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04 Feb 24
18:17
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10 Jul 05
Who is better,who was,is, more dominant.
Dickenson cut short his career,but pound for pound in their era who was more dominant.
Whatever stat you can produce for Willie,
First 5 royal flush in gold cup,takes some beating.
Dickenson cut short his career,but pound for pound in their era who was more dominant.
Whatever stat you can produce for Willie,
First 5 royal flush in gold cup,takes some beating.
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I loved Dickenson But Mullins all Day long and twice on Sundays.
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I think the comparison is a little unfair as Dickinson would have had far fewer horses. I am sure the percentages would be similar.
You could go back to the 70's when Winter had the likes of Bula, Lanzarote, Pendil, Killiney and Crisp from a string of about 50. |
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Well 5 times on Sunday based on today,
But Dickenson never had the chance on Sunday,has their was no racing. I bet Mullins couldn’t invent a racing surface,that has no kickback and is kind to the horse. Remember,Dickenson was a northern trainer,which makes his achievements all the more remarkable. The likes of silver bucks,bregawn. Went off 1/10 on,carrying 12st in a hcp.not 2/5 against 3 stable mates off level weights. I could be wrong,but I think he had 14 winners on a bank holiday once, It’s all relative,and it’s about in their era ,plus Mullins is in our time.so bias skews opinions. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm mostly).
Mr Dickinson did not have exclusive deep-pocket or powerful owners and numbers far exceeding other trainers in the UK; there were many good trainers in the UK then eg Winter, Walwyn, Pitman, Nicholson,Beaumont, Fitzgerald, etc. To train the 1st 5 home in the Gold Cup (these horses were genuinely good and won many races between them) was truly outstanding. |
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Mullins all day long
 Let me say one thing for certain , when Dickinson achieved the first 5 home in the Gold Cup it was heralded as a wonderful achievement never to be repeated , if Mullins achieved the same feat today he'd be accused of over dominance and ruining the sport. How times and expectations change |
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It may seem a world away now, but the north used to be very competitive.
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A left field descision,to jack it all in,move to USA,invent a surface.
Anyone know why he did this,was his wife,family from USA, Was it just a childhood dream,a strange career move. |
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He had already had a spell on the flat as a private trainer which didn't work out.
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bregawn, wayward lad etc, names we all still remember, bet noone will recall any mullins horse in ten years time
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That's nostalgia talking elisjohn and an age thing , millions of punters by now will never have heard of the horses you mention aside from relatively few that would be into racing history as well as the obvious gambling attraction.
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Yeah he did get laughed out of Manton treated Terribly imho.
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In my opinion, M W Dickinson, but I`m biased. He had a stronger challenge in UK back then.
Mullins, great trainer unquestionably, but he has a monopoly on equine talent and very little opposition on both sides of the Irish Sea. |
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Walsh was not endeared to Galopin Des Champs earlier in the season post the horse's defeats last season and 1st race back 2024 citing the Gold Cup could have taken more out of the horse than anticipated, though not visually. But, now Walsh has likened him to Best Mate - 3x winner - I believe.
To train the 1st 5 home in the Blue Riband at Cheltenham will never be repeated in my lifetime, I firmly believe. Until just recently Mr Mullins had not trained one. |
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We all have nostalgia Hayden, but what he done is Turf history and will be read in hundreds of years time, long after Jump racing is banned, as I`m afraid it will be.
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When Willie trains the first five home in the Gold Cup and breaks all M W`s other records, I will concede. Brilliant trainer is Mr Mullins though and hard to compare different generations.
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I think Dickinson was backed by Robert Sangster on the Flat to hopefully succeed Vincent O'Brien. But, with the Sheiks, Wilderstein, Aga Khan, Abdulla, de Walden, etc, the challenges were too enormous for a new Flat trainer.
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Have to agree Jump Racing is doomed and if you cant see that you got your heed stuck up your arse....I love the game but how long has it got?
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People have been saying it's doomed for years, don't think it's going anywhere personally.
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Yes, Mr Robert Sangster and business partners bought Manton and convinced MW Dickinson to head south and run the show. Robert Sangster was a true gent and a great human being.
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Nowhere near knocking the achievement Mac it was fantastic , just making the point that if Mullins gets even the first 3 in a championship race all of a sudden it's bad for the sport because he's too dominant.
Don't think first 5 will be repeated even by Mullins , but certainly by nobody else. |
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Dickinson was a failure at Manton.
I was at the Gold Cup for the famous 5, it wasn't a strong gold cup apart from about 3 of the Dickinson runners. In fact a lot of the Gold Cups are rubbish apart from 1 or 2 Willie could easily do a first 5 if he entered 5 |
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Is willies secret the martingale.
Also heard ,he dosent school them. Even Giggs,who fell out with him,have sent him some new ones(thought they were packing in). Why don’t the other Irish trainers copy him.if it’s cos all the good ones get sent to him,why,knowing you could have a great one,but be 3rd string. He is the best,but at some point,too much,is too much. |
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Mullins could the first 10 ffs.
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Aye do even.
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Probably could, but he hasn`t.
Name another champion NH trainer who also won a Group 1 on the Flat in the Breeders Cup? Answers on a postcard please. |
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I'd disagree. Mr Mullins could not. The Gold Cup is a very different type of race to the 2-miler races.
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Harrington?
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Mr combustible,
He didn’t win it till 2019,even he couldn’t do first 5 Just about managed first 1 |
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Just watched the race again great memories but i am of that age to appreciate..
Coombs Ditch , Fifty Dollars More and Brown Chamberlain were notable also rans........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3xNOS3d-GM |
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Aiden O'Brien a champion NH trainer has won a lot more breeders cups than the weirdo Dickinson
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To get 5 horses fit enough to run in the Gold Cup and do themselves justice is an achievement, let alone finish 1-2-3-4-5. Will never be equaled again.
Dubbed ‘The Genius’ after saddling the first five home in the Cheltenham Gold Cup in 1983, former Champion National Hunt Trainer Michael W. Dickinson has many claims to fame. Following his retirement from the training ranks, for the first time, Dickinson invented and developed the Tapeta racing surface, which is now in use at Newcastle and Wolverhampton in Britain and various venues worldwide. However, even before the ‘Famous Five’ at Cheltenham, Dickinson had already written his name, possibly indelibly, into the Guinness Book of World Records. On Boxing Day, 1982, Dickinson made a deliberate attempt – as discussed with his parents, Tony and Monica, months earlier – to break the world record for the number of winners trained in a single day. In fact, during a busy Bank Holiday programme, he sent out twenty runners, or over a third of his string, from his yard in Harewood, West Yorkshire, to six different meetings across the country. The highlight of the day was a win for Wayward Lad, ridden by John Francome, in the King George VI Chase at Kempton but, all told, twelve of the Dickinson-trained horses won and just one of the twenty finished unplaced. |
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Mighty Mac . Dickenson.
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The Dickenson era imo was a golden age for national hunt racing.
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Dickinson lived on his nerves, very unstable character. Took its toll, thats why he **** off to the states
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Training first 5 wouldn't be on Willie's bucket list anyway although a fairly impossible task , he'd have the horses better planned to win more than one prestigious race as a far better alternative.
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My fav was Burrough Hill Lad. The horse ran with his head in his chest. And, I won quite a bit of dosh whilst still at college.
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Mac .remember that day,1/7.1/8
No offers on the blower,bookies refused to price them up. Think they just made up the sp. Not seen that for years.no offers. |
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Betting without the fav,before they invented betting without the fav.
Basically betting without the Dickenson horses. |