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differentdrum
23 Oct 23 14:09
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Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 18,184 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
According to an email I have just received.

And the justification is? I can't imagine that their profits on racing are down this year.

I have a worse record with them than any other bookmaker so I would think twice about anything they are top priced about.
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Report GEORGE.B October 23, 2023 2:16 PM BST
Someone had started a thread saying this a few weeks back. No doubt other bookies will follow if they haven't already.

Will it be prohibited anyway under the proposed gambling reforms?
Report GEORGE.B October 23, 2023 2:19 PM BST
From the 20th September

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31817281/hlls-getting-rid-of-bog-on-horses?post_id=563458427#563458427
Report longbridge October 23, 2023 2:29 PM BST
The 'justification', I would imagine, is that they expect that the business they will lose by withdrawing BOG is of less value than the cost of continuing it?

Pretty much by definition, everyone on this Forum is value-aware - how many recreational sportsbook-only punters are so aware?
Report racing6699 October 23, 2023 2:47 PM BST
Once best odds goes. If you bet close to the off you only need BF really
Report Storm Alert October 23, 2023 2:55 PM BST
An irrelevant bookmaker for a long time. Can't remember the last time I found them worth having a bet with.
Report dambuster October 23, 2023 3:19 PM BST
Early morning prices Gone
BOG Gone.
i use to get up early and go round the different shops getting the prices.
The shops were always busy, you tried to get on before 10.15 and were queuing behind the bloke in front who wanted a price on all 8 horses in a 5p Goliath.
The last time i went into a shop on a saturday morning was about 10am , to read the RP,Not a single person came in during the 15 mins i was there.
Report UnluckyForSome October 23, 2023 3:31 PM BST
I also got the email a few weeks back. Still says "BOG from 10am" on their racecards tho so I guess its only certain people getting the chop...
Report differentdrum October 23, 2023 3:53 PM BST
This is starting the 7 November.
Report differentdrum October 23, 2023 3:55 PM BST
longbridge, so why offer it in the first place as that argument won't have changed?
Report seaside October 23, 2023 3:57 PM BST
Who is going to place a bet with a bookmaker who does not give you BOG only a fool?
Report Hayden October 23, 2023 4:06 PM BST
Think from the company perspective dd it's about offering a good idea at the time to fight competition but not let the offer become wallpaper , once the analysis of the customer base indicates it's changing for the worse then it's time to pull the plug in the most friendly way possible.

You'd also be amazed how many customers will remain betting on the site despite the concession withdrawal , i can vividly remember personally writing to at least a dozen customers confirming that their personal concessions wouldn't be affected by anything they may read or hear about.

It's all about the quality of customer base and what the company has invested in building up the type of base that will suit the business model , if that investment didn't exist then ask yourself how on earth would the likes of L******** ever attract another bet.
Report freddiewilliams October 23, 2023 4:07 PM BST
Anybody tried betmgm yet
Report ronnie rails October 23, 2023 4:13 PM BST
THE GAME HAS GONE.
EVEN SOLD SOME SHARES ON FRIDAY.
Report comingupthehill October 23, 2023 4:41 PM BST
All the firms stopping this.

Basically saying. All our odds compilers aren’t very good,but they’re jolly good chaps,so we’ll punish the punter and increase the odds complilers bonus s.

Or

We don’t offer very good value on the tissue,so they all usually drift,so why give the better odds away,once the punter has taken the lower price.

Every angle to increase margins is looked at,they shave everything they can,till there’s nothing left.
Then they fall over each other offering free bets etc.

Short term profits v long term trust.we all know what’s better,but todays ceo has long gone.
Report liberator of the oppressed October 23, 2023 4:48 PM BST
Profitable or not SKY don't do BOG on dogs being lazy when they did would often bet with them all night now don't even switch on or look at SKY is BF all the way. Must be some logic behind the decision I think about all the negative accounts and restrictions me included gets to a point you just cannot be arsed to look default for good or bad is back on here I suspect for most now apart from folk like anorak et al.
Report liberator of the oppressed October 23, 2023 4:57 PM BST
Don't know about gone ronnie is dead and dying look at 888 price last two weeks representative you would think all the unsettledness GC cannot see that. not for want of trying 12 months you will not be able to get on because of AC's and restrictions how many accounts are closing anybody have the figs?
Report liberator of the oppressed October 23, 2023 5:04 PM BST
All i want or need is a good bookie credit account usedto enjoy ringing the banter and goodwill the conversation was that was personalised without OTT fairness not necessarily BOG I paid up usually before I got the statement somebody you can trust is reasonable had one few years ago until they stopped not too much to ask.
Report impossible123 October 23, 2023 5:24 PM BST
My 'double your odds' epic boost promo has stopped too; I used them weekly to boost City Of Troy 2000G and Epsom prices eg from 16/1 -> 5/2,  and 14/1 -> 8/1; even my 'SOTD' has been a waste of time after cashing out £245 winning post Dewhurst and Fillies Mile.

Next could be 365. They were "too competitive" with their antepost City Of Troy 2000G and Epsom prices eg 25/1 and 20/1 respectively. Possibly this time next year the bookies could sulk and stop taking bets altogether. Here's hoping!
Report hulk23 October 23, 2023 5:37 PM BST
take bets off anyone who's not price sensitive until the facking cows come home

9/2 at theirs, 8.2 here.  tenner ?  sure you wouldn't like to make it 50 ??
Report hulk23 October 23, 2023 5:38 PM BST
9/2 at theirs, 5.4 here.  tenner ?  you can have 3 pence and check your emails for one from us requesting you fk off
Report xmoneyx October 23, 2023 8:43 PM BST
bet3sixfive will clean up
Report know all October 23, 2023 11:20 PM BST
Shares in them all taking a battering until the market knows what’s going on and could dip further but most books don’t rely on the horseracing for the large profits like entain they have fingers in many pies not just horseracing they are global, be interesting to see where it all ends up and it’s proper gambling you either hold your nerve and hope It will get better or get rid I’m forced to hold and may dip in again if getting even lower which can happen short term imo
Report MOUNT CLERIGO October 24, 2023 1:33 PM BST
who in their right mind if coming up with a business plan would have BOG on horses though?  ridiculous concession.  has to go IMO. amazed it has lasted this long.
Report longbridge October 24, 2023 2:46 PM BST
@differentdrum

"longbridge, so why offer it in the first place as that argument won't have changed?"

So - guessing here - whoever did it first won some market share from it, then others followed to avoid losing share, then it became a standard punters expected and lost differentiation and lost punters' focus?  Same with Luckies?

Like cashback credit cards and supermarket loyalty cards?  Early offer was great, everyone else started offering something similar, it stopped being a differentiator, everyone slowly lowered or removed the benefit?
Report saxon farm October 24, 2023 2:51 PM BST
longbridge

Absolutely spot on.
Report Hayden October 24, 2023 2:54 PM BST
Agree Longbridge it became less profitable wallpaper, posted similar earlier on the thread.
Report longbridge October 24, 2023 3:16 PM BST
I have always (well, since online betting became a thing) been surprised that bookmakers do not make a thing of a telling their customers what they have gained by these offers.

If you were a regular punter with XYZ bookie, and you had a monthly email that said "September offers - you gained X pounds" with a breakdown of "we paid you X pounds extra for these bets for BOG, X pounds in consolation/bonus for these Luckies, gave you X pounds in 'justice' refunds, X pounds of free bets".

But they don't.  So I imagine a huge fraction of the millions they must pay out on these 'concessions' go un-noticed by the beneficiaries thereof?
Report MOUNT CLERIGO October 24, 2023 3:18 PM BST
yes, this is logical reasoning.  think bookies are facing big cost increases & media rights & streaming costs have gone up loads.  seems good business practice to remove, and surely a matter of time before it is a thing of the past.
Report differentdrum October 24, 2023 4:17 PM BST
A number of things I find barely credible on what should be essentially a punters forum - jocks, trainers, owners all have their associations, but punters have virtually no voice at all - and this is one of them. People queuing up to defend the removal of something that is clearly a plus for punters? Crazy.

After flushing out those with half a clue, with either restrictions or closure, it's hard to believe that this is a massive loser for them. More and more gambles are now taking place a few minutes before the off, not on the overnight prices. Those that do it will likely only get away with it once. Why would you want to lose business? I would have thought that was inevitable. It would be interesting to know how much business Corals have gained from being the only one to continue to offer BOG on first show. I have certainly used them more often than before.
Report 1st time poster October 24, 2023 4:32 PM BST
sky pretend to still have it but as it doesnt apply till 9 on day of race and doesnt count any races their running an offer on extra places,money back 2nd ,3rd etc, on a saturday/festival basically very few races incorporated in to their bog offer
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 4:36 PM BST
BOG is a concession, not a given right.
Report Cider October 24, 2023 4:41 PM BST
Surely the concept was borne out of competing with this place, and not necessarily with each other?
Report Hayden October 24, 2023 4:43 PM BST
Correct Ken , that's why there's a business need to not allow it to become wallpaper , otherwise the withdrawal is seen as a far bigger negative vs the positivity gained by offering the concession in the first place.
Report Cider October 24, 2023 4:43 PM BST
These businesses are shifting away from HR as being a necessity in their operating model, if that has not already occurred.
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 4:47 PM BST
I’m surprised they didn’t get their heads together years ago, Hayden, and all of them pull it at the same time. It’s probably been the best concession we will ever see. Definitely be gone from everywhere before long.
Report 1st time poster October 24, 2023 4:47 PM BST
they,ll end up losing custom,people betting later but even with punters with a supposed inclinb like myself for example and pundits been paid for their opinion,can for example on a fri night/tea time but up 10.12.16,s shots that end up 25,33.40,s shots, taking 16,s for something that wins at 33,s feels like backing a loser when your only trying to pinch 1,2.points by punting early, on a saturday/festival day i leave it till lunchtime and beyond before betting ,unless its bog
Report Cider October 24, 2023 4:50 PM BST
My 'expertise' was specials, which used to be significant markets, and lots of them. Now it's completely dead, save for eurovision. They must have been printing money in the early days from the casuals, but just got left filling the people they couldn't beat. Once we were restricted out of the markets, there was nothing left. HR going a similar way as there is not much new blood, regulars slowly moving upstairs and ACs seeing the rest off.
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 4:52 PM BST
I agree ftp. Outsider backers will take the biggest hit. Hardly a worry if you’ve took 5/2 and it wins at 3’s, you’re still happy for the win.
Report 1st time poster October 24, 2023 4:57 PM BST
2 additional problems with it kembo are one good and one bad
good they dont win very often Laugh,
bad as your on at 16,s,as punters hard to say your that far out/wrong on tv saturday races so you go back in at the bigger prices Laugh
Report Cider October 24, 2023 4:59 PM BST
Do winning accounts (ie punter winning) still get BoG?
Report DIFERENT GRAVY 12 October 24, 2023 5:01 PM BST
I stopped going in my local Hills when they put in a new manager. He/she is a cross-dresser a la Eddie Izzard. There are only one set of toilets and I dont want to be stood next to a bird with a bigger còck than me!
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 5:02 PM BST
FTP. Laugh

No, Cider.
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 5:04 PM BST
Having said that, Cider, a lot of losers can’t get them either.
Report Hayden October 24, 2023 5:09 PM BST
Ken

I met with the CEO of opposition companies on several occasions , agreed a concession amnesty for a limited period but the period was very rarely renewed as the change in market share invariably dictated the strategy.

It resulted in the smaller companies crossing their fingers praying for decent results and make 3% of £3 profit as opposed to 7% of £1.

Such a frustration sometimes negotiating with supposed business experts who couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 5:15 PM BST
It’s all getting a bit technical for me there, Hayden! Is that 9% versus 7%?
Report Hayden October 24, 2023 5:24 PM BST
Basically they wanted as much turnover as they could get by offering better concessions , then cross their fingers and hope they didn't pay too much out.

They just didn't want to play on a level playing field no matter what the inevitable long term business cost.
Report s.kenbo October 24, 2023 5:31 PM BST
Ah, with you now.
Report mitolo October 24, 2023 5:57 PM BST
Cider 24 Oct 23 16:59 
Do winning accounts (ie punter winning) still get BoG


yes

hills until recently and still 653
Report hulk23 October 24, 2023 6:58 PM BST
are they also getting rid of each-way betting ??

didn't think so .... Silly
Report hulk23 October 24, 2023 6:59 PM BST
have an extra place on the days most impossible handicap

roll up, roll up !!
Report ronnie rails October 25, 2023 9:37 AM BST
Some Lads shops changing bog terms .bog only after 11.00 and will be only for 50.00 instead of 100.
Have a nice day.
Ronnie.
Report ronnie rails October 25, 2023 9:38 AM BST
Its only a trial.GrinGrinGrin
Report seaside October 25, 2023 11:16 AM BST
If it shows that the bookmakers have entered into an agreement then that is a crime ie when Sotherbys and Christies did it.
Report longbridge October 25, 2023 12:40 PM BST
I think it's no more an agreement than when petrol stations stopped giving away tokens for free glassware (if others can remember that?).
Report second again October 25, 2023 1:18 PM BST
I would think the big bookies have been a cartel for years.
Report longbridge October 25, 2023 2:08 PM BST
Why would they be?  It's a massively competitive fight for share in a barely-growing market?
Report peterhiggins October 25, 2023 2:51 PM BST
I have closed my Hills account
Report second again October 25, 2023 4:31 PM BST
The ISP will have saved them millions that would be one example of them working together.
Report Ramruma October 25, 2023 5:33 PM BST
longbridge is right that bookies should tell customers what BOG gave them. Supermarkets tell you how much you saved by using their loyalty cards.
Report Ramruma October 25, 2023 5:39 PM BST
BOG is important for customers with jobs. Not everyone is at home betting race-by-race. BOG meant these punters could place their bets before work without having to guess the market before deciding whether to take the early price or SP.

Restricting BOG to after 10 or 11 o'clock will have killed that, except for lunchtime punters.

But these days, the big profits for bookies come from football, and football is played when punters are at home, not like racing.
Report 1st time poster October 25, 2023 7:55 PM BST
ram is spot on with todays sensitive markets to unknown info to most you,d have to be certifable insane  to place bets before lunch time on race day unless you thought you new something
Report 1st time poster October 25, 2023 8:03 PM BST
if bog goes and your betting early and normal so called social punter,i,d sday over time you,d be better of going sp rather  than taking an early price,who,d have said that 20 yrs ago
Report saxon farm October 25, 2023 9:03 PM BST
Some of the people on here are far too entitled.
The concessions given over the last 30 years…. Early prices on EVERY race, BOG, Extra places, pay on both results in Stewards enquiry.

In the 80s on course, Novice Hurdles at Warwick, Maidens at Leicester & Bumpers anywhere we’re not priced up on course until 8 minutes before post time…. And what great fun the mad house of the ring was!
Report hulk23 October 25, 2023 9:14 PM BST
get bog in irish bookies. 

can fly over and back for 29 sovs. 

HTH.
Report saxon farm October 25, 2023 9:23 PM BST
^
No
Report hulk23 October 25, 2023 9:25 PM BST
ferry ??
Report liberator of the oppressed October 26, 2023 10:00 AM BST
To be fair Willies are from a bygone age no kudos so who cares are new kids on the block now.
Report dambuster October 26, 2023 12:13 PM BST
I'd rather the firms stopped my BOG but laid a £5 multiple instead of 11p ffs
Report SlippyBlue October 26, 2023 2:30 PM BST
Melliificent just now @ Carlisle.

It was around 3's on earlier and returned 8/13.
Report ronnie rails November 28, 2023 6:01 PM GMT
Bog.
No more from 12 December.
Hope you are all well.

Ps I would ask for long odds lads / coral go the same way.
Report second again November 29, 2023 6:23 AM GMT
Ronnie, Is that in the shops or online?
Report halcyon days November 29, 2023 10:02 PM GMT
Organised crime will fill the void.... I could regale you of things that went on when betting tax was 6-10%..... BLOKES WILL ALWAYS BET ON THE GEE GEES !
Report halcyon days November 29, 2023 10:04 PM GMT
But some of ^^^^^ crimbo's are still alive !   WinkLaugh
Report comingupthehill November 29, 2023 10:19 PM GMT
Maybe they might offer a signed photo of Danny Mullins to offset the loss of BOG,
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