Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
The first UK World Pool day of 2023 (where 26 countries bet into the Tote pool) is at Newmarket this Saturday so there will be huge value for bettors.
Also a minimum Placepot of £250,000 as well.
For more about World Pool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeurdeT-z0g
Also a minimum Placepot of £250,000 as well.
For more about World Pool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeurdeT-z0g
Show More
What is the take out for the win pools and the placepot?Is there any seeding going on this weekend?If so what pools?
Why don't the Tote declare how many units they are " Buying" in each pool.? .. Sounds bordering on illegal to me, just another bunch of posh spivs.
World Pool stats from Guineas day 2022:
· Total pool size over £22 million in 2022 vs £14.1 million in 2021
· Win beat SP in three of the 8 races
· Win overround was 104% vs SP overround of 115%
· 2000 Guineas winner Coroebus was Win 7.70 vs 5/1 SP (+28%)
· Exacta beat forecast on seven out of 8 races
· Total pool size over £22 million in 2022 vs £14.1 million in 2021
· Win beat SP in three of the 8 races
· Win overround was 104% vs SP overround of 115%
· 2000 Guineas winner Coroebus was Win 7.70 vs 5/1 SP (+28%)
· Exacta beat forecast on seven out of 8 races
[img]https://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/glasgowcalling/e...
So the world pool is run legitimately westberks. Nice to know you aren’t corrupting that as well as the normal SP when you are running it yourselves is just an industry sp return. I make the point, as you are quick to point out what value the punter is getting on world pool, however not when you are running the day to day tote return .
Estimatefd £27,000,000 will be played into the pools at Newmarket today (Lottery is only £20M!)
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz YAWN ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Amazing the difference in tote win prices a few secs pre-off and declared after the result and sp cuts ditto to provide absolutely no value at all. Seem to magically follow the exchange prices on here if there is a collapse late on.
Garbage and pointless. Skimmed to oblivion.
Garbage and pointless. Skimmed to oblivion.
Tote just running an industry SP return. Same model as the awful Chester bet
SP is a minimum guarantee.
Race 2 @ Newmarket: £3.3m
Total turnover after two races - £6.3m (...which is somehow awful, I know)
Race 2 @ Newmarket: £3.3m
Total turnover after two races - £6.3m (...which is somehow awful, I know)
6.4 at off so i bet it
returns 4.5 sp and amazingly the tote price is 4.5 bumped to 4.7. bigger on the exchange
can you see why a win backer will not bother again?
do you understand long term? gloating about take from mugs who haven't realised yet is unbecoming
gloat while you can
returns 4.5 sp and amazingly the tote price is 4.5 bumped to 4.7. bigger on the exchange
can you see why a win backer will not bother again?
do you understand long term? gloating about take from mugs who haven't realised yet is unbecoming
gloat while you can
the 3 mill is not yours berks. you probably earned a tenner 
R3 £3.5m. Total after three races, £9.8m. Big overpays vs SP across the board in that race.
Do race 4 now. winner paid SP (again), exacta well under the terrible value CSF, trifecta paid just over half the Tricast, which is shockingly bad value.
But at least all the multi millionaire owners get their big bonuses, and all the staff and shills get paid too.
Where as the punters get completely ripped off, if they are lucky enough to not have their account closed for daring to deposit more than £100.
WALOFS
But at least all the multi millionaire owners get their big bonuses, and all the staff and shills get paid too.
Where as the punters get completely ripped off, if they are lucky enough to not have their account closed for daring to deposit more than £100.
WALOFS
Nice to see a fair few more are realising what a complete Rip Off this group of ex city traders / IT whizkids have turned the Tote into, flying in the face of all what the Tote was first meant to achieve.
All Berksies highlighting of these scammers just turns more people away, keep it up Berky.
All Berksies highlighting of these scammers just turns more people away, keep it up Berky.
westberks 06 May 23 14:56 Joined: 08 May 08 | Topic/replies: 176 | Blogger: westberks's blog
SP is a minimum guarantee.
Race 2 @ Newmarket: £3.3m
Total turnover after two races - £6.3m (...which is somehow awful, I know)
The last time the world pool was run as memory serves me, it had different returns on SP compared with the industry return.
Today you are manipulating like the day to day tote return is manipulated and we are just dealing with an industry SP return, even with like you say 3.3 million in the pool.
Despicable stuff. A horrible situation for punters and should be looked at by the gambling commission
SP is a minimum guarantee.
Race 2 @ Newmarket: £3.3m
Total turnover after two races - £6.3m (...which is somehow awful, I know)
The last time the world pool was run as memory serves me, it had different returns on SP compared with the industry return.
Today you are manipulating like the day to day tote return is manipulated and we are just dealing with an industry SP return, even with like you say 3.3 million in the pool.
Despicable stuff. A horrible situation for punters and should be looked at by the gambling commission
2000 Guineas turnover - £4.7m
Total turnover so far - £21.8m
Awful for racing: https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/
Total turnover so far - £21.8m
Awful for racing: https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/
Good for racing ( well for some of the tracks)
Fantastic for tote executives and stakeholders ££££££
Great for people who get paid to promote a product ££££
Awful for genuine punters. No one cares how much money is in the pool, the dividends are often poor. With the 10% added, they were plausible, with 5% added they are still not great, though majority of people can’t even get that, as they deliberately have their accounts closed and are forced to bet through other outlets where they get the bog standard poor value dividend. Absolute rip off. Tote closes more accounts than any other betting company, and that’s not even mentioning all the seeding and meddling with the pools.
Stop trying to make out you are the saviours. You may well be bringing money into racing, though you are absolutely ripping off punters with your shenanigans. This is the worst incarnation of the tote ever. The only people supporting it are all on the take.
Fantastic for tote executives and stakeholders ££££££
Great for people who get paid to promote a product ££££
Awful for genuine punters. No one cares how much money is in the pool, the dividends are often poor. With the 10% added, they were plausible, with 5% added they are still not great, though majority of people can’t even get that, as they deliberately have their accounts closed and are forced to bet through other outlets where they get the bog standard poor value dividend. Absolute rip off. Tote closes more accounts than any other betting company, and that’s not even mentioning all the seeding and meddling with the pools.
Stop trying to make out you are the saviours. You may well be bringing money into racing, though you are absolutely ripping off punters with your shenanigans. This is the worst incarnation of the tote ever. The only people supporting it are all on the take.
You may well be bringing money into racing
They only contribute a paltry amount booster. The only time they contribute is through world pool otherwise it’s just take take take from the whole game
They only contribute a paltry amount booster. The only time they contribute is through world pool otherwise it’s just take take take from the whole game
Something well amiss with these Pools 30 % of pool on Jollies yesterday at thirsk , No non runners in the races,Not the 1st time I have seen it
(Sorry to disappoint) but another record day: https://worldpool.hkjc.com/news-content.aspx?in_file=20230508115000.html&b_c... ...next up Saturday 20th May Newbury (races 3 and 4) & Saturday 3rd June Epsom (whole day)
[img]https://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/glasgowcalling/e...
Must be a great time to be a tote shill.
It really must, they gotta be earning plenty, dont think there is a single person in the racing media who isnt on the the tote payroll. They all get paid, punters all get rinsed.
Record rinsing of mug punters.
It really must, they gotta be earning plenty, dont think there is a single person in the racing media who isnt on the the tote payroll. They all get paid, punters all get rinsed.
Record rinsing of mug punters.
The tote was great years ago you could back a 16/1 winner and get 25/1 return now you get the sp, i have been with them for over 40 years but about 9 months ago i had a bet with them i had two bets on a 2mile hurdle race one bet won i waited no money came so the following day i rung them up and they said it went on to late so they never paid out when i put a bet on and it is late you are stopped from putting it on or warned void bet to late not the tote they take your bet and you have to ring them up the following day to see why you are not paid outwill not be betting again with them
Do they still put bets in after the result is known I know they got found out back in the 80s
The tote prices against this exchange's prices are embarrassing.
People will cotton on and the gloating will cease when they come to take the furniture away in Berks office.
People will cotton on and the gloating will cease when they come to take the furniture away in Berks office.
If any fraudulent manipulation of the dividends gets found out then the coppers will follow in the furniture men through the door
The allowance by tptb to seed their own markets during covid was a godsend for Totey bowlocks but they have milked that cow to oblivion.
I do hope it's all above board.
The allowance by tptb to seed their own markets during covid was a godsend for Totey bowlocks but they have milked that cow to oblivion.
I do hope it's all above board.
^ PMSL. Baldy was 'at it' with the Tote for years. NOTHING WILL BE DONE.
Well nowt will be done with that attitude ^^
I want to know one thing
Why is seeding the pools allowed (at the last minute I'm guessing looking at tote odds guide and actual returned) when it was introduced because of no crowds at the track during covid.
This was a fair move in most people's opinion
But now, tracks/pool terminals are open now, so why is seeding/punting into their own pools still allowed?
I want to know one thing
Why is seeding the pools allowed (at the last minute I'm guessing looking at tote odds guide and actual returned) when it was introduced because of no crowds at the track during covid.
This was a fair move in most people's opinion
But now, tracks/pool terminals are open now, so why is seeding/punting into their own pools still allowed?
Dear ....
Thank you for contacting the Gambling Commission about the Tote who operate under the licence TDCO Limited.
You have contacted us to check if it is legal for a gambling business to buy tickets in its own pool.
Thank you for raising this matter with us.
By way of background, gambling businesses are required to be transparent and operate fairs terms and practices for its customers. I have added a link to the relevant information on our website below which you should find helpful to review.
Customers knowledge of who they are participating against - Gambling Commission
While it is not illegal for them to participate in their own pool, it must be made clear in their terms and conditions that they do so. This is so the customer can make an informed decision as to whether they want to place bets under those terms. Having reviewed the gambling business's terms and conditions, there is information regarding this within section 14.8
It is not clear from your correspondence whether you have a specific dispute regarding a bet you placed with the Tote, but I understand that you have contacted the gambling business for information regarding this matter.
There you go, it seems so long as you have it in your Ts+Cs you can do what you want.
Thank you for contacting the Gambling Commission about the Tote who operate under the licence TDCO Limited.
You have contacted us to check if it is legal for a gambling business to buy tickets in its own pool.
Thank you for raising this matter with us.
By way of background, gambling businesses are required to be transparent and operate fairs terms and practices for its customers. I have added a link to the relevant information on our website below which you should find helpful to review.
Customers knowledge of who they are participating against - Gambling Commission
While it is not illegal for them to participate in their own pool, it must be made clear in their terms and conditions that they do so. This is so the customer can make an informed decision as to whether they want to place bets under those terms. Having reviewed the gambling business's terms and conditions, there is information regarding this within section 14.8
It is not clear from your correspondence whether you have a specific dispute regarding a bet you placed with the Tote, but I understand that you have contacted the gambling business for information regarding this matter.
There you go, it seems so long as you have it in your Ts+Cs you can do what you want.
Posted this on the Chester PP thread
If the Tote themselves are purchasing 50,000 tickets in their own pool, then they know the details of every one of those 50,000 tickets. That's insider trading in my book. It's not form book skill, it's a numbers game where the Tote is just creaming off an extra 5-15% for the house because they are playing in their own pools for nothing, when no one else can, taking advantage of the fact that they know the details of half the tickets in the pool so they have every permutation covered. It's a scandal (I'm pretty sure westberks is totally unaware) The skill, such as it is, is in the weighting of the permutations, relating to the size of the pool and the place prices just before kick off in the first race. They absolutely cannot lose in the long run. I'd imagine they win extra 8-9 times out of 10, the advantage is that big.
To give you a simple example, imagine a sweepstake in the Grand National where every horse has an equal chance. The Tote buys 40 tickets and punters buy 40 tickets. The Tote picks every horse in the race because it know the details of the other 39 tickets. The first punter picks a horse, but the second punter has no idea what the first punter has picked. After 40 horses are picked on average 15 of the horses remain unpicked. If one of those 15 horses win the Tote wins the whole pot. The punters can't win the whole pot because the Tote has every horse. When they do win they have to share it with The Tote. That's basically what is happening and punters are blissfully unaware. It's like The Government putting up the tax rate by 10% and nobody realises they have.
So hopefully westberks you now understand what is happening and your conscience stops you from posting on here again. Not only are the punters returns reduced on average, but the chances of a "lucky" big win are reduced because the Tote has everything realistic covered in it's 50,000 tickets. So this "£100k guarantee" far from increasing the chances of a big win as it's intended to imply, greatly reduces it.
If the Tote themselves are purchasing 50,000 tickets in their own pool, then they know the details of every one of those 50,000 tickets. That's insider trading in my book. It's not form book skill, it's a numbers game where the Tote is just creaming off an extra 5-15% for the house because they are playing in their own pools for nothing, when no one else can, taking advantage of the fact that they know the details of half the tickets in the pool so they have every permutation covered. It's a scandal (I'm pretty sure westberks is totally unaware) The skill, such as it is, is in the weighting of the permutations, relating to the size of the pool and the place prices just before kick off in the first race. They absolutely cannot lose in the long run. I'd imagine they win extra 8-9 times out of 10, the advantage is that big.
To give you a simple example, imagine a sweepstake in the Grand National where every horse has an equal chance. The Tote buys 40 tickets and punters buy 40 tickets. The Tote picks every horse in the race because it know the details of the other 39 tickets. The first punter picks a horse, but the second punter has no idea what the first punter has picked. After 40 horses are picked on average 15 of the horses remain unpicked. If one of those 15 horses win the Tote wins the whole pot. The punters can't win the whole pot because the Tote has every horse. When they do win they have to share it with The Tote. That's basically what is happening and punters are blissfully unaware. It's like The Government putting up the tax rate by 10% and nobody realises they have.
So hopefully westberks you now understand what is happening and your conscience stops you from posting on here again. Not only are the punters returns reduced on average, but the chances of a "lucky" big win are reduced because the Tote has everything realistic covered in it's 50,000 tickets. So this "£100k guarantee" far from increasing the chances of a big win as it's intended to imply, greatly reduces it.
So hopefully westberks you now understand what is happening and your conscience stops you from posting on here again. Not only are the punters returns reduced on average, but the chances of a "lucky" big win are reduced because the Tote has everything realistic covered in it's 50,000 tickets. So this "£100k guarantee" far from increasing the chances of a big win as it's intended to imply, greatly reduces it.
My main gripe as well CB, well said.
My main gripe as well CB, well said.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539