more, so you take the Hills or whoever's price or leave it to chance which is no doubt what the vast majority of punters do.

So the consolidated feed is an on-going, updated price right up to SP? But in nearly all chains you won't be able to see it?

swiftynifty: That is what I understand to be the case. The big chains will show their own prices, presumably starting from their traders' tissues but then updated from customers' bets over the internet, whereas smaller chains and television stations can show the live PA feed which is compiled in the same way as SP.

Before this system of offcourse-based SPs, the PA shows would be used everywhere and be based on prices PA reporters saw in the ring, which is where SPs came from. Then and now, therefore, the PA show should be close to final SPs.

In theory it's swings and roundabouts, most punters are not price sensitive, so win some, lose some.

It's OK saying that but without actually independently checking  the prices offered across all the known firms in the sample on a few random races on a regular basis   you wouldn't really know how honest  and accurate the system is at producing an honest SP.

Problem is the hight street firms offer better prices on Internet but you would think this would produce the occasional higher returned SP  than what is actually being offered in shop, can't say I have seen one for years that has, like say even a 7/4  returned 2/1.Doesnt happen.

Not saying it isn't honest and without knowing how shop v high street from same firm is worked I wouldn't like to say.

Internet offering higher prices and shop is actuall perhaps? 

In shop is worstest imvho, and not long ago the prices on screens  are not realistic  are not available, can not be taken, and prices on terminal were diff. Stopped trying to take a price on occasional times I was in shop, the annoying thing is everywhere on Internet is  generally bigger, but there is no way of knowing what is correct price other than ON HERE.