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19 Jan 24
12:36
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Date Joined:
05 Oct 11
Little before my time but Flyingbolt aside was this a pretty weak division through that decade?
Would Dunkirk and Fortria have been the best of the rest?
Would Dunkirk and Fortria have been the best of the rest?
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Carlsberg....
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Royal Relief
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Royal Relief was early 70's.
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Must admit comparing the champion chasers from sixties to seventies is chalk and cheese to me , far too young for the sixties but the seventies was just when i was illegally visiting bookmakers and fairly hooked on the sport , remember Royal Relief pretty well as used to run against Simian who was one of my all time favourites...
1960 Fortria 8 Pat Taaffe Tom Dreaper George Ansley 1961 Fortria 9 Pat Taaffe Tom Dreaper George Ansley 1962 Piperton 8 Dave Dick Archie Thomlinson Archie Thomlinson 1963 Sandy Abbot 8 Stan Mellor George Owen Mrs J. D. McKechnie 1964 Ben Stack 7 Pat Taaffe Tom Dreaper The Duchess of Westminster 1965 Dunkirk 8 Dave Dick Peter Cazalet Bill Whitbread 1966 Flyingbolt 7 Pat Taaffe Tom Dreaper Jean Wilkinson 1967 Drinny's Double 9 Frank Nash Bob Turnell Paul Mellon 1968 Drinny's Double 10 Frank Nash Bob Turnell Paul Mellon 1969 Muir 10 Ben Hannon Tom Dreaper Waring Willis 1970 Straight Fort 7 Pat Taaffe Tom Dreaper George Ansley 1971 Crisp 8 Paul Kelleway Fred Winter Sir Chester Manifold 1972 Royal Relief 8 Bill Smith Edward Courage Edward Courage 1973 Inkslinger 6 Tommy Carberry Dan Moore Mrs M. Jenney 1974 Royal Relief 10 Bill Smith Edward Courage Edward Courage 1975 Lough Inagh 8 Sean Barker Jim Dreaper A. Martin 1976 Skymas 11 Mouse Morris Brian Lusk Matt Magee 1977 Skymas 12 Mouse Morris Brian Lusk Matt Magee 1978 Hilly Way 8 Tommy Carmody Peter McCreery J. W. Sweeney 1979 Hilly Way 9 Ted Walsh[a] Peter McCreery J. W. Sweeney |
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Ben Stack was useful. The clash between him and Irish Imp was supposed to be a curtain-raiser for the same trainers'Arkle v Mill House clash. Irish Imp was very disappointing and never regained his best form thereafter. Ben Stack( geographically near Ben Arkle btw ) I think had injury problems.
I remember Piperton and Sandy Abbot running after their wins but the latter was a fairly ordinary handicapper and I don't remember Piperton being much better. Dunkirk was outstanding for about 3 runs when they gave him his head but was killed ( or probably had a heart attack ) when trying to take on Arkle over 3 mls. Drinny's Double was no more than a useful horse in a dry period. Fortria as a two-miler was before my time but he lost in the GC to Mandarin ( just ) and Mill House ( at 11 ). If two miles was his ditance he must have been pretty good. The two mile division only really started to get much status in the 80s. |
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Reference to the eighties sounds spot on Salmon when you look at the list , looks collectively another level and winners well remembered by all...
1980 Another Dolly [b] 10 Sam Morshead Fred Rimell Ian Urquhart 1981 Drumgora 9 Frank Berry Arthur Moore D. Monahan 1982 Rathgorman 10 Kevin Whyte Michael Dickinson J. Lilley 1983 Badsworth Boy 8 Robert Earnshaw Michael Dickinson Doug Armitage 1984 Badsworth Boy 9 Robert Earnshaw Michael Dickinson Doug Armitage 1985 Badsworth Boy 10 Robert Earnshaw Monica Dickinson Doug Armitage 1986 Buck House 8 Tommy Carmody Mouse Morris Mrs Phil Purcell 1987 Pearlyman 8 Peter Scudamore John Edwards Valerie Shaw 1988 Pearlyman 9 Tom Morgan John Edwards Valerie Shaw 1989 Barnbrook Again 8 Simon Sherwood David Elsworth Mel Davies 1990 Barnbrook Again 9 Hywel Davies David Elsworth Mel Davies |
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Looks like Pat Taafe and Tom Draper were cleaning up in the 2m division as well, 5 2winners from 60-70, how long have these magic carrots been in use?
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I agree with salmon. The standouts would be Fortria, Dunkirk, and Crisp.
Royal Relief was an ever-present in the race, either winning, or going close, but in '71, Crisp beat him into 3rd by 37 lengths. Crisp had only been in the country a few months, having come from Australia, via the US where he'd run in the Colonial Cup, and he'd only made his debut in Britain 5 days earlier when winning at Wincanton with 12-7, but Fred Winter wasn't interested in winning Champion Chases, he wanted to win Gold Cups, so, as he did with nearly all his best horses, he stepped him up to 3 miles. Dunkirk was brilliant once they realised he needed to be let loose in front - he would go well clear from the off and stay clear, and was 4 from 4 that way until the fateful KG vs Arkle - it was a very sporting gesture by the owner, Colonel Whitbread, to try to stop the big bad Irish horse having things all his own way, that ended in tragedy. Fortria was the previous big bad Irish horse before Arkle - he came to England 14 times, and only on the last occasion, the 4th successive time that he carried top weight of 12-0 in the Mackeson Gold Cup, was he out of the first 2. He won the Cotswold Chase (now Arkle), 2 Champion Chases, and almost won the Gold Cup, having a great battle with Mandarin, where his stamina just gave out towards the end. He won 2 Mackeson Gold Cups, and was 2nd in another. |
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Perhaps worth noting that Tom Dreaper's horses never had problems with water jumps in England, even though they never had them in Ireland. He trained his horses to jump them by laying down bleached hessian bags with piles of gorse in front of them to imitate a water jump. These days you hear Paul Nicholls moaning about how unfair water jumps are because horses aren't trained to jump them.
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Interesting Ged, a wealth of knowledge as usual, have you thought of going on Mastermind, specialist subject horseracing from a certain era?
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Yes and I hadn't heard the water jump story before but I knew they had none in Ireland. Thanks ged.
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I'm not saying they were the best, but some of my favourites from then would be..
Buona Notte... Quelle Chance.. Scottish Memories.. Owen's Sedge.. Richard of Bordeaux who I think was a grey horse, and the Queen Mother's Double Star.. |
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Analogs duaghter was a fav of mine.
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Yes CROPSICK , front runner and a pleasure to watch.
 Forum poster of the same name was a fav of mine as well R.I.P  |
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Richard of Bordeaux WAS a grey trained by Fulke Walwyn. Front-runner who won the Mackeson when it was 2 miles.
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Stewarts Rise you have really fallen imo with that question, how long have they had those magic carrots in Ireland, maybe it was the same brand of carrots they gave Frankle eh..Pure gobshyte .
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Sorry workrider, it was meant to be tongue in cheek, more a thought of how some trainers have spells of being way above anyone else. Dickinson, Pipe, Mullins etc, wasn't a dig at the Irish.
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You are forgiven
 ARKLE just whispered in my ear... |
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The Mackeson was run over 2 miles in its first 7 years, from 1960 thru 1966. With the exception of Ben Stack, all the best 2 mile chasers of those years ran it (most of them several times), and some other class horses too. Saffron Tartan was joint top weight in 1960 - he'd run 3rd in the Champion Hurdle in 1960, won the KG chase the same year, and the Gold Cup the year after. Gold Cup winner Pas Seul carried 11-13 in '61, and even Arkle was due to run in '64, but he picked up a 4lb penalty for it, bringing his weight to 12-11, and he was taken out the week before, ruining the weights, leaving the top weight at 10-10.
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Thanks for all the replies. I am assuming that everyone considered Flyingbolt ahead of the rest?
ged, Bit of a tangent, but do you happen to know why Stalbridge Colonist skipped Cheltenham in 1966 when he must have been one of the leading novices? He couldn't have been injured as he won a race at Sandown later in the week. He had won at Cheltenham so I assume it wasn't the track. |
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dd - I think he might have been between distances at that point. He ran twice the week before Cheltenham, both over 2.5 miles, winning at Lingfield on the Thursday, and Kempton on the Saturday. He then won at Sandown, again over 2.5 miles, on the Friday of Cheltenham week. He'd begun the season running over hurdles, winning over 2m6f, and had then gone novice chasing, starting with 2 impressive wins over 2 miles, 'jumping impeccably', but then finished 3rd in the Henry VIII at Sandown over 2 miles, so I guess Cundell thought he needed stepping up in trip, but wasn't yet ready to go 3 miles, and there was no 2.5 mile option for him at Cheltenham.
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* and he hadn't won over fences at Cheltenham at that point.
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Flyingbolt didn't take much beating over hurdles
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Thanks, yes, that Cheltenham win came in a handicap hurdle.
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Salmon, he would have carried you on his back and still won if he hadn't raced a few DAYS before ..
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Bob Turnell and John Haine took him on in the Champion chase by making the pace on Flash Bulb to try to take Flyingbolt out of his comfort zone. Their real plan though was to tire him out enough to beat him in the Champion hurdle with Salmon Spray which they did. Flyingbolt was still third in the CH on bottomless ground 24 hours after winning the Champion Chase. He was as far ahead of the 2 mile chase division as Arkle was of the 3 miles. Shame they never met over 2.5. Flyingbolt might well have beaten Arkle.
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workrider
It was the DAY before…. In the Champion Chase! |
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Sorry sageform, missed your post!
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15 Mar 66 Cheltenham 2 miles Champion Chase P Taaffe 12-0 Soft 1/5f 6 1st 15 lengths
16 Mar 66 Cheltenham 2 miles Champion Hurdle P Taaffe 12-0 Soft 15/8f 17 3rd 3+3⁄4 lengths Didn't they introduce a rule to prevent a horse running twice at the festival in 2019 ? |
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Hayden, yes they did.
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Thanks Saxon
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Inkslinger. Was he the last?
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was he the last to win two at the same Festival. I think so!
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When was that blackbarn? I know early 70s but when and what races?
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In 1973, Inkslinger, an American horse, won two races at the Cheltenham Festival in the same year. This is a rare feat that is hard to duplicate 12. The horse won the Champion Chase and another race at the festival 1. The trainer of Inkslinger, Dan Moore, made a bold decision to run the horse twice in three days at the festival, which was considered implausible at the time 1. The horse’s achievement is still celebrated today, and it is considered a remarkable moment in the history of horse racing 2
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At the 1973 Festival, Inkslinger won the 2-mile Champion Chase – now known as the Queen Mother – and returned two days later to win the 2 5/8-mile Cathcart Chase.
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I think Tommy Carberry rode Inkslinger
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Tommy Carberry was the jockey of Inkslinger when it won two races at the Cheltenham Festival in 1973 12. Tommy Carberry was an Irish jockey who won the Gold Cup on L’Escargot in 1970 and 1971, and rode a total of 16 Cheltenham Festival winners 1. He was also the father of jockeys Paul, Philip, Peter, and Nina 1.
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Thanks Hayden and MrC.
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