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13 Jul 23
19:03
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Date Joined:
28 May 10
Why is this tolerated. It very much inconveniences horses and punters alike. If a horse can't canter to the start it should be withdrawn, nuo.
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Replies: 36
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Have to agree - same with those obviously never properly trained to go into a stall...
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The one which was walked down I believe was the one which fell after coming out and then proving a hazard to horses and jockeys alike throughout the race as it careered about riderless. Kind of proves my point.
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yeah - complete joke
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I have said before that there should be a time table for horses before a race and anyone who is late at any stage faces a fine unless they have a very good excuse. An official should have sole responsibility for time keeping. Paddock 15 minutes before start time, jockeys mount 10 minutes before, proceed to start at least 7 minutes before, more for courses where the start is more than 4 furlongs away like Epsom and Newmarket. Report to starter 4 minutes before and be presented to load when called by draw number with no exceptions. I find it amazing that the favourite goes in last in most races regardless of the rules. Any horse that refuses to load twice is withdrawn. Nobody seems to care. I don't buy any of the usual excuses. NH races start every half hour despite taking up to 6 minutes to run each race with loose horses and fallen jockeys to retrieve. Flat races are often late off despite only taking a minute or two. If you show up a minute late at an Olympic final collecting area you can be disqualified.
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I don't watch that much racing from Australia,USA,Hong Kong etc but it is night from day how efficient the loading of the horses happens in those countries compared to ours.
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Chester 14.07 Bamboo Bay nowhere near the start where all the other horses are circling. And on a busy Saturday ...
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and here is another one. Deigns to leave the paddock 4 minutes b4 post time and strolls down to the start. Too much of this.
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Quite a few times they take over 4 mins to load and they wonder why horses get upset in the stalls and are later withdrawn,which to people who bet to win or place on Betfair is a disaster,due to reduction factor.Had one the other day reasonable odds for a place seeing as it was favourite, ended up with odds of 1.18 which I would not have bet if I had known.If it does not happen so much in other countries why does it happen here on a regular basis.
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Because of the reduction factor I often bale out of my bets if given the chance after an important withdrawal.
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Sparrow,always try to get out but the odds shorten so much so that I would have to take a heavy loss,so have to let it ride and if it comes in win a lot less.
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Yes tantpis you have to be quick even sometimes before the horse is officially withdrawn.
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Have to agree the reduction factor is a lot more on the place side than win market and probably could get out of bet if backing to win,but this particular day I was backing for a place.
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I watch alot of French racing and sometimes the racing is much delayed, but the horses load very quickly when it does begin, with very little problems. Also when they do come out of the stalls they actually keep straight and do not veer violently left or right taking others out of the race which seems to happen often over here especially at a lower level.
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Even in Ireland they load quicker,do not believe its the horses causing this problem but the stalls handlers are not as good as elsewhere,otherwise why do we get these problems on a regular basis.Love it when the starters assistant waves a programme or a piece of paper behind the horse to encourage it to go forward,lets face it we are behind in most things in this country so everyone think its the norm.
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Difference in France is that the blokes pushing a reluctant horse all look like retired sumo wrestlers. When they get involved, the horse goes forward into the stall, like it or not.
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Don't underestimate the level of ill treatment that can happen in some countries to make sure that horses are obedient. Argentinians make sure polo ponies never disobey their rider even if he is not mounted. Gauchos do the same. They will stand stock still among a herd of cattle milling round them. The necessary training would not be tolerated in UK. I once saw a horse flogged with a long tom to make it go into starting stalls in another country.
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They treat them the same in Ireland than why the difference in loading times
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It is the lack of discipline in the saddling area, paddock and going to post which contribute to late starts.
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Agree with that but once at the start why does it take them so long to load the horses
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Irish stalls are a different design and wider which I'm sure is part of it.
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British stall loaders look like vertically challenged folk hired from the circus who haven’t seen a decent meal in while.
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Well lets face the Horse Racing is run by Clowns
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Don't mention clowns, it will alert gaze to the forum
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I saw a South African race yesterday, and the loading process took about 10-20 seconds for about 12 horses. Looked like they were loading them 4 at a time, and was a constant stream of horses walking forward and going in
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Don't agree about our handlers. They might benefit from more of them so that they can load more at the same time but otherwise they are fine. It is up to the starters to have them taken away more quickly. They did exclude Call Me Ginger quite quickly yesterday.
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If they are so good why does it take so long on average to load the horses,you cannot blame the starter for that.Maybe it is the size of the stalls causing it,but why cannot somebody in racing circles spot this problem and sort it out.On a regular basis horses have been bursting through stalls and even going down in the stalls because they take so long.
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So nothing to do with the people who actually train the horses then?
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Some of the same horses run in Ireland they do not seem to have the problem over there
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WE dont have to worry about any stalls today,just the Sun coming out in the summer.The way the weather is not much chance of that.
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Yes somebody stood about 100 yards away with a flag watching the horses edge forward for as long as he feels like it.
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Stalls are a problem. They are too narrow. In the USA they are much wider and the stalls handlers
get alongside the horses to help keep their heads still.The reason our stalls are so narrow is to do with efficiency at moving them from race track to race track. If courses owned their own sets of stalls this wouldn't be necessary. Another feature they have elsewhere is an outrider usually on a quarter horse. For a couple of furlongs they are faster than thoroughbreds so ideal for catching loose horses. They could also be used to pony a reluctant runner to the start. On a different subject, racecourses should have purpose built camera towers so when it's windy some poor s d doesn't have to try to hold a camera steady while up in a cherry picker, ( more transportation of equipment from course to course), in a gale force wind. The order of loading is another problem. Why should a trainer be given leave for his runner to be loaded last? They should be loaded in stalls order from 1 out. No exceptions. Another alternative is to load them as they do at some US tracks two at a time as follows eg: Say you have 10 runners. You load them in pairs Stalls 1and6,then 2 and 7, 3 and 8 ,4 and 9,5 and 10 |
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It is the lack of discipline in the saddling area, paddock and going to post which contribute to late starts.
That too but for me, overlying everything else, it is the complete lack of the will to regularise and standardise the stewardship and governance of the racing itself, straight down from the BHA itself, which is the root of the problem. Far too polarised around diversity etc: and ephemeral issues which are of little real relevance. |
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Roggrain.Lots of good sense there.
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Yes but nothing to do with the subject matter of the thread.
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It's an interesting discussion and I have to say the horse I have an involvement in, now does an extra lap of the parade ring, wears a red hood and goes down not at a walk but jogs gently to the start, last down. It keeps her calm and works best for her.
I had a look at her last six races and the latest off time was 3 minutes after the advertised off time. It's not a ploy to make others wait and I'm not 100% sure her actions have caused the race to be late off but if works for her and gives her the best chance of winning. The next time she runs, I will definitely pay more attention what happens at the start from when the rest of the field arrive at the start until when she does. In her last race at Carlisle there were a couple playing up badly In the parade ring, would it be wrong to deliberately make them wait longer at the start by going down slowly, hoping the delay will have an adverse affect on how they run? We certainly won't change our routine and I would imagine it will continue to happen unless the rules are changed. |
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2 of them in this race! Soon none of them will bother being ridden. A complete joke
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