Multiples at Betfair SP

I like the idea.

It would have to be done to a min of £1/leg stakes and not the pennies that BF's own Exchange Multis used to allow, but it should be pretty simple to code against the BF Public API - I wonder if anyone has done it?  There is nothing obvious in the BF App Directory.

I suppose you could do it for a 34 pence stake and if the first two lose have an extra 66p for a £ double for the last two - £3.74 (+66p if first two lose) - max £4.40. 7*34p on first then at least 3*34p on the second

To be useful you would nee to be able to select the number of horses and what type of coverage you want – full or just a subset of multiples – for instance you might want to cover 6 races but in the place market and just want 4-timers, 5-timers, and the 6 runner acc.

someone posted the method a while back, can't think who.

Had they automated it ?

I think it was all manual, obv required gap bt races, just a staking plan, easy enough to work out. But then you think mutliples are mug bet, need to be 50% right to get a return on yankees, stick to singles.

What are you actually trying to achieve - MartinK ?

You ask - "Are there any tools which either gives you the stake on each runner A B C D as the races unfold or does the betting for you automatically."
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ANSWER = Looks like you want a Calculator for MANUALLY Monitoring and Staking/Betting a BSP Yankee Race by Race. -

But you want a Program to do that for you. 

That Request is, of course, an impossibility until/WITHOUT KNOWING the Result of the FIRST Race -
- and - IF a Winner - Then the Price of that Winner ... as such information would have to be Fed-Into the Software AFTER EACH RACE was Run - especially Betfair SP (BSP) - as the BSP is NOT known until the Conclusion of Each Race.

Thus:   First Race Result = IF Winner = Add Price (BSP) ... and then likewise - for the SECOND RACE - ad so on.

Then there are all the Combinations of/like - First Race Winner - 2nd Race LOSER - 3rd Race Winner etc.
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ANYWAY - HERE is the MANUAL STRUCTURE - Itemised - for you to get/build a Picture in your mind of the Machinations of the Bet.

If you wish to MANUALLY Play a YANKKE - Race by Race - the apparent aim of your Request - then ...


It is 7 points on the FIRST Runner (A) - for the 7 Combinations you highlight  ( Doubles AB AC AD  Trebles ABC ABD ACD and  4-timer ABCD)

If the FIRST Runner (A) Loses ...... then  - It is 3 Points on the SECOND Runner (B) - to cover the NEXT Combinations  (BC BD BCD)


   * At this Stage .... If the FIRST Runner (A) WINS -

Then you have now have the STAKE Money for ...

A SINGLE on EACH of (B and C and D) at the multiple of the Price x Stake on (A) ... so - If (A) WON at 4/1 - then You would now have Fiver (£5)  on each of  (B and C and D)

PLUS - 2 x £5 Stake  (On B) for the (Now STARTING) Doubles (BC and BD) -
- and 2 x Further £5 Stakes for the NOW (potential/running) Doubles on (BC and BD) (as the 2nd legs of the original TREBLES (ABC ABD) -
- Along with - ANOTHER 2 x £5 for the Stake for the £5 straight Treble on (BCD) - and a £5 Treble (BCD) as the concluding leg of the original Accumulator (ABCD )

ALL those give you a TOTAL Stake of  £35 = (7 x the above £5 Bets/combinations) All involving (B)

BREAKDOWN

One bet Concluding/Ending = The Double (AB) ...
3 Bets  CONTINUING  (ABC and ABD and ABCD) - 3 Bets Starting (BC and BD and BCD) ... all NOW MANUALLY STARTING with ( B )

If you wish to continue MANUALLY Staking the YANKEE FULLY - Then you must ADD  3x £1 Bets (your Original Stake) on (B) - to cover Doubles (BC and BD) and the Treble (BCD)

Giving you a TOTAL STAKE of £38 on (B)

- and so on - for the THIRD Runner (C) - BUT - that dependent upon RESULTS and PRICES.

If the FIRST Runner LOSES
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Then those - 3x £1 Bets (your Original Stake) on (B) - to cover Doubles (BC and BD) and the Treble (BCD) -
Becomes what/all that is left of the Yankee ...

with just £1 left for the last/final  Double (CD) - which is all that you will have left if both the First Runner (A) and the Second Runner (B) both Lose.
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The Program/Tool -

Would have to have a Window/Box to SELECT = STAKE

A Window/Box to SELECT =  Previous 'LEG' - (A or B or C)  ... So that it can work out How Many Bets to divide into the RETURN from that previous Leg - to then Stake on the number of Bets required in the Next coming Leg.

Then a Window/Box for/to Enter -  'BSP' ....

Then a 'CALCULATE' Button

This would then give you the STAKE for the NEXT LEG  -

BUT - Bare in mind the Betfair 2% COMISSION - DEDUCTED after EACH LEG.... That would have/need to be built-in, somehow....

- and so on - MANUALLY Updated after Each Race -
- or, it would have to, presumably, be linked to Betfair itself to determine the BSP, in order to then AUTOMATICALLY 'do the leg work' for you....

Then there is your next Utopian ideal - "Place the Bets FOR you"   

Holy Moly that's a good effort onlooker!

especially Betfair SP (BSP) - as the BSP is NOT known until the Conclusion of Each Race.

It's known, and displayed, as soon as each race starts.

betfair dropped multiples on exchange because the shrewd were taking a few quid of them as id imagine they were standing them not the layers,

i still do multiples, not many but never do doubles in the bet unless i have big prices and in that case have to use bookies in the shops for the big prices to take advantage of ew all ew as on line betting does not give you the big advantage of using ew all ew

will look at the above formula, thanks

My approach with simple example

Get the number of selections m and create a list of selections (1 to m)
Then create a bet list of all the possible combinations (1,2) (1,3) .. (1,m) for all the double, (1,2,3) …  (m-2,m-1, m) for all the trebles etc. etc.
Get the unit stake and associate it with each combination in the bet list
Repeat for each selection i where (i=1 to m)
  1 - Sum the stakes for each bet list element which contains the selection number i. This is how much you bet on selection i.
  2 - Once the result is known update the stake value associated with bet list element which contains the selection number i. If lose set to 0, if win use the Bfsp to calculate the new stake for this bet list element (remembering to deduct the commission).

At the end of this process you should have a list of all the combinations with either 0 – the sub bet lost, or a stake value which is the return for this sub bet.

Let take a trixie, so m=3 of stake £5 – commission = 10% (for simplicity) – total stake £20

List of selections s1 s2 s3
There are 4 combinations – 3 doubles [(s1,s2) - £5] [(s1,s3) - £5] [(s2,s3) - £5] and a treble [s1,s2,s3) - £5]

Selection = s1 – sum [(s1,s2) - £5] [(s1,s3) - £5]  [s1,s2,s3) - £5] – total stake on s1 = £15
Selection s1 wins at 2.0 – Updated bet list with stakes - 3 doubles [(s1,s2) - £9.50] [(s1,s3) - £9.50] [(s2,s3) - £5] and a treble [s1,s2,s3) - £9.50]

Selection = s2 – sum [(s1,s2) - £9.50] [(s2,s3) - £5]  [s1,s2,s3) - £9.50] – total stake on s2 = £24
Selection s2 loses  – Updated bet list with stakes - 3 doubles [(s1,s2) - £0] [(s1,s3) - £9.50] [(s2,s3) - £0] and a treble [s1,s2,s3) - £0]


Selection = s3 – sum [(s1,s3) - £9.50] [(s2,s3) - £0]  [s1,s2,s3) - £0] – total stake on s3 = £9.50
Selection s3 wins Bfsp 3.0   – Updated bet list with stakes -3 doubles [(s1,s2) - £0] [(s1,s3) - £26.60] [(s2,s3) - £0] and a treble [s1,s2,s3) - £0]

Total returns are profits are £6.60 (£26.60 - £20)

As onlooker points out the fun bit would be interfacing it to the Betfair API

Impossible, I'd say, since you could have subsequent races going off before previous results are known e.g. race delays, stewards, voids, slow settlement, etc. And very late withdrawals affect it all too.

Bet Angel would get close, imo, if you have 3 months to learn the syntax and then set the bot up.

Yes there are limitations and risks, the question is whether having BFsp rather than the official SP is worth the risks

Only if you win long term.

bettinghelp 13 Jul 23 02:49 
especially Betfair SP (BSP) - as the BSP is NOT known until the Conclusion of Each Race.

It's known, and displayed, as soon as each race starts.
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Yes - I am, obviously, well aware and do know that ... and I nearly posted the same -
(although the actual finite timing is absolutely immaterial for the projected purpose of this exercise)  - BUT ...

for the sake of CLARITY - which appears to have evaded your Pedantic Self - I posted - 'Conclusion' - AS ...

You cannot Know the actual BSP BEFORE a race is run .... That is Why I posted 'Conclusion'

Talk about sodding 'nit-picking'. 

If there is gonna be a contest for most pedantic poster on the forum - I think both myself and longbridge should be entered!

I have never understood why people use it (pedant) as a derogatory term. It's an admirable quality and the world would be a better place if more people were pedantic imo.

Thanks TM - I shall take that as the compliment I think it was intended to be.

know all - "as id imagine they were standing them not the layer"

No need to imagine, there was no secret about that, it was in the T&Cs at the time.