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Seems to me it doesnt take much to call off meetings now, many mid-meeting.
Last Saturday's Bangor meeting being a classic example - Numerous trainers whinged off and withdrew their runners on the (supposed) basis the ground was 'unsafe' to race on. Much to Bangor's credit, they ignored this and carried on with card which completed fine, without any mishaps and watching the races (no patches of 'unsafe' or particularly muddy or slippy ground) it made you wonder what the hell is going on?
Ollie Murphy was interviewed at the course and he was clearly annoyed at his fellow trainers attempts to get the meeting called off. Quite right, and well said Ollie.
Dolling off hurdles and fences is now a pandemic in the sport, and even the commentators on RTV and SKY (who normally are very wary of ruffling any feathers whatsoever) seem totally pissed off with it.
Jump racing is being denuded by this ridiculous kowtowing to grossly exaggerated perceived safety concerns
I'd love someone to do a study counting horse falls in winter low-level sunlight in seasons circa 1980-90 compared to dull cloudy days over the same period - I'd wager good money there isn't a smidgeon of difference.
Racing is shooting itself in the hoof at a time when the sport is under threat from various angles ranging from poor prize money to staffing issues to affordability checks
Do the powers that be really think that 'Animal Aid' will let up now they have again denuded the Grand National to such an extent it is now just another handicap? Dream on. Animal Aid won't be content until the race itself, and no doubt the sport itself ceases to exist. The BHA are naieve in the extreme and are readily reinforcing the maxim 'go woke - go broke'
Last Saturday's Bangor meeting being a classic example - Numerous trainers whinged off and withdrew their runners on the (supposed) basis the ground was 'unsafe' to race on. Much to Bangor's credit, they ignored this and carried on with card which completed fine, without any mishaps and watching the races (no patches of 'unsafe' or particularly muddy or slippy ground) it made you wonder what the hell is going on?
Ollie Murphy was interviewed at the course and he was clearly annoyed at his fellow trainers attempts to get the meeting called off. Quite right, and well said Ollie.
Dolling off hurdles and fences is now a pandemic in the sport, and even the commentators on RTV and SKY (who normally are very wary of ruffling any feathers whatsoever) seem totally pissed off with it.
Jump racing is being denuded by this ridiculous kowtowing to grossly exaggerated perceived safety concerns
I'd love someone to do a study counting horse falls in winter low-level sunlight in seasons circa 1980-90 compared to dull cloudy days over the same period - I'd wager good money there isn't a smidgeon of difference.
Racing is shooting itself in the hoof at a time when the sport is under threat from various angles ranging from poor prize money to staffing issues to affordability checks
Do the powers that be really think that 'Animal Aid' will let up now they have again denuded the Grand National to such an extent it is now just another handicap? Dream on. Animal Aid won't be content until the race itself, and no doubt the sport itself ceases to exist. The BHA are naieve in the extreme and are readily reinforcing the maxim 'go woke - go broke'
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Try driving or cycling at 35 mph into a hedge, you would probably come out better than a horse and jockey hitting a fence at the same speed but not great just the same, anyone who has driven in low winter sun knows how difficult it is to see even a few yards ahead. More common sense than appeasement imvho!!
Common sense is a 2023 novelty eh?
Care to comment about comparing falls to those from 20 years ago before the likes of you got involved?
Care to comment about comparing falls to those from 20 years ago before the likes of you got involved?
Dec 8, 2023 -- 3:43PM, CagliariG wrote:
Try driving or cycling at 35 mph into a hedge, you would probably come out better than a horse and jockey hitting a fence at the same speed but not great just the same, anyone who has driven in low winter sun knows how difficult it is to see even a few yards ahead. More common sense than appeasement imvho!!
Common sense is a 2023 novelty eh?
Care to comment about comparing falls to those from 20 years ago before the likes of you got involved?
Do you work for the BHA by any chance?
To make it simple for you, just run into a wooden fence with your eyes closed, feel good iyo? TAPS.......hth?
French racing does not miss fences out and they seem to have a bit more sun than us.
Cag wouldn't know about 20 years ago, he only joined here July 2022
Btw cropsick, can you back that statement with facts never mind the time difference for the position of the sun?
Dec 8, 2023 -- 4:26PM, CagliariG wrote:
To make it simple for you, just run into a wooden fence with your eyes closed, feel good iyo? TAPS.......hth?
Just to make it simple for you, why don't we just take all the fences and hurdles out of the ground altogether?
How many fallers since records began could the authorities attribute to being caused by the big shiny thing that's always been in the sky?
Low sun? Walofs.
Apart from the inventions of the Spinning Jenny and the Ravelling Nancy during the industrial revolution, the only other thing I still remember from school history lessons was the assertion that "Appeasement never succeeds."
Several further decades of life experience have done nothing to dissuade me of the veracity of that statement.
Several further decades of life experience have done nothing to dissuade me of the veracity of that statement.
Dec 9, 2023 -- 2:08AM, bettinghelp wrote:
Apart from the inventions of the Spinning Jenny and the Ravelling Nancy during the industrial revolution, the only other thing I still remember from school history lessons was the assertion that "Appeasement never succeeds." Several further decades of life experience have done nothing to dissuade me of the veracity of that statement.
Absolutely bettinghelp.
The world is definitely a changing landscape, sadly not for the better (or bettor).
Appeasement never works is correct
Look at the Tory party, the headbangers are still not happy after ruining the country
Look at the Tory party, the headbangers are still not happy after ruining the country
Another debacle at Doncaster again yesterday.
Jump racing morphed into flat racing, with one race having NO FENCE for the last 7 Furlongs!
It gets better - when you looked, the shadows were at a 90 degree angle to the fences! From the side.
They going to call meetings off soon because its a sunny day?
Beyond a joke now.
Jump racing morphed into flat racing, with one race having NO FENCE for the last 7 Furlongs!
It gets better - when you looked, the shadows were at a 90 degree angle to the fences! From the side.
They going to call meetings off soon because its a sunny day?
Beyond a joke now.
It was up the straight in 2nd to last race,but cloud covered for last,but had already decided to doll them off.
On the whole, I agree with the OP. But I was at Donny yesterday and left after the sixth race. I was parked in the owners and trainers opposite the course and turned right at the lights into the main road that runs outside the track. I drove for a few yards before hitting the next set of lights. But at that point the sun was at such an angle that it totally blinded me for a couple of seconds.
This has happened a few times before and does make me think what it would be like riding a strong racehorse into a fence at 30mph or more. However, we must then consider that dolling off fences due to low sun was unheard of in the past. So, what did the jockeys do then? One presumes they just jumped the fence and go on with it! Also, in French racing they must just carry on because the obstacles run the whole width of the track.
Therefore, whilst I can see that jumping a horse into the sun is not ideal, we do seem to be a bit too 'precious' over it all now.
I have also just finished a book by Jamie Read called 'Bandit Country' about gangsters basically introducing fruit machines into Newcastle in the 1960's. The book covers the introduction of the 1961 Betting and Gaming act and its weaknesses. However, what I noticed from back then was how those in government were smart enough to appreciate that 'human frailty and weakness' can never be fully legislated for. But today, be it with affordability checks or reading the rather naive replies from CagliariG, our younger generations do not understand that risk is part of life and in messing around trying to eliminate it, things are often made much worse.
This has happened a few times before and does make me think what it would be like riding a strong racehorse into a fence at 30mph or more. However, we must then consider that dolling off fences due to low sun was unheard of in the past. So, what did the jockeys do then? One presumes they just jumped the fence and go on with it! Also, in French racing they must just carry on because the obstacles run the whole width of the track.
Therefore, whilst I can see that jumping a horse into the sun is not ideal, we do seem to be a bit too 'precious' over it all now.
I have also just finished a book by Jamie Read called 'Bandit Country' about gangsters basically introducing fruit machines into Newcastle in the 1960's. The book covers the introduction of the 1961 Betting and Gaming act and its weaknesses. However, what I noticed from back then was how those in government were smart enough to appreciate that 'human frailty and weakness' can never be fully legislated for. But today, be it with affordability checks or reading the rather naive replies from CagliariG, our younger generations do not understand that risk is part of life and in messing around trying to eliminate it, things are often made much worse.
On the whole, I agree with the OP. But I was at Donny yesterday and left after the sixth race. I was parked in the owners and trainers opposite the course and turned right at the lights into the main road that runs outside the track. I drove for a few yards before hitting the next set of lights. But at that point the sun was at such an angle that it totally blinded me for a couple of seconds.
This has happened a few times before and does make me think what it would be like riding a strong racehorse into a fence at 30mph or more. However, we must then consider that dolling off fences due to low sun was unheard of in the past. So, what did the jockeys do then? One presumes they just jumped the fence and go on with it! Also, in French racing they must just carry on because the obstacles run the whole width of the track.
Therefore, whilst I can see that jumping a horse into the sun is not ideal, we do seem to be a bit too 'precious' over it all now.
I have also just finished a book by Jamie Read called 'Bandit Country' about gangsters basically introducing fruit machines into Newcastle in the 1960's. The book covers the introduction of the 1961 Betting and Gaming act and its weaknesses. However, what I noticed from back then was how those in government were smart enough to appreciate that 'human frailty and weakness' can never be fully legislated for. But today, be it with affordability checks or reading the rather naive replies from CagliariG, our younger generations do not understand that risk is part of life and in messing around trying to eliminate it, things are often made much worse.
This has happened a few times before and does make me think what it would be like riding a strong racehorse into a fence at 30mph or more. However, we must then consider that dolling off fences due to low sun was unheard of in the past. So, what did the jockeys do then? One presumes they just jumped the fence and go on with it! Also, in French racing they must just carry on because the obstacles run the whole width of the track.
Therefore, whilst I can see that jumping a horse into the sun is not ideal, we do seem to be a bit too 'precious' over it all now.
I have also just finished a book by Jamie Read called 'Bandit Country' about gangsters basically introducing fruit machines into Newcastle in the 1960's. The book covers the introduction of the 1961 Betting and Gaming act and its weaknesses. However, what I noticed from back then was how those in government were smart enough to appreciate that 'human frailty and weakness' can never be fully legislated for. But today, be it with affordability checks or reading the rather naive replies from CagliariG, our younger generations do not understand that risk is part of life and in messing around trying to eliminate it, things are often made much worse.
Sorry, it posted twice due to an interrupt to my online session...
The Knight might want to see the reintroduction of concrete posts and wooden railings on racecourses to prove to the younger generation that risk is acceptable and should be embraced instead of avoided and a horse covering 88 feet in 2 seconds at 30 mph aimed at a 4'6" obstacle is not hazardous (the time he says he was blinded)?
And does anyone know how good a horses eyesight is with sun glare in its face or is that a naive question iyo The Knight? Why would or should it be acceptable to get jockeys to ride a 500 kg animal at an obstacle they or the horse may not be able to see?
Btw The Knight after serving in four different decades in uniform in various disciplines I doubt I am as naive as yourself!!?
And does anyone know how good a horses eyesight is with sun glare in its face or is that a naive question iyo The Knight? Why would or should it be acceptable to get jockeys to ride a 500 kg animal at an obstacle they or the horse may not be able to see?
Btw The Knight after serving in four different decades in uniform in various disciplines I doubt I am as naive as yourself!!?
Between 2005 and 2013 only 30 to 35 races were effected with low sun and then in 2014 this went up to nearly 70.
This can't be because the sun has changed angle or become brighter.
I can't find any figures now but I'd imagine it is in the 100's
This can't be because the sun has changed angle or become brighter.
I can't find any figures now but I'd imagine it is in the 100's
I reckon its all down to liability, if a Jockey is seriously injured while taking part in a race where the fences are affected by low sun who is responsible for allowing those fences to be jumped,the stewards who are employed by the BHA are not going to be put in that position.
Reading the protocol it's all down to the jockeys and If one says it's no good that's it
A condition of insurance I suspect. "Failing to take all reasonable steps to avoid ....etc ...etc". Be fairly standard, routine condition of insurance policy for course/BHA. Low sun + failure to consider representations + Irrational decision to refuse to remove obstacle = £squillions in damages to those jockeys/owners and trainers horses who are injured at a fall at a fence. What would have been reasonable in law 30 years ago is unreasonable negligence now.
Another utter debacle at Fakenham today.
A sport in total disarray
Complete disregard and arrogance toward racegoers
Dont they have any tractors in Norfolk? If the ambulance gets stuck - IF
But no - just abandon the meeting
Shambles
A sport in total disarray
Complete disregard and arrogance toward racegoers
Dont they have any tractors in Norfolk? If the ambulance gets stuck - IF
But no - just abandon the meeting
Shambles
Yes, it's a fiasco. But they can't say to the jockeys, you just lie there with a broken neck, or back, or leg, which we fetch a tractor....
With 2 of the fences and hurdles having been taken out would it not be conceivable to have a few different first aiders standing at each fence or hurdle?
the tractor can take the ambulance down, and back
IF necessary
Even under its own steam the ambulance would be going slow anyway
Its 99% sure its the health and safety muppets - 'ooohhh. we cant drive our vehicle on slippy grass'
Did they give it a trial? See if they could do it?
No
They just abandon
You are witnessing a slow death of Horse Racing
IF necessary
Even under its own steam the ambulance would be going slow anyway
Its 99% sure its the health and safety muppets - 'ooohhh. we cant drive our vehicle on slippy grass'
Did they give it a trial? See if they could do it?
No
They just abandon
You are witnessing a slow death of Horse Racing
Must have known the problem earlier in the day,if not someone is not doing their job properly.
The ambulance has to be able to get to an injury within 1 minute.
Cagliari G,
What on earth does serving in uniform have to do with anything? Sorry, but from my experience, many in uniform rather lack the ability to think for themselves - and before you reply with another insult, remember you stared it with that uncalled final line of your post. I can also assure you that I am the least naive person you are ever likely to meet and I doubt you have had as much happen to you in life as I have.
But what your reply fails to address anyway is why things are so different nowadays than from the past? Horses see the same now as they always have and the sun has always shone from the sky! Yet, it is only nowadays we work ourselves into a froth over it all.
And, you know the real reason why? It is because everyone in the UK is sh*t-scared of being prosecuted for neglect! That is why we have all this hand-wringing.
If racing asked the jump jocks to sign a disclaimer over 'low sun accidents' before they raced for any of the Cheltenham big money prizes, how many would actually agree? Not many, I can assure you. Also, how many would ride in France for good money despite how they do not seem to be bothered by the low sun there?
But who can blame them in the UK today for taking the easy route out of jumping obstacles? I would do the same. But where will it end? The abolishing of racing, that is where because the do-gooders (are you one?) will win the day unless common sense is re-introduced.
What on earth does serving in uniform have to do with anything? Sorry, but from my experience, many in uniform rather lack the ability to think for themselves - and before you reply with another insult, remember you stared it with that uncalled final line of your post. I can also assure you that I am the least naive person you are ever likely to meet and I doubt you have had as much happen to you in life as I have.
But what your reply fails to address anyway is why things are so different nowadays than from the past? Horses see the same now as they always have and the sun has always shone from the sky! Yet, it is only nowadays we work ourselves into a froth over it all.
And, you know the real reason why? It is because everyone in the UK is sh*t-scared of being prosecuted for neglect! That is why we have all this hand-wringing.
If racing asked the jump jocks to sign a disclaimer over 'low sun accidents' before they raced for any of the Cheltenham big money prizes, how many would actually agree? Not many, I can assure you. Also, how many would ride in France for good money despite how they do not seem to be bothered by the low sun there?
But who can blame them in the UK today for taking the easy route out of jumping obstacles? I would do the same. But where will it end? The abolishing of racing, that is where because the do-gooders (are you one?) will win the day unless common sense is re-introduced.
Jan 2, 2024 -- 12:48PM, strontium wrote:
Yes, it's a fiasco. But they can't say to the jockeys, you just lie there with a broken neck, or back, or leg, which we fetch a tractor....
Thats one end of the spectrum, albeit a completely worse-case scenario
But whatever happened to good old common sense in this country? A happy medium, so we can get things done?
The everyday person in this country now has to wait 5 hours (and more) for an ambulance - even the most catastrophic RTA's don't operate on a '1 minute response' time - and there are FAR MORE of those every day than jump jockey injuries which require a 1 minute response.
Yes, I think it's reasonable to debate if that rule is appropriate - presumably with the jockeys. Keeping in mind that riding a jumps race is rather higher risk than most driving.
My point above was that yesterday, Fakenham had to operate with that rule in place. Because they couldn't meet the existing requirement, the meeting had to be called off.
My point above was that yesterday, Fakenham had to operate with that rule in place. Because they couldn't meet the existing requirement, the meeting had to be called off.
Found this on google
1. Who needs sunglasses?!
Thanks to some clever yellow pigments at the centre of the eye’s lens, horses can reduce the glare of bright sunlight (something we’d need a pair of sunglasses for).
In addition, the ‘corpora nigra’ (the dark horizontal bit that runs close to the pupil) acts as a sun visor, shading the pupil from glare.
However, like us, horses still need time to adjust to different light conditions
1. Who needs sunglasses?!
Thanks to some clever yellow pigments at the centre of the eye’s lens, horses can reduce the glare of bright sunlight (something we’d need a pair of sunglasses for).
In addition, the ‘corpora nigra’ (the dark horizontal bit that runs close to the pupil) acts as a sun visor, shading the pupil from glare.
However, like us, horses still need time to adjust to different light conditions
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