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10 Feb 24
20:52
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Date Joined:
09 Mar 03
Hi, I'm here reading all your posts most days, but don't post too often. I therefore feel a bit cheeky asking for some help with an old racing question, but I feel confident one of you nicer ones of a certain vintage will be able to help!
My family are staying at my stepfather's this weekend and I was telling him that I'm going to Kelso races next week.
He says he remembers being there in the sixties and joined in a massive gamble on a horse called Springbok which he thought was trained by Neville Crump. He got evens and made a few months wages! It ended up odds on, he reckons. I just love hearing stuff like this.
Is there any way to find old form, as RP only goes back to 80''s. Would love to find the date and race he is talking about. My own pathetic attempts have only turned up the horse's 3 runs in the Grand National in 62,63 and 64.
Any help is much appreciated, ta.
My family are staying at my stepfather's this weekend and I was telling him that I'm going to Kelso races next week.
He says he remembers being there in the sixties and joined in a massive gamble on a horse called Springbok which he thought was trained by Neville Crump. He got evens and made a few months wages! It ended up odds on, he reckons. I just love hearing stuff like this.
Is there any way to find old form, as RP only goes back to 80''s. Would love to find the date and race he is talking about. My own pathetic attempts have only turned up the horse's 3 runs in the Grand National in 62,63 and 64.
Any help is much appreciated, ta.
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A great old name to remember, but sorry I can't help with your query, Ged should know.
I vaguely remember Springbok winning the Hennessy, I think he had a low weight.. he seemed to run in all the big handicap chases of the times, with the likes of Knucklecracker, Mandarin, Mill House etc.. |
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Ridden by Gerry Scott twice and Pat Buckley once!
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Ged will be your man if you look in tomorrow.
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It was the 1962 Hennessy Gold Cup at Newbury. Springbok ridden by Gerry Scott beat stablemate Rough Tweed by a head. It was gambled down to 15/2.
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Gerry Scott had the pick of the two and picked the right one. Neville Crump trained both.
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Thanks guys, great old names indeed. Bit before my time, but remember them from when my Dad was alive and talked about these days. He would turn in his grave if anyone said Arkle wasn't the best ever!
Gerry Scott became a starter didn't he? |
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There was a record field with 27 runners that year in 1962.
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Yes he certainly did.
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C:\Users\tonyn\OneDrive\Pictures\Screenshots\Screenshot 2024-02-10 221041.jpg
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Springbok won twice at Kelso in 1960, the first in October at 11/4 and then again in December
at 10/11. |
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You're a star Shalimah, thank you!
How did you find this out? Are you able to reveal your sources?! I would love a pre-eighties form website, although I'd probably have to quit my job if there was one! BTW, the pic/link you tried to share had your C:/drive on it so won't work for anyone. Thanks again, this will make my stepfather's day tomorrow. I'm sure he thinks I think he was making it up, which I didn't! Cheers |
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i have a subscription to British newspaper archive, i think you can do 3 free searches without a subscription. Give it a go.
I will try and sort a photo for you tomorrow. |
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From OP, this sentence stands out: He got evens and made a few months wages!
That kind of implies he was betting a few months' wages. Good luck passing the affordability check, let alone placing a £10,000 bet at Kelso of all places. (£10,000 based on the national average salary today being £28,000, and "a few months".) |
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I can add a little more detail to the Springbok story, a horse I am sadly not familiar with.
Springbok's first run at Kelso was on Saturday October 22nd 1960 at 14:15 in the Berwickshire H’cap Chase run over 3 miles. Trained by Neville Crump and ridden by H J East the horse won at 11/4. A win at Carlisle quickly followed before Springbok returned to Kelso on Wednesday Dec 7th to take part in the 3 mile Kelso H’cap Chase, again at 14:15 hrs, for the Crump/East partnership. Carrying 10 stones 6lbs it won by 2 lengths at 10/11 to complete a 4 timer. As someone else has already pointed out, Springbok subsequently won the Hennessy in 1962, with Gerry Scott up, sandwiching wins in the race by such illustrious names as Mandarin (1961) and Mill House (1963). Exaclted company indeed. The horse was also a regular visitor to Liverpool, including 3 runs in the National. A first fence fall in 1962 did not seem to trouble the horse unduly, as it recorded 5th and 6th place finished in '63 and '64. |
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Arazi-t-G:
A free resource that you would find helpful from time to time is the Glasgow Herald. It has several shortcomings - it's not searchable; some issues are missing; some issues are jammed together and mislabelled; lesser English racecards were ignored; some periods of time were obviously anti-horseracing and carry minimal, or no cards at all, but, it's FREE, and if you know the date you want, you can browse the whole paper (provided it's not one of those that's missing). For instance, working off alun's post above, you can read an account of Springbok's run at Kelso in the issue of Monday October 24th 1960, as he was the star of the Saturday meeting 2 days earlier... https://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19601024&printsec=frontpage&hl=en On the other hand, the one you probably want, in December, isn't there, because a whole batch of Heralds for Nov and Dec '60 aren't there (maybe they were on strike). You sometimes have to be a bit canny to find what you want (particularly when, for instance, a Saturday paper has been 'run together' with the Friday paper, and the like), but if you're a Scot, that shouldn't be a problem. |
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Here's piece on the Jockeypedia site about Johnny East, who rode Springbok in both those races at Kelso...
https://sites.google.com/view/jockeye/johnny-east |
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...and finally, here's a couple more memories for your stepfather, from the report of the Kelso meeting when Springbok won at a shade of odds-on...
"After a severe overnight frost, all roads leading to Kelso were dangerous for motorists yesterday. But, fortunately, the frost had not penetrated the ground and trainers were pleasantly surprised to find that racing was possible. ... One of the earliest arrivals on the course was the local veterinary surgeon, Mr Alec Tully, who recalled riding over the course in 1887. Mr Tully, who still has a large veterinary practice, is 87". |
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Racehorse Trainer Nevile Crump With Merryman I( (right) And Springbok Two Of His Horses Entered For This Year's Grand National.
1962? [ This image is no longer available. ] |
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^^^
It was the 1962 GN Springbok fell at the first -100/8 ridden by Pat buckley Merryman 11 finished 13th -20/1 ridden by David Dick |
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I don't know if it can be relied upon, but it looks like Springbok was gelded as an 8yo, in between his first National run, and his win in the Hennessy.
In the list of National runners in 1962, he's the only entire horse in the field - all the others are geldings and mares, but for his Hennessy win, the results show him as a gelding. That's not unreasonable, as he was by Derby winner April The Fifth, so they could have held hopes of standing him as a stallion. !938 Grand National winner Battleship was entire and subsquently sired a few, and 1947 Gold Cup winner Fortina subsequently sired Fortria, just about the best chaser in Ireland and Britain in the early 60s. Springbok was owned by Hugh Joicey (otherwise Lord, or Baron Joicey). His best horse was the mare Bramble Tudor, who was fancied for the 1955 Gold Cup, but was coughing beforehand, and ran disappointingly. She won an Arkle Chase (then Cotswold), and a Great Yorkshire. She also won 2 Wetherby Chases, and in one of them beat Kerstin, giving her 13lb. Kerstin won a Gold Cup with no mares allowance. Joicey's family own a lot of land in the Ford/Etal area on the Scottish border. Hugh Joicey died in 1966. His horses were shared between Stewart Wight (who trained Bramble Tudor) and Neville Crump. Wight died in 1963, and was one of Scotland's most successful NH trainers. |
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Merryman II was almost Scotland's first Grand National winner. He was owned by Winifred Wallace, who rode him in points and hunted him. She ran him in the Buccleuch Hunter Chase at Kelso, and he won by a distance. Neville Crump was there, and was impressed by what he saw and approached the owner with an offer to train him. Trained by Crump, he then won the Foxhunters at Aintree in 1959, the Grand National in 1960 (by 15 lengths) and was 2nd in it in 1961 giving the winner 25 lb. After 1961, the Aintree fences were made less upright by about 10 degrees, a change that Merryman didn't need.
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leif,
In that photo you put up, I would say that Merryman II is on the left, and Springbok is on the right.. from memory of those two. |
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Incidentally, 15 horses were reputedly doped in the 1961 Grand National, and I think it's known who was thought responsible.
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Can't add much to Kelso memories as Ged has covered this as usual in his excellent posts. I've only been to Kelso once and that was in the seventies. I was having a bad day until either the last or second last race, when a grey horse of Neville Crumps (can't remember name) got me out a hole.
As Ged has said, Crump was one of a good few NH trainers at that time. In Scotland I would add Ken Oliver/Harry Bell/Bobby Fairbairn/Craig Brown/Wilf Crawford/John Barclay and several others. Later on Len Lungo/Tom Bell/John Wilson/Keith Dalgliesh etc. |
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you could well be right Smoky -I admit to copy and pasting the text that accompanied the photo.
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Yes, Merryman had a white blaze.
There's film of the whole 1961 Grand National on the web (just google it), with Merryman hitting the front before Bechers 2nd time, and staying there until after the 2nd last. He battled on to be 2nd, but the weight concession was too much. I watched this race live when I was 7, and hadn't seen it since. The only thing I remembered, apart from Nicolaus Silver winning, was Fresh Winds being clear in front. He looked a bit like Crisp when about 25 clear crossing the Melling Road first time, but was soon getting tired, and fell 3 fences before Bechers just as they caught him. Merryman also won the Scottish Grand National in 1959 (at Bogside) when still considered a hunter, even though then professionally-trained by Crump. His rider Gerry Scott got hit in the eye by a stone before the first fence, and couldn't see anything until after the 3rd, but the horse knew what to do. He won 15 lengths at 100/8. |
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Springbok was owned and trained by Toby Balding (who would have been 23 at the time) when winning a 2m novice chase at Plumpton in December 1959, so must have been sold to go north to Joicey/Crump not long after that.
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Ged- Sorry to be a pest again did Rough Tweed win A Whitbread.
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Never a pest, Tommy. No he didn't. I think he ran in the one Arkle won. I'll look later. Tea time now.
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Ged
 enjoy your tea. Thanks. |
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On Wednesday, December 7, 1960, Springbok (H. J. East) won the Kelso Handicap Chase by two lengths from Royal Robert (M.Batchelor) and Green Drill (G.Milburn). The only other runner was Festive Bough (B. Wilkinson). Springbok started the 10-11 favourite. This was Springbok’s fourth consecutive win and its second over the course. Jockeypedia has racing results going back to the early 1700s so if anyone ever wants to check something out, get in touch either on this forum or by email at Jockeypedia2021@gmail.com
George Wheeler |
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That is quite an offer George, prepare for a busy 2024.
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1961 national,thanks Ged just watched it,probably first race I ever watched,my Grandma put me an imaginary 6d ew on Nicholas Silver (I was 6) and became the first horse I really took an interest in and one of the first times I was taken racing saw him win the Great Yorkshire chase at Doncaster beating I think another one of Crumps Cocky Consort. Re Rough Tweed ,pretty sure he was owned by Colonel Green who owned an engineering foundry at Wakefield,think his proper name was Simon Lycett- Green,my grandad did business with him and I always remember if he had a runner my Grandad would go and ask him if he fancied it,think he was in the army with Crump like several of his owners.
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Hi guys, just home after an enjoyable weekend- made even better by some absolute stars on this forum. I can't thank you enough for all this info, it's almost been like having my old man back alive and telling these stories. My stepfather is great, but not a real racing man like my dad was. Anyway, you've blown me away, so thank you so much.
It made my stepfather's weekend hearing all this info, although I still couldn't get the actual size of his bet out of him! My dad obviously got me into racing, Carlisle was our regular haunt, closely followed by Ayr, Hexham and Musselburgh (Edinburgh as it was back then). Had my first bet at age of 5 on Zongalero, in Rubstic's GN (I know - Scots kid didn't bet the Scottish horse!). Loved this game for over 45 years now and until this post, I'd forgotten just how much I missed the reminiscing with my Dad. I'm passing the torch onto my boy now and trying to visit as many courses with him as possible before my time's up. Covid buggered it up but getting back on track now and Kelso on Friday is the next one to tick off. I've only done around 20 myself and me and the boy have only 12 together so we need to get moving! Sorry for wittering on, but your kindness and knowledge has opened something magical back up in me so it's your own fault! Thanks again you wonderful people  |
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Arazi-t-G - glad you enjoyed your weekend. Hope you get some reasonable weather for Kelso.
ribero - yes Cocky Consort was 2nd to Nicolaus Silver in the Great Yorkshire, with Springbok a short head back in 3rd. Merryman landed on top of a fence and came to a stop having been going easily at the time, but that finished him. King's Nephew fell 4 out when going well. Cocky Consort made the running until the last. He'd made the running for 3 miles in the 1962 Gold Cup. Yes it was Simon Lycett-Green (5th Baronet, and a Lieutenant-Colonel) who owned Rough Tweed. Seems to have been a good guy. Died in 2003 aged 91. Even Melody (won 32 races, including the Mackeson), and Canton (Scottish National) were 2 others he had with Crump. Here's some film of the 1965 Whitbread in which Rough Tweed finishes 4th to Arkle. He was in a close 3rd when making a horrible mess of 4 out, and had previously been awkward at the water. Arkle was giving 3 stone to Rough Tweed (who was set to carry 11-7 in the Grand National that year, but didn't run). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJlzz4TluVk As said earlier, Rough Tweed was beaten a head by stable companion Springbok in the 1962 Hennessy. Prior to that, he'd only once gone further than 2.5 miles (he was 2nd in the 2 mile novice chase at Cheltenham in 1961, and fell in the Grand Annual in 1962), and on that occasion he'd fallen, so he was considered a doubtful stayer. David Nicholson rode him, and probably took it up a bit too soon. He was 2 lengths clear at the last. He ran in the Gold Cup in 1963, but jumped into the water at the water jump, and that finished his chance, not that he'd had have got near Mill House anyway (though the Times racing correspondent had tipped him to win). He had run just 5 days before the Gold Cup, probably in a fairly desperate attempt to get him fit - this was the year when racing was off for practically all of January and February in a bad winter). Rough Tweed also ran in the Whitbread of 1963, with top weight of 11-5 (bottom weight 9-7), but was unplaced in a field of 32 behind his stable companion Hoodwinked. |
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Rough Tweed was by Tartan out of Rippling Wave, so well named.
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Another couple of notable wins in Rough Tweed's career were at Manchester's Easter meeting. He won the Champion Novice Chase (2m) in 1961 the month after running 2nd in the Cotswold (Arkle), and in 1963 he won the Lancashire Chase over 3.5 miles on Easter Monday. The latter was a race that existed for many years as the feature of Manchester's end-of-season jumps meeting, often run on fast ground, and it now exists (kind of) as the Betfair Chase - its legacy was passed to Haydock when Manchester closed, but Haydock already had their feature chases, didn't have a meeting at the corresponding time of year, so mothballed it as a race until Betfair came along with their sponsorship in 2005.
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Thanks Ged,amazing how we can remember races from way back sometimes,had a feeling Merryman might have been in the race.,and thanks for the Colonel Green stuff,I called him Colonel because thats how my Grandad always referred to hom,he'd say come on I'll go and find Colonel Green and see if he fancies it
Yes remember Even Melody although never realised he won 32 races,think the colours were something like red and white hoops with some Green obviously in there and maybe dark blue sleeves? Thanks again just going to have a ride up to Catterick for a few races so will catch up later. |
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Even Melody was winning at the age of 15.
won the 1977 mackeson GC - Uncle Bing was second. |