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I maintain that a cash out on, say, a horse which becomes a non runner should be void irrrespective of any rule which claims that a cash out is final. In support of this contention I should like to present this scenario.
A five leg acca has a pot of £2,000 after leg 4. Leg 5 is on the 2-1 fav. and a cash-out offer of £600 is taken by the punter. However, the fav. is withdrawn at the start. What is the amount the punter should draw from this bet, £2000 or £600. If you think it should be £2000 then you agree with my contention. I think this is important and that bookmakers should re-think this rule.
A five leg acca has a pot of £2,000 after leg 4. Leg 5 is on the 2-1 fav. and a cash-out offer of £600 is taken by the punter. However, the fav. is withdrawn at the start. What is the amount the punter should draw from this bet, £2000 or £600. If you think it should be £2000 then you agree with my contention. I think this is important and that bookmakers should re-think this rule.
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Morning Eddie, you've been here a long while for someone's name I haven't seen before...
My first thought is that you've accepted the cash out, so anything that subsequently happens is irrelevant... Ie... Tough You wouldn't expect the full payout if the last horse won However, I was more interested in your example Would a running up 2k bet only generate an offer of about 600.?? If so, I wouldn't be touching it Surely better to let it ride and do some laying, backing rival horses to guarantee a bigger payout I appreciate that people may not have the funds to do this And if you've had a 1 pound acca, then guaranteed 600 quid in your example is tempting |
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I should add that the whole purpose of taking a cash out is to avoid the risk that leg 5 is a loser. If the horse becomes a non runner there is no risk to be avoided and therefore the cash out becomes void.
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I realise what the purpose is, Eddie
It's a tricky one that depends which side of the bet you're on, imo I'm nearly always on the punter's side, but not sure with this one |
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This is insane, essentially you want to treat the non-runner as a winner.
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People always complain about cashouts not being fair - that's why they're there, to take the money from people who are afraid to let the bet run.
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what would you want to happen if the reverse happened?
Lets say a jockey/trainer has 5 winners and the punter has the price taken at 14/1 for the last one, it is now a 2/1 shot, and the cashout amount is significantly higher? If it gets withdrawn would the punter have to refund? |
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I generally don't cash out. However, there are some situations I would. For example, in the last leg a Fav is drifting like a barge (from a stable where there are warning signs) before the off to a price you know it can't Win. I know drifters win, of course, but those times are becoming few and far between.
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Presuming the bet is going to pay £6k (if the last leg wins @ 2/1. Have I read that right?) then a £600 cash out would be extremely poor anyway (again, not sure if that’s just an example without figures being properly worked out of wether it happened to you).
Once you’ve cashed out you’ve cashed out though. Even if that later non runner has cost you a lot. |
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Think i'm on Eddies side with this scenario, the last leg being a NR changes everything imo, if he'd let the bet run he couldn't have won anymore and similarly he couldn't have lost and would have got the 2k. Bearing in mind his initial stake would have been about £25 for the 5 timer if all selections around the 2/1 mark so £600 cash out against a possible £6k or nothing may appear reasonable.
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Not sure i fully understand the question, but surely a " cash out " bet is ALL about the odds and potential profit at that time, whatever happens after the the " cash out " is meaningless and irrelevant.
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At a 25% ‘take’ for the house, surely in that scenario the cash out would be £1500 anyway? I know this isn’t really the topic of the thread but anyone taking £600 there shouldn’t be betting anyway!
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Ok Gaze , you've five out of six up.
Here's some scenarios -first figure is what you win if all six win, and second is cash out £600 £100 £6000 £1000 £60000 £10000 £600000 £100000 £6m £1m In the first case, most would let it run. In the last case , how many would risk losing £1m ? I'd be very very afraid of losing £1m I suppose it depends how much money you have and whether you could do a partial cash out. |
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If you know you'll want to cash out a six figure sum after 5 legs, don't even add the 6th leg.
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The figures are immaterial really. Substitute your own figures but examine the principle. Neither punter nor bookie is entitled to profit from a non runner. Glasgow Calling says it's all about the ODDS. It's not it's all about the RISK. One takes cash out to avoid the risk of the selection losing. When the selection becomes a non runner that risk has evaporated. Reason and logic must prevail.
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Now I see the question, so is this n/r After the cash out ? if so it is as i stated totally irrelevant. Whatever happens after a cash out is meaningless.
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a 5 leg acca is worth £2k
and he cashed out £600 after leg 4, before the horse in leg 5 was a N/R so the value of the cashout at the time was ££666.67, not £2k as people think. He wouldnt have been paid £2k had the horse been withdraw in leg 5, he would have been paid £666.67. He would have only got the £2k if the horse ran and won. cashout should stand, as like someone said, if the horse had been unted off the board, to say eves favourite, the cashout might have been £800 or even more at the time it was taken |
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oh, i read it wrong. if you csh out £600 when theres £2k going on your next leg, you deserve everything you get
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always cash out accas and have a little bit back on and well in front. i do them occasionally
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Just to add a different slant to my earlier posts...
Back in the 90s there was an independent bookie in Bath that I used... I'd never come across cash out before He would pay you the full value of the bet as it stood before the final leg So, in the OP example, if you'd done say a 25 quid acca and the first 4 had won, and you had 2 grand running onto a 2/1 shot in the last leg... He would offer you the full 2 grand That was usually a no brainer as you could then have say, 500 on the last one if you wished His argument was that he didn't want to stand 2 grand at 2/1 Used to do it for Yankees, accas etc, any running up bet |
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You are all getting obsessed with the figures. Make cash out £1600 if you like or £1800. It does not matter. What matters is does a non runner make the cash out void? I say yes and I am sure IBAS would agree but it looks like most of you can't see the wood for the trees.
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Crazy nite on here several years ago. Guy came on saying he was waiting on a horse in last for big ACCA. Then a while later a guy comes on thread he owned it.
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Before cashout. I'm not sure. Guy had no big cash to lay it. Guy who owned it rang a mate and not long after it was withdrawn
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Guy with ACCA well pleased
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Regbutler24 Jun 23 12:18Joined: 09 Mar 21 | Topic/replies: 693 | Blogger: Regbutler's blog
Back in the 90s there was an independent bookie in Bath that I used... Reg - just curious, was that G.I.Davies? |
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Can't remember the name, TM
Was very close to the centre of Bath, you could park outside back then It was either the ground floor and/or basement of a large Victorian or the like building with flats above |
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Sounds like it might have been Reg. No worries. Thanks.
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Perhaps my example was too complicated. Take a scenario which might have happened this week. Punter (not me) puts a tenner on Saga at 5-1. It goes out to 10-1 and punter takes a generous cash out of £8. Let us imagine Saga does not run. Is bookie entitled to retain the punter's £2 now that Saga has become a non runner? I say not.
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Eddie - I get your point - but if I was the (unscrupulous) book concerned, I would argue that I had factored the NR possibility into my offer.
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Similar argument...
You've taken the offer, that's it, imo |
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It staggers me that so many people still believe the bookie bastards are running a morally sound business..with punter friendly fairness set as their main priority..
Ultimately, the very moment U opt to sell away your rights to something you own(which includes cashing out), your right to its value(current or future) is LOST. |
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I’d not heard that one before, Freddie. A nice touch from the owner.
Your scenario will be a fairly common one, Eddie. People will be cashing out all kinds of bets each day where a late withdrawal after cashing out would’ve seen them pocket more money. It would be a bit of a fecker when it happens but people will more than likely be berating themselves rather than the bookies. I totally understand your point though. |
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Here's a problem : Say you are lucky enough one day to have 3 decent priced winners in a Yankee. Let's say the cashout is £4782
Now your last horse is evens or something: And your betfair balance is low, and you can't Lay. Now, Cashout or partial cashout is an option. And also, not many accounts will let you deposit a big sum all at once. |
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ProSniper, You are a fool. I am not surprised you are staggering, you have probably had one too many.Why don't you apply your brain if you have one to addressing the problem instead of making snide and stupid remarks. If people like you stopped to think instead of thinking what you are told to think this country might not be in such a mess.
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Cash out is what the bet is worth to the bookmaker AT THAT TIME. You have to forget what happens after you press cash out ( n/rs, deductions etc) as none of it applies to you.
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It is obvious to me that the rule that cash out is final has been written on the assumption that the selection will run and that no consideration has been given to the possibility that it might not. I note that the Betfair Exchange offers cash out. I cannot imagine that a nom runner would offer any benefit to either party of such a transaction.
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On the bookmakers "side". If before the race 4 horses were withdrawn the 2/1 fav then could be 4/7. cash out then wouldn't be £600. But you would expect £600.Plenty other scenarios in the bookmakers or punters favour. "FOOT NOTE" BET 365. AS A GOOD WILL JESTER MIGHT PAY YOU OUT. On some occasions with me they have
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(4 Non runners including the fav.
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Doesn't it work the same on the exchange? Let's say you lay 2.0 and BSP is 3.0 but the horse is withdrawn so you get nothing. If you cash out at 3.0, you don't care that the horse was withdrawn because you get paid.
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Cash Out. Eddie. Oxford Dictionary.(Phrasal Verb)Cash Out. To add the amount of money that has been received in a store, club, bet365 e.t.c. (example)
Especially at the end of the day. The men broke into the office while staff were "CASHING OUT". Eddie "in a nutshell" you have been robbed. |