Cash out

Morning Eddie, you've been here a long while for someone's name I haven't seen before...
My first thought is that you've accepted the cash out, so anything that subsequently happens is irrelevant... Ie... Tough
You wouldn't expect the full payout if the last horse won

However, I was more interested in your example
Would a running up 2k bet only generate an offer of about 600.??
If so, I wouldn't be touching it
Surely better to let it ride and do some laying, backing rival horses to guarantee a bigger payout
I appreciate that people may not have the funds to do this

And if you've had a 1 pound acca, then guaranteed 600 quid in your example is tempting

I should add that the whole purpose of taking a cash out is to avoid the risk that leg 5 is a loser. If the horse becomes a non runner there is no risk to be avoided and therefore the cash out becomes void.

I realise what the purpose is, Eddie

It's a tricky one that depends which side of the bet you're on, imo

I'm nearly always on the punter's side, but not sure with this one

This is insane, essentially you want to treat the non-runner as a winner.

People always complain about cashouts not being fair - that's why they're there, to take the money from people who are afraid to let the bet run.

what would you want to happen if the reverse happened?

Lets say a jockey/trainer has 5 winners and the punter has the price taken at 14/1 for the last one, it is now a 2/1 shot, and the cashout amount is significantly higher?

If it gets withdrawn would the punter have to refund?

I generally don't cash out. However, there are some situations I would. For example, in the last leg a Fav is drifting like a barge (from a stable where there are warning signs) before the off to a price you know it can't Win. I know drifters win, of course, but those times are becoming few and far between.

Presuming the bet is going to pay £6k (if the last leg wins @ 2/1. Have I read that right?) then a £600 cash out would be extremely poor anyway (again, not sure if that’s just an example without figures being properly worked out of wether it happened to you).

Once you’ve cashed out you’ve cashed out though. Even if that later non runner has cost you a lot.

Think i'm on Eddies side with this scenario, the last leg being a NR changes everything imo, if he'd let the bet run he couldn't have won anymore and similarly he couldn't have lost and would have got the 2k. Bearing in mind his initial stake would have been about £25 for the 5 timer if all selections around the 2/1 mark so £600 cash out against a possible £6k or nothing may appear reasonable.

Not sure i fully understand the question, but surely a " cash out " bet is ALL about the odds and potential profit at that time, whatever happens after the the " cash out " is meaningless and irrelevant.

At a 25% ‘take’ for the house, surely in that scenario the cash out would be £1500 anyway? I know this isn’t really the topic of the thread but anyone taking £600 there shouldn’t be betting anyway!

Ok Gaze , you've five out of six up.
Here's some scenarios -first figure is what you win if all six win, and second is cash out
£600      £100
£6000     £1000
£60000    £10000
£600000   £100000
£6m       £1m
In the first case, most would let it run. In the last case , how many would risk losing £1m ? I'd be very very afraid of losing £1m
I suppose it depends how much money you have and whether you could do a partial cash out.

If you know you'll want to cash out a six figure sum after 5 legs, don't even add the 6th leg.

The figures are immaterial really. Substitute your own figures but examine the principle. Neither punter nor bookie is entitled to profit from a non runner. Glasgow Calling says it's all about the ODDS. It's not it's all about the RISK. One takes cash out to avoid the risk of the selection losing. When the selection becomes a non runner that risk has evaporated. Reason and logic must prevail.

Now I see the question, so is this n/r After the cash out ? if so it is as i stated totally irrelevant. Whatever happens after a cash out is meaningless.

a 5 leg acca is worth £2k

and he cashed out £600 after leg 4, before the horse in leg 5 was a N/R

so the value of the cashout at the time was ££666.67, not £2k as people think. He wouldnt have been paid £2k had the horse been withdraw in leg 5, he would have been paid £666.67. He would have only got the £2k if the horse ran and won.

cashout should stand, as like someone said, if the horse had been unted off the board, to say eves favourite, the cashout might have been £800 or even more at the time it was taken

oh, i read it wrong. if you csh out £600 when theres £2k going on your next leg, you deserve everything you get

always cash out accas and have a little bit back on and well in front. i do them occasionally

Just to add a different slant to my earlier posts...

Back in the 90s there was an independent bookie in Bath that I used...
I'd never come across cash out before
He would pay you the full value of the bet as it stood before the final leg

So, in the OP example, if you'd done say a 25 quid acca and the first 4 had won, and you had 2 grand running onto a 2/1 shot in the last leg...
He would offer you the full 2 grand
That was usually a no brainer as you could then have say, 500 on the last one if you wished
His argument was that he didn't want to stand 2 grand at 2/1
Used to do it for Yankees, accas etc, any running up bet

You are all getting obsessed with the figures. Make cash out £1600 if you like or £1800. It does not matter. What matters is does a non runner make the cash out void? I say yes and I am sure IBAS would agree but it looks like most of you can't see the wood for the trees.

Crazy nite on here several years ago. Guy came on saying he was waiting on a horse in last for big ACCA. Then a while later a guy comes on thread he owned it.

Before cashout. I'm not sure. Guy had no big cash to lay it. Guy who owned it rang a mate and not long after it was withdrawn

Guy with ACCA well pleased

Regbutler24 Jun 23 12:18Joined: 09 Mar 21 | Topic/replies: 693 | Blogger: Regbutler's blog
Back in the 90s there was an independent bookie in Bath that I used...

Reg - just curious, was that G.I.Davies?

Can't remember the name, TM
Was very close to the centre of Bath, you could park outside back then
It was either the ground floor and/or basement of a large Victorian or the like building with flats above

Sounds like it might have been Reg. No worries. Thanks.

Perhaps my example was too complicated. Take a scenario which might have happened this week. Punter (not me)  puts a tenner on Saga at 5-1. It goes out to 10-1 and punter takes a generous cash out of £8. Let us imagine Saga does not run. Is bookie entitled to retain the punter's £2 now that Saga has become a non runner? I say not.

Eddie - I get your point - but if I was the (unscrupulous) book concerned, I would argue that I had factored the NR possibility into my offer.

Similar argument...
You've taken the offer, that's it, imo

It staggers me that so many people still believe the bookie bastards are running a morally sound business..with punter friendly fairness set as their main priority..

Ultimately, the very moment U opt to sell away your rights to something you own(which includes cashing out), your right to its value(current or future) is LOST.

I’d not heard that one before, Freddie. A nice touch from the owner.

Your scenario will be a fairly common one, Eddie. People will be cashing out all kinds of bets each day where a late withdrawal after cashing out would’ve seen them pocket more money. It would be a bit of a fecker when it happens but people will more than likely be berating themselves rather than the bookies.

I totally understand your point though.

Here's a problem : Say you are lucky enough one day to have 3 decent priced winners in a Yankee. Let's say the cashout is £4782

Now your last horse is evens or something: And your betfair balance is low, and you can't Lay. Now, Cashout or partial cashout is an option. And also, not many accounts will let you deposit a big sum all at once.

ProSniper, You are a fool. I am not surprised you are staggering, you have probably had one too many.Why don't you apply your brain if you have one to addressing the problem instead of making snide and stupid remarks. If people like you stopped to think instead of thinking what you are told to think  this country might not be in such a mess.

Cash out is what the bet is worth to the bookmaker AT THAT TIME. You have to forget what happens after you press cash out ( n/rs, deductions etc) as none of it applies to you.

It is obvious to me that the rule that cash out is final has been written on the assumption that the selection will run and that no consideration has been given to the possibility that it might not. I note that the Betfair Exchange offers cash out. I cannot imagine that a nom runner would offer any benefit to either party of such a transaction.

On the  bookmakers "side". If before the  race 4 horses were  withdrawn the 2/1 fav then could be 4/7. cash out then  wouldn't be £600. But you  would expect £600.Plenty other scenarios in  the  bookmakers or punters  favour. "FOOT NOTE" BET 365. AS  A GOOD WILL JESTER MIGHT PAY YOU OUT. On some occasions with me they  have

(4 Non runners including the  fav.

Doesn't it work the same on the exchange? Let's say you lay 2.0 and BSP is 3.0 but the horse is withdrawn so you get nothing. If you cash out at 3.0, you don't care that the horse was withdrawn because you get paid.

Cash Out. Eddie. Oxford Dictionary.(Phrasal Verb)Cash Out. To add the amount of money that has been received  in a store, club, bet365  e.t.c. (example)
Especially at the end of the day. The men broke into the  office while staff were "CASHING OUT". Eddie "in a nutshell" you have  been robbed.

Gaze - how do you get paid?  If your horse is a NR both your lay at 2.0 and your back at 3.0 get voided.

If the 5th leg is on the jolly, more than likely that was
a strong fancy in the Acca anyway.Why cash out?
Also if cashed out before the N/R why moan?
Doesn't that cash out money go in the account straight away?

longbridge it's been a while since I did a swing trade but IIRC when you cash out, you get the money immediately, including the profit from the trade

Lets throw another spanner into the works. Suppose it was an ante post acca NOT NRNB. You cash out with one to go and it gets withdrawn at the start. Happy days for the punter and unfortunate for the bookie.............

Gaze - Not how it works on the Exch in my experience - you get your stake back immediately as the Cash Out pair of bets has zero exposure but you only get your 'winnings' when the bet settles.

All Cash Out does is automate laying your backs or backing your lays (etc) so it's no different from placing the bets yourself - bets on NRs are still voided.

KNOCK, KNOCK.

Bookie: Who's there?
   
EDDIE-D

Bookie: EDDIE-D who?

EDDIE-D-EEGIT

Bookie: What do you want?

I want excellent terms on your cashout offers. Terms that are punter friendly and give ME a 1-up instead of U.

Bookie: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Now I understand your handle. Ciao Mr EEGIT

Gaze733, I very much doubt it. I think all such transactions on the Exchange would be declared void.

Let's be clear all. I am not asking for special treatment for either the punter or the bookie. I am just advocating what is fair. In the case of a non runner all cash outs on that selection should be declared void. Who can say in advance who is to profit from that and how is it not a fair rule? It complies with the principle that one cannot gain an advantage from a non runner Surely you all know that if an event is void all stakes are returned even ante post bets which were otherwise lost.

Imo a cash out is the sum available at that time, offered by the bookmaker, for the punter to accept or reject. It doesn't matter what happens after that, if the cash out is taken. The horse being a non runner or the football match getting abandoned, it makes no difference, if the money is taken. Its unlucky for you but if you were happy enough to take the money, imo there is no point crying afterwards that you feel hard done by.

I have never cashed out a bet but if my last leg was 5/1 and the bookie offered me a £600 cash out and the evens fav becomes a non runner should the bookie be able to take some money back?I would hope not.

In essence they are buying your bet, if you sell them it, you can't really ask for it back because circumstances have changed.

"or the football match getting abandoned, it makes no difference" BUT it does make a difference. If I place an ante post bet on say the Eider Chase and my selection does not pass the forfeit stage so that we know in advance that it is a non runner yet the meeting becomes abandoned because of frost, how many people KNOW that my stake has to be refunded. So it is untrue to say that what happens AT THE TIME is conclusive.

In cash out it's 100% relevant, you are accepting a cash offer for your bet at that time.what has ante post rules got to do with anything ?
10 team accer on the footie, 9 up, you accepting the offer, with the last game still a draw. The opposing team gets 2 players sent off, is that cash out still fair.
Is second agains example fair.
Imo you have absolutely no argument here to get paid the extra.

I have never cashed out a bet but if my last leg was 5/1 and the bookie offered me a £600 cash out and the evens fav becomes a non runner should the bookie be able to take some money back?I would hope not.

That is a fair point which is why I chose to offer a simpler example.

To answer your point I think in theory he would seek to take something back as a kinda retrospective rule 4 but in practice would decline to do so for the purposes of goodwill. However for all the times when a favourite is withdrawn there would be multiple times when it was other than the favourite.

You should listen to The Dealer Eddie,exactly as he says,the bookie is buying your bet.Pre-Cash Out you would have got what the bet was worth at the fourth horse,had your last run and got beaten you would have got nothing.Before the process was called cash out,mainly accounts held with indy's would probably have been offered to settle on the four winners,the High Street may have done depending on the liability but on your example probably not.

It is a concession not a right.

"what has ante post rules got to do with anything?"
Well, it is an illustration that what appears to be final may not be so. If a horse is withdrawn after an ante post bet has been placed on it, most of the blinkered people on here would be saying too bad -  that is a loser and being UNAWARE that you are entitled to a refund. So it is not necessarily true that cash out is final if the horse does not race.

Does blinkered people, just mean people who don't agree with you,

Regarding ante post rules, I think your assumption that people don't know them, is very wide of the mark.

Only my opinion of course.

Once a cash out has been taken the bet's over,finished,regardless
if the last leg wins,loses or is a N/R.

Ante Post is final if a horse is not declared at the final decs,the only exception being an abandoned meeting and even then if the meeting is re-arranged still a loser.As for cash out,as soon as accepted it is final.

The only way you get A/Post stakes refunded on a rnr is if it's balloted out.
Or meeting abandoned.

At the risk of after timing,I cashed out 3 bets yesterday after the first 3 at Ponty won,ew accas 4,5 ,6 & 7 fold.Each cash out being final as soon as pressing the confirm button,the 4th horse was second but even if it had won I would still have had the accas running having done 2 of each acca for the simple reason of cash out potential and keeping below payout limits.

The cash outs paid 151/1 (7fold),187/1 (5 fold) and 37/1 4 fold,left the 6 folds and the ew yankee,the yankee was offered at approx 349/1.

Imo a cash out is the sum available at that time, offered by the bookmaker, for the punter to accept or reject. It doesn't matter what happens after that, if the cash out is taken. The horse being a non runner or the football match getting abandoned, it makes no difference, if the money is taken. Its unlucky for you but if you were happy enough to take the money, imo there is no point crying afterwards that you feel hard done by.


Thank Feck for that Tom, thats what I  have been saying / Trying to say from day 1. What part is hard to understand from " Whatever happens after your cash out is totally meaningless and irrelavant. !!!

You have taken what you assume to be the best deal for you AT THAT TIME.  Thats me out now , fed up.

* Irrelevant.

"If the last leg wins,loses or is a N/R." Tell me whose rule specifies a N/R.

"If the last leg wins,loses or is a N/R." Tell me whose rule specifies a N/R.


     [img]https://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/glasgowcalling/7...

Is that a Glasgow dartboard?

"and even then if the meeting is re-arranged still a loser" I think individual punters have to be given an option as to whether or not AP bets should stand.

Why not suggest that bookies put on bets for punters who have lost ante post Eddie?

Makes as much sense as anything you have said so far..........registered charity numbers mandatory!!

This is my last word. If cash out is void for a non runner on the Exchange it has to be the same as between punter and bookie.

This is my last word. If cash out becomes void on the Exchange (which it does) it should be the same as between punter and bookie.