Constitution Hill bad scope

You mean 'bad scope'!!!

Very convenient if you ask me.

boat race,fa cup semi finals,ascot gold cup and  masked singer still on the agenda according to buckley

I don;t suppose the horse thinks so.

Are you calling the Vet. a liar and a deceiver?
Are you calling the trainer a liar?

If you mean "bad scope" as  quoted rather than the probable cotton wool reality .Then yes.

Hendo was careful how he worded it

I don't know if he can sue me but I reckon Henderson is a liar.

Wonder if Jonbon will catch the bug before the weekend battle with El Fabiolo?? Or is JP not so easy to manipulate as Mr Buckley??

hendo probably hoping the weather intervenes so jonbon caqn stay in bed, every grade 1 race with a hendo turns in to a pre race 14 day will he wont he saga,RACINGS JUST ABOUT HAD ENOUGH OF THEM AND HIM

be fun with you as Post headline writer jmc

jcm

We will be calling it Constitution Nil the way things are going.

good point 1st time. If he ran the horse in top handicaps he would have far more options. And not hard to argue the opposition would be even easier with most out the handicap.

Betting aside, who here sneakily would like to see CH get beat? I am beginning to lean that way, I feel bad but can't help it

Chemical has previous, going back a long time.

See You When   -   mid 80's

Astonishing to think that the Hill wins another Champion Hurdle, almost effortlessly, oozing class and brilliance and few will praise him
"He should have run more often for the punters"!  Who didn;t buy him and don;t pay his bills and therefore have absolutely no claim on what the horse does or doesn;t do in public.
I am disappointed he doesn;t run more often because he is pure class, poetry in motion, but disappointed is the word.
I have no more right to demand that he runs more often than anyone other than the owner and trainer.  And that means anyone on here.

Horse racing has become an extremely tedious sport to follow , thank god for betting to keep it interesting and free from expiration , for the time being at least.

A good job NH didnt wait until the day before the race before telling us, imagine the reaction on here?

bad scope.2 weeks till race,normaly takes hendo,s a few days to get used to the light after getting out of the barn once a month

how does he catch anything ? nothing else gets near him.

A routine scope last week wasn't entirely satisfactory and a follow-up this morning shows the issue hasn't resolved and therefore there would not be time to get him ready for next week.
"In the meantime he will continue with light exercise, be rescoped in a fortnight and then start his preparation for March.
"Both Michael and I and all the team had very much hoped for a better result this morning so that we could run on Saturday week but in the horse's and indeed everybody's interests, it would be foolish to do so and this does not affect any future plans."


Very carefully worded

Never any intention in running the horse

beginning to become like that miss world ive been knobbing for 3 yrs but she doersnt like going out so no ones ever seen her

The disappointment here is that connections potentially have a horse of a lifetime but they don't seem bothered about that, they don't care about the prospect of whether we talk about the horse in 10, 20 years time, whatever side of the fence you sit on no-one could sensibly argue that the ability that this horse has is being maximised, particularly if you have any interest in the legacy he could leave behind.

Just imagine him running in a handicap giving away lumps of weight, everyone would love Henderson, everyone would love Buckley and the excitement and interest it would generate would go through the roof, and the horse would take it all in his stride.

this does not affect any future plans."

That one sentence shows that it is anything but carefully worded because if there was a genuine issue then you couldn't say if future plans would be affected or not, only if it is BS could you say that.

It's like the guy who phones in to work sick but proclaims that I'll be fine to come back tomoz, well how do you know if you're genuinely sick?

ffs, maybe you wanted him to run the horse and get it beat? What a forum this is.

more targets throughout the season is what most are saying tiger

champion hurdle & at most 1 of aintree or punchestown
whoopie

The point is that no fecker believes a word that comes out of his mouth but he realizes that his managing of the horse is so extreme that he has to come up with excuses not to run him rather than just saying I don't want to run him.

As much as we would love to see him in a hcap , i somehow doubt its on Nickys agenda.
Many a Champion Hurdle winner have run in hcaps & got beat including greats such as Sea Pigeon /Night Nurse/Monksfield et al.

Just think, if the horse ran and got beat or laboured to a head victory and afterwards NH comes out and says that the horse scoped dirty recently and we shouldnt have ran him and he's now a doubt for the CH?

What would the experts on this forum make of that?

they do have a horse of a lifetime, and are only really interested in one race a season.

the reality is that other races are seen as everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Hendo wouldn't do that tiger and you know it. The scope seems less than perfect at worst.

What does it matter if the horse is beat in a h'cap. Loads of horses have had their reputations enhanced.

After her education in bumpers, Dawn Run’s true talents came to the fore as she switched to hurdling. In 1983 she was the runner up in the Sun Alliance Novices Hurdle at Cheltenham, and went one better at Aintree the following month. Dawn Run showed how tough she was by chasing home Gaye Brief the following day in the Templegate Hurdle. Back on the track the following season, Dawn Run took the Christmas Hurdle at Kempton in December and then the Irish Champion Hurdle.

In March 1984 Dawn Run returned to Prestbury Park and was sent off the odds on favorite for the Champion Hurdle – she duly obliged, although the winning margin over Cima was closer than punters expected. An extraordinary hat-trick was completed the following month as Dawn Run collected the French Champion Hurdle at Autueil.

Thats some campaign, would never happen now. Why though wants changed

Not sure what they would lose cider. Risk of injury of course but we would never leave the house. Secretariat got beat 4 or 5 times and there was breeding future involved.

the ch hurdle is just the name of a race,
if he ran in 2 weeks at chelt and didnt make chelt,we,d seen him once more at chelt in either scenario,he could miss next week and then get a reral injury and you/we miss him twice
the only ? horse racing wise is will he beat state man again,hendo could answer that by targeting  the  DRF and beating him in his own backyard,which in horse racing terms would mean a little bit more than repeat CH win ,in which he wont have to do anything different to last yr

Obviously there is inherent risk in every race, especially jumps. Can even get brought down if really unlucky.

This horse is so unique, constitution wise (pardon the pun). Doesn't need to race to get fit, doesn't get fizzed up, can lead, can take a lead, doesn't need practice jumping, push button.

Sprinter Sacre was never quite the same again after he ran at Punches, and Hendo was stung by that. Like I say, they only see negatives from running as the prize money is not relevant.

they are bred and called RaceHorses so "race" is what we want them to do..Nicky is presently making sure the horse will leave very little legacy

I hope state man turns him over this year sick & tired of their bs

So no Pegasus World Cup then? Oh darn….

This horse could run 10 times a season and still win the Champion.  Yes you risk him not making the festival but what would it do for racing ? ( when it needs it )

Would not surprise if he only goes Champion Hurdle. Aintree his least impressive performance. Punchestown , im not sureNicky will be up for that either.

quite possibly geoff...and then the precedent set for just kempton & cheltenham

tiresome bs

Would have ran in FF in normal circumstances.

That's your three, and I agree nothing after Cheltenham will be that appealing to them. I should imagine they will want to run in Ireland at some point, all things being equal.

that's no excuse. If you only have 3 or 4 targets one or more is always likely to be a bog or frozen off. The big picture for racing is it's highly likely some tracks will close in the next few years. Campaigning horses like this contributes to a lack of interest in the sport. Hendo takes money from yard sponsor that in turn takes money from racing fans.

Might be good that he does lose a race and then they might run him more

Jan 15, 2024 -- 10:10AM, in hell wrote:

Might be good that he does lose a race and then they might run him more

hope so, preferably a completion also

It's not an excuse as such. They don't want to run, and there is no compulsion to run. The pontificating is just to try and keep the media attacks subdued.

Hendo always looks like he is going through the ringer every time one of his stars runs. It's more punishment than enjoyment.

That's the irony isn't it, all the connections in racing crave having something like C Hill to their name, but it's almost like a weight on their shoulders rather than something to cherish.

if CH was ruled out for season tonight,by lunchtime tomorrow 99% of people interested in racing would say,so what show goes on
CH beating stateman 8 lth   or statmen beating something else 6 lth doesnt make much difference to 99% of racegoers/punters,
CH running on undercard on boxing  day and maybe ch hurdle on tues of chelt wont add a single racegoer to the attendance this season  and perversly cost the levy/sport millions in betting turnover, time to go to bar time for 1000,s,
for a sports champion CH will have numericaly had the least amount of bets placed on it than any good horse in the past,you cant even back the distances because nico never pushes it out and 1st thing he does is apologise to punters for not pushing it out

In Hell cites Dawn Run and omits to say how that ended, pure greed cost her life.

Just retire the ornament no one gives a stuff anymore,cantering to win the CH against junk ffs

for any youngsters on the forum look up the great champion hurdler sea pigeon and trawl through his whole career . unbelievable stuff . i think he lost more races than he won in total but will stay in the memory of many long , long after the likes of constitution hill regardless of how many ' champion ' hurdles he wins .

Ebor would be a great target.

CaliagriG
Thats a ridiculous comment, horses die every day of the week to suggest Dawn Run died because of greed is stupid.


So here's another CH winner that didn't die after a campaign

Night Nurse wore the title crown as the Champion Hurdle winner, and, on both occasions, was voted National Hunt Horse of the Year. It was a richly deserved accolade. In his first season as champion, he was remarkably unbeaten in eight races, a roll of honour which included the Scottish and Welsh Champion Hurdles, not to mention the Irish Sweeps Hurdle. And, having triumphantly defended his title the following season, he went on to Aintree to finish in a dead-heat with Monksfield in the Templegate Hurdle in what is still remembered by many purists as being one of the greatest hurdle races of all time.

Think you can add his legendary stablemate Sea Pigeon(wh Windsor Knot alluded to earlier) as well In Hell. Flat or jumps carrying lumps never shied away from a gig.

Henderson and Buckley have gone from running him in everything to being scared stiff.

Surely with training techniques and feed improving horses should be able to run more unless the breed has become so weak over the years.

Jump Racing needs a Superstar and we have one right here but scared stiff to get him beat now.

You sum up the ignorance on here In Hell making comments about a situation you seem to know nothing about i.e Dawn Run. Her jockey after her prep race advised she had had too long a season and should not go for her final race, the trainer agreed but was ordered to run her by the crackpot owner, the rest is history but what else other than greed was the reason for running her? HTH

In hell.... Night Nurse went on to be a very good chaser as well,2nd to Little owl in the 81 gold cup, what a shame horses in this day and age will never be loved as much as some horses from years ago.

Does that mean those who have backed him to remain unbeaten this season but must run 3x or more will lose their money despite winning the X'mas and Champion Hurdle only? If so Hendo's sponsor will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Have to hope he doesn't "scope bad" for aintree.

The other thing that annoys me is that it's beginning to look as though we'll never see CH over fences. For most horses hurdling should just be an introduction to chasing. Obviously dual purpose flat/hurdlers may not be suited to fences but most of Hendo's are bred for jumping. They need to look at the distribution of prize money imo.

Why Aintree post Cheltenham? Punchestown surely...the backyard of Mr Mullins' charges.

Dawn Run could've died on the gallops, plenty have.

I was pointing out that horses can be campaigned more than 2 or 3 runs a season and used the campaigns of 2 horses that came into my head straight away.

Henderson has been scarred by running horses over the years, it's a shame he can't find a program book outside of England.

Constitution Hull - why he's not going over the bigger obstacles - NH

"Would he jump fences?

"I have full confidence that he would jump a fence, he would. The decision came down to simply, would he stay three and a quarter miles around Cheltenham?
"There's no point in going chasing unless we were confident we could turn him into a Gold Cup horse and the answer was no.

"We didn't think he would stay - we've got a horse here who breaks records over two miles and if you can do that, the chances of you staying are very slim.

"It might be a bit more ambitious to go chasing and try to win a Gold Cup but we simply feel he wouldn't stay - there's no point going chasing to win the Champion Chase.

Turned into a family pet,unlike other commodities

"It might be a bit more ambitious to go chasing and try to win a Gold Cup but we simply feel he wouldn't stay - there's no point going chasing to win the Champion Chase.

Crikey , that's an attitude that surely wouldn't be confirmed by many outside those in the comfort zone and almost brings the Champion Chase into disrepute.

It's a different racing world now for sure and not one for the better 

Once can certainly make an argument that the Champion Hurdle is more prestigious than the Champion Chase.

You can strontium i agree but pretty crass to mention a blue riband race in that context i'd say.

Yes, fair enough, it does sound awfully dismissive.

Seems to contradict what he did with Altior who surely have ended up odds on for the Champion Hurdle had he not gone straight over fences and aimed towards the Arkle, then Champion Chase

so running in ascot gold cup with no chances to get a break at 20 fences was just another load of **** from buckley and 4.2 miles in the boat race ?

Altior: Hendo had Buveur D'Air (3rd) and beaten by Alrior in The Supreme; Min was 2nd in the same race.

after champ,  the slow boat CITY something his best national hope that ran on saturday,hendo basically retired from long distance chasing

They're **** scared of the thing losing a race - its as simple as that.

They have created a monster and a rod for their own back

Wouldnt surprise me in the least if it wins a 2nd Champion Hurdle and they then find some reason to retire it - unbeaten, legacy and myth ensured - you heard it here first.

Did aintree last year after Cheltenham. No way would hendo entertain punchestown. Not with the amount of cotton wool around him. Doing the 3 in 2013 did serious damage to sprinter sacre.

I blame Henrietta Knight

if you have a horse like CH and i dont know what it cost but guessing a fair whack,would you not want it to win as many champion hurdles as possible? i understand the public wanting to see it race,its a racehorse,but i want to see it race when 100% fit and well.If the trainer and owner think it wont stay further then i take that.they know better.i think to compare its race ratio with champions like night nurse and sea pidgeon is a bit unfair.racing was a different game then with prize money and the cost of a good horse far different to now.

another lazey journo story.best mate had to battle for every win ,always vulnerable and able to bet at backable prices and went in a midweek afternoon meeting at the gaffs

Well let's be,fair,honest, Blue looks good on the Sky.

nineteen points 16 Jan 24 14:30 
if you have a horse like CH and i dont know what it cost but guessing a fair whack,would you not want it to win as many champion hurdles as possible?

Realizing what I had I would want to do whatever necessary to try to cement it into racing folklore in years to come and that might mean, particularly with the division as weak as it is, that winning 2,3 or 4 champion hurdles doesn't do it. The truth is that we all would like to see him running in a Betfair Hurdle giving weight than an exercise gallop in the champion hurdle, it really would be important to me that the racing public was with the horse and loved it. At the moment the racing public are becoming soured with connections and it is spilling over toward the horse.

duffy16 Jan 24 16:56Joined: 28 Mar 03

Realizing what I had I would want to do whatever necessary to try to cement it into racing folklore in years to come and that might mean, particularly with the division as weak as it is, that winning 2,3 or 4 champion hurdles doesn't do it. The truth is that we all would like to see him running in a Betfair Hurdle giving weight than an exercise gallop in the champion hurdle, it really would be important to me that the racing public was with the horse and loved it. At the moment the racing public are becoming soured with connections and it is spilling over toward the horse.




............errrrr....its not quite that bad duffy, the racing public expands beyond the miserable negative ferkers of the betfair forum.

too.

You mean the wider racing public don't think the same?? I'd be amazed if they all weren't sick to death with the whole of the will he won't he run soap opera

Agreed.

It's as tedious as Ronnie O'Sullivan threatening to retire every time he looks like losing a match , maybe they're both attention seekers.

i seen see you there win his first champion,i am fairly sure every year since all i have heard is"thats the worst champion hurdle ever".i remember championship winners at cheltenham not placed horses in the schweppes or other big prize races lugging 12st against sh1te.

I'm not sure there's anything such thing as "the wider racing public" Duffy. Who are they?

Would Constitution Hill not exert himself more in a regular piece of work than he would in a race against much inferior opposition?

And he wouldn't be expected to be 100% for every race... just 100% for the champion hurdle in March.

But i would expect him to be able to run at 80% and win easily....

dont gamble too much if you think an 80% fit CH would win any race easily never mind i big handicap

Do you honestly think they run him over 2 miles in a "regular piece of work"

I seriously hope you don't.

How do they KNOW he wouldn't stay 26f ?

Jan 16, 2024 -- 3:53PM, nineteen points wrote:

dont gamble too much if you think an 80% fit CH would win any race easily never mind i big handicap

Yes, I have ridden good handicapper lead horses for group 1 performers who were having their first work of the season and they would breeze by me like i was rooted to the ground.

And for a serious 7f piece of work, last one before a race, you are at near racing pace for the last 2 furlongs, quickening up from a half pace.

Similar to a race where they quicken up off a 3/4 pace but are not "at it" for the entire race.

Jan 16, 2024 -- 3:59PM, brandyontherocks wrote:

Do you honestly think they run him over 2 miles in a "regular piece of work"I seriously hope you don't.

I don't know how Heno trains his horses, but i'd imagine with interval training maybe he would be doing work over a mile or so, quicken up past (or join) the lead horse in the final 2.


Or he could train them for speed over a half mile, but you would be going half pace and quicken together.

Once the horse is fit they don't need to be topping him all the time, but they ease off in fitness when he won't be racing and then bring it up for the required race.
Mentally you would wreak a horse if he was at 90/100% fitness all the time and not racing.

nighteen points thinks he will thrash a 80% fit Usain Bolt ?

we all know what has led to this situation ...cramming an entire jumping season into about 6 weeks and 3 meetings  in spring . they used to say cheltenham was a story to end the winter game  , or a narrative the flat wished  for . no longer . there is no narrative when you are having top class jumpers in  nov/dec then put away until march . i'm not aftertiming or being a festival pooper . ive been to them all for years but some long  time  ago the racing post published my letter suggesting where this would end . i dont go to them nowadays and look forward to the flat for more competitive action lasting many months .