William Hill Scrapping Best Odds Guaranteed

Someone had started a thread saying this a few weeks back. No doubt other bookies will follow if they haven't already.

Will it be prohibited anyway under the proposed gambling reforms?

From the 20th September

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31817281/hlls-getting-rid-of-bog-on-horses?post_id=563458427#563458427

The 'justification', I would imagine, is that they expect that the business they will lose by withdrawing BOG is of less value than the cost of continuing it?

Pretty much by definition, everyone on this Forum is value-aware - how many recreational sportsbook-only punters are so aware?

Once best odds goes. If you bet close to the off you only need BF really

An irrelevant bookmaker for a long time. Can't remember the last time I found them worth having a bet with.

Early morning prices Gone
BOG Gone.
i use to get up early and go round the different shops getting the prices.
The shops were always busy, you tried to get on before 10.15 and were queuing behind the bloke in front who wanted a price on all 8 horses in a 5p Goliath.
The last time i went into a shop on a saturday morning was about 10am , to read the RP,Not a single person came in during the 15 mins i was there.

I also got the email a few weeks back. Still says "BOG from 10am" on their racecards tho so I guess its only certain people getting the chop...

This is starting the 7 November.

longbridge, so why offer it in the first place as that argument won't have changed?

Who is going to place a bet with a bookmaker who does not give you BOG only a fool?

Think from the company perspective dd it's about offering a good idea at the time to fight competition but not let the offer become wallpaper , once the analysis of the customer base indicates it's changing for the worse then it's time to pull the plug in the most friendly way possible.

You'd also be amazed how many customers will remain betting on the site despite the concession withdrawal , i can vividly remember personally writing to at least a dozen customers confirming that their personal concessions wouldn't be affected by anything they may read or hear about.

It's all about the quality of customer base and what the company has invested in building up the type of base that will suit the business model , if that investment didn't exist then ask yourself how on earth would the likes of L******** ever attract another bet.

Anybody tried betmgm yet

THE GAME HAS GONE.
EVEN SOLD SOME SHARES ON FRIDAY.

All the firms stopping this.

Basically saying. All our odds compilers aren’t very good,but they’re jolly good chaps,so we’ll punish the punter and increase the odds complilers bonus s.

Or

We don’t offer very good value on the tissue,so they all usually drift,so why give the better odds away,once the punter has taken the lower price.

Every angle to increase margins is looked at,they shave everything they can,till there’s nothing left.
Then they fall over each other offering free bets etc.

Short term profits v long term trust.we all know what’s better,but todays ceo has long gone.

Profitable or not SKY don't do BOG on dogs being lazy when they did would often bet with them all night now don't even switch on or look at SKY is BF all the way. Must be some logic behind the decision I think about all the negative accounts and restrictions me included gets to a point you just cannot be arsed to look default for good or bad is back on here I suspect for most now apart from folk like anorak et al.

Don't know about gone ronnie is dead and dying look at 888 price last two weeks representative you would think all the unsettledness GC cannot see that. not for want of trying 12 months you will not be able to get on because of AC's and restrictions how many accounts are closing anybody have the figs?

All i want or need is a good bookie credit account usedto enjoy ringing the banter and goodwill the conversation was that was personalised without OTT fairness not necessarily BOG I paid up usually before I got the statement somebody you can trust is reasonable had one few years ago until they stopped not too much to ask.

My 'double your odds' epic boost promo has stopped too; I used them weekly to boost City Of Troy 2000G and Epsom prices eg from 16/1 -> 5/2,  and 14/1 -> 8/1; even my 'SOTD' has been a waste of time after cashing out £245 winning post Dewhurst and Fillies Mile.

Next could be 365. They were "too competitive" with their antepost City Of Troy 2000G and Epsom prices eg 25/1 and 20/1 respectively. Possibly this time next year the bookies could sulk and stop taking bets altogether. Here's hoping!

take bets off anyone who's not price sensitive until the facking cows come home

9/2 at theirs, 8.2 here.  tenner ?  sure you wouldn't like to make it 50 ??

9/2 at theirs, 5.4 here.  tenner ?  you can have 3 pence and check your emails for one from us requesting you fk off

bet3sixfive will clean up

Shares in them all taking a battering until the market knows what’s going on and could dip further but most books don’t rely on the horseracing for the large profits like entain they have fingers in many pies not just horseracing they are global, be interesting to see where it all ends up and it’s proper gambling you either hold your nerve and hope It will get better or get rid I’m forced to hold and may dip in again if getting even lower which can happen short term imo

who in their right mind if coming up with a business plan would have BOG on horses though?  ridiculous concession.  has to go IMO. amazed it has lasted this long.

@differentdrum

"longbridge, so why offer it in the first place as that argument won't have changed?"

So - guessing here - whoever did it first won some market share from it, then others followed to avoid losing share, then it became a standard punters expected and lost differentiation and lost punters' focus?  Same with Luckies?

Like cashback credit cards and supermarket loyalty cards?  Early offer was great, everyone else started offering something similar, it stopped being a differentiator, everyone slowly lowered or removed the benefit?

longbridge

Absolutely spot on.

Agree Longbridge it became less profitable wallpaper, posted similar earlier on the thread.

I have always (well, since online betting became a thing) been surprised that bookmakers do not make a thing of a telling their customers what they have gained by these offers.

If you were a regular punter with XYZ bookie, and you had a monthly email that said "September offers - you gained X pounds" with a breakdown of "we paid you X pounds extra for these bets for BOG, X pounds in consolation/bonus for these Luckies, gave you X pounds in 'justice' refunds, X pounds of free bets".

But they don't.  So I imagine a huge fraction of the millions they must pay out on these 'concessions' go un-noticed by the beneficiaries thereof?

yes, this is logical reasoning.  think bookies are facing big cost increases & media rights & streaming costs have gone up loads.  seems good business practice to remove, and surely a matter of time before it is a thing of the past.

A number of things I find barely credible on what should be essentially a punters forum - jocks, trainers, owners all have their associations, but punters have virtually no voice at all - and this is one of them. People queuing up to defend the removal of something that is clearly a plus for punters? Crazy.

After flushing out those with half a clue, with either restrictions or closure, it's hard to believe that this is a massive loser for them. More and more gambles are now taking place a few minutes before the off, not on the overnight prices. Those that do it will likely only get away with it once. Why would you want to lose business? I would have thought that was inevitable. It would be interesting to know how much business Corals have gained from being the only one to continue to offer BOG on first show. I have certainly used them more often than before.

sky pretend to still have it but as it doesnt apply till 9 on day of race and doesnt count any races their running an offer on extra places,money back 2nd ,3rd etc, on a saturday/festival basically very few races incorporated in to their bog offer

BOG is a concession, not a given right.

Surely the concept was borne out of competing with this place, and not necessarily with each other?

Correct Ken , that's why there's a business need to not allow it to become wallpaper , otherwise the withdrawal is seen as a far bigger negative vs the positivity gained by offering the concession in the first place.

These businesses are shifting away from HR as being a necessity in their operating model, if that has not already occurred.

I’m surprised they didn’t get their heads together years ago, Hayden, and all of them pull it at the same time. It’s probably been the best concession we will ever see. Definitely be gone from everywhere before long.

they,ll end up losing custom,people betting later but even with punters with a supposed inclinb like myself for example and pundits been paid for their opinion,can for example on a fri night/tea time but up 10.12.16,s shots that end up 25,33.40,s shots, taking 16,s for something that wins at 33,s feels like backing a loser when your only trying to pinch 1,2.points by punting early, on a saturday/festival day i leave it till lunchtime and beyond before betting ,unless its bog

My 'expertise' was specials, which used to be significant markets, and lots of them. Now it's completely dead, save for eurovision. They must have been printing money in the early days from the casuals, but just got left filling the people they couldn't beat. Once we were restricted out of the markets, there was nothing left. HR going a similar way as there is not much new blood, regulars slowly moving upstairs and ACs seeing the rest off.

I agree ftp. Outsider backers will take the biggest hit. Hardly a worry if you’ve took 5/2 and it wins at 3’s, you’re still happy for the win.

2 additional problems with it kembo are one good and one bad
good they dont win very often ,
bad as your on at 16,s,as punters hard to say your that far out/wrong on tv saturday races so you go back in at the bigger prices

Do winning accounts (ie punter winning) still get BoG?

I stopped going in my local Hills when they put in a new manager. He/she is a cross-dresser a la Eddie Izzard. There are only one set of toilets and I dont want to be stood next to a bird with a bigger còck than me!

FTP.

No, Cider.

Having said that, Cider, a lot of losers can’t get them either.

Ken

I met with the CEO of opposition companies on several occasions , agreed a concession amnesty for a limited period but the period was very rarely renewed as the change in market share invariably dictated the strategy.

It resulted in the smaller companies crossing their fingers praying for decent results and make 3% of £3 profit as opposed to 7% of £1.

Such a frustration sometimes negotiating with supposed business experts who couldn't see the wood for the trees.

It’s all getting a bit technical for me there, Hayden! Is that 9% versus 7%?

Basically they wanted as much turnover as they could get by offering better concessions , then cross their fingers and hope they didn't pay too much out.

They just didn't want to play on a level playing field no matter what the inevitable long term business cost.

Ah, with you now.

Cider 24 Oct 23 16:59 
Do winning accounts (ie punter winning) still get BoG


yes

hills until recently and still 653

are they also getting rid of each-way betting ??

didn't think so ....

have an extra place on the days most impossible handicap

roll up, roll up !!

Some Lads shops changing bog terms .bog only after 11.00 and will be only for 50.00 instead of 100.
Have a nice day.
Ronnie.

Its only a trial.

If it shows that the bookmakers have entered into an agreement then that is a crime ie when Sotherbys and Christies did it.

I think it's no more an agreement than when petrol stations stopped giving away tokens for free glassware (if others can remember that?).

I would think the big bookies have been a cartel for years.

Why would they be?  It's a massively competitive fight for share in a barely-growing market?

I have closed my Hills account

The ISP will have saved them millions that would be one example of them working together.

longbridge is right that bookies should tell customers what BOG gave them. Supermarkets tell you how much you saved by using their loyalty cards.

BOG is important for customers with jobs. Not everyone is at home betting race-by-race. BOG meant these punters could place their bets before work without having to guess the market before deciding whether to take the early price or SP.

Restricting BOG to after 10 or 11 o'clock will have killed that, except for lunchtime punters.

But these days, the big profits for bookies come from football, and football is played when punters are at home, not like racing.

ram is spot on with todays sensitive markets to unknown info to most you,d have to be certifable insane  to place bets before lunch time on race day unless you thought you new something

if bog goes and your betting early and normal so called social punter,i,d sday over time you,d be better of going sp rather  than taking an early price,who,d have said that 20 yrs ago

Some of the people on here are far too entitled.
The concessions given over the last 30 years…. Early prices on EVERY race, BOG, Extra places, pay on both results in Stewards enquiry.

In the 80s on course, Novice Hurdles at Warwick, Maidens at Leicester & Bumpers anywhere we’re not priced up on course until 8 minutes before post time…. And what great fun the mad house of the ring was!

get bog in irish bookies. 

can fly over and back for 29 sovs. 

HTH.

^
No

ferry ??

To be fair Willies are from a bygone age no kudos so who cares are new kids on the block now.

I'd rather the firms stopped my BOG but laid a £5 multiple instead of 11p ffs

Melliificent just now @ Carlisle.

It was around 3's on earlier and returned 8/13.

Bog.
No more from 12 December.
Hope you are all well.

Ps I would ask for long odds lads / coral go the same way.

Ronnie, Is that in the shops or online?

Organised crime will fill the void.... I could regale you of things that went on when betting tax was 6-10%..... BLOKES WILL ALWAYS BET ON THE GEE GEES !

But some of ^^^^^ crimbo's are still alive !   

Maybe they might offer a signed photo of Danny Mullins to offset the loss of BOG,