THE MATCH

Arsenal or liverpool

150,000 who wants it

Cant jump going left handed.

What a joke of a rsce.

disgraceful asking it to jump the last, was out on it's feet ...

might as well have not turned up?
fall at the last aside.. comical

Townsend no effort. Tries for 2nd prize money.only to fall

If they can't get the runners then make it a handicap.

Biggest stage in Ireland. What a fluck up

Mullins benevolent fund

Feb 4, 2024 -- 1:17PM, hulk23 wrote:

disgraceful asking it to jump the last, was out on it's feet ...

If there hadve been five or six runners there he would've pulled the horse up turning into the straight. Horse was clearly floundering from 6f out. Yet people will have idiotic comments intimating that Townend wasn't trying. Horse clearly not right.

Biggest job in Ireland. Doesn't pull up a horse not right?

Why not pu then?

Did Gaelic Warrior fall at the last  - I was busy being sick,

Not a question of not trying, but he certainly gave up more easily than if the other runner had not been in the same yard.

Feb 4, 2024 -- 1:26PM, freddiewilliams wrote:

Biggest job in Ireland. Doesn't pull up a horse not right?

I don't work in the yard, I'm just saying what I saw, which could be wrong. But idiotic to think that he wasn't trying. The horse, to me anyhow, looked to be struggling most of the way. It didn't matter what the trip was, for a horse to go out that fast would indicate something wasn't right. Townend,  I assume,  let the horse coast from the second last to try to get a big pot for second, or in case the leader fell at the last. I hope Andrew McNamaras observation before the race that the horse was sweating and on its toes put a few off backing it.

Karma all the messing about stayers if you remember oops then this weekend.

Unless there is a stellar performance later on this will be the Sunday race that will be the chat for the trade

Rich Ricci, he was beaten in the paddock, the horse just wanted to go back to the stables.

When you're an experienced and as good as PT you know when a horse doesn't feel right , so to question effort is ridiculous.

The not trying suggestion is a typical response on a betting forum in all honesty when a fav gets beat , not the first and certainly won't be the last.

He should have pulled up then, and that is all there is to it

Normal service has resumed

Not pulling up is a possible criticism for sure and not asking it to jump the last as opposed to lack of effort which is ludicrous.

Most of what you post is sensible Hayden, but that is nonsense. They will no doubt move on with no questions asked as it is the top untouchable connections and a grade 1. If that was a match in a run of the mill handicap and the one on the fav effectively sat up once passed and allowed the stablemate to coast home, they would be hauled in. 

I think people are entitled to expect more effort than that, or pull it up if unable to compete. Can't have the bread buttered both sides.

Which is why i agreed with deptford and ask questions why the horse was asked to jump the last.

Only person to answer that will be PT when interviewed no doubt and suspect horse had nothing left from a long way out.

But they don't have that luxury to sit up and carry on racing if the horse had 'nothing left from a long way out' in 2 horse race, you're on the jolly, and the other runner is from the same yard.

I'm sure what you are saying is correct, and I'm saying it's not acceptable, and people are entitled to question it.

I was not involved in the race either. But these all willie mullins affairs put the focus on integrity anyway, and that is not the way to demonstrate it. Would that have happened in March, absolutely not.

I've agreed is needs a question asking cider but i'd fully accept PT stating the horse was never going but less accepting in that case of why he was asked to jump the last.


Anyway , see what connections say later.

The not trying suggestion is a typical response on a betting forum in all honesty when a fav gets beat

Yes, but I don't agree with this part of your post above. I think this is not the usual moaning about jocks when a jolly is beat, and it's reasonable for questions to be asked.

Authorities accept explanations that the horse " didn't give me the same feel " throughout the year  , not sure why March would be any different as the horse won't know he's fav and running in a high profile grade 1.

See what connections have to say.

Agree reasonable for questions to be asked but for me it would be why the horse was asked to jump the last , unless connections tell us something we don't already guess.

good job patty wasnt on top with walsh exploring the inside  ground on chase course 40 yds wide of the fav

Would they accept 'the other horse in the race is from the yard that gives me all the grade 1s, I don't think we could have caught the winner anyway, and we have bigger fish to fry at cheltenham, so we wanted to coast home for 2nd money using as little effort as possible.

If we guess the feedback we'll be here for hours , best wait and see.

It's not the PT feedback that's being discussed. You're claiming that it is the usual moaning when a fav is beat. I'm saying it isn't, and the questions are justified on this occasion.

ok

the bottom line is PT either  doesnt or doesnt feel the urge/need to ride any different to that compared to if elliot or de broom horse was in front of him in a match,or if he thought the horse wasnt right pull it up
everyone saying nothing to see injury wise post race with the horse

A two horse race.
You are riding one who is easily passed and you can feel underneath that there is nothing there.
So why the hell would you push and shove that horse?

Just sit up and coast home for the place money.
Which he did.

The only thing I would question is the ridiculous comments on here tbh.

at what stage of the race was PT at his most vigorous would you say ?

Cider maybe 100% correct who knows we're all guessing until connections confirm one way or the other , even then the debate will continue no doubt without a satisfying outcome for everyone.

unless you think riders can sit up if they feel the horse is not going well, and not visibly ask for a lot of effort, allowing their stablemate to coast home. if that is permitted without connections being officially asked about what went on, that really is a new normal.

the stewards did ask for the horse to be vetted and it was deemed post race normal

Cider 04 Feb 24 13:51 
They will no doubt move on with no questions asked as it is the top untouchable connections and a grade 1. If that was a match in a run of the mill handicap and the one on the fav effectively sat up once passed and allowed the stablemate to coast home, they would be hauled in.

I think people are entitled to expect more effort than that, or pull it up if unable to compete. Can't have the bread buttered both sides.


That covers all aspects of the issue in a nutshell, if it ain't right why not PU, failing to do that we must deduce that the jockey is OK with the horse, so why no effort?

Yet we are going to be asked to believe that there is this vague grey area somewhere in between.

That's one thing we were in general agreement earlier duffy , in that the satisfactory explanation is for either the poor run or why ask the horse to jump the last.

Hayden • February 4, 2024 6:19 PM GMT
...why ask the horse to jump the last.

€30,000 2nd place prize money presumably?

Couldn't begin to believe it's for a paltry £30k for that owner.

In any case too professional an outfit to jump a class horse for £30k so imagining there's a different explanation.