The derby

They slaughtered the Derby when they moved it to Saturday, but they thought they knew best.

It's one of those classic (pun intended) self inflicted problems that racing is so good at inflicting upon itself.

On a Wednesday - it was the main event - the sporting highlight of the day.

It was all good, So to create a problem - move it to a Saturday, where it is competing with any number of other (sadly) increasingly more popular sporting events.

Their answer to the new problem they have unnecessarily self-created - now move the time of the race so it doesn't clash with the other sporting events we have purposely aligned it with - Only in racing!

In 1968 in relative terms racing was a much bigger deal than what it is now. Yes, the wider public still embrace the National with a once a year flutter, but the Derby? So much of flat racing is about what happens after they retire with many, if not most top horses, not even running ten times in a career.   

Does the start time really matter that much? Would it really affect the horses if it started at 1.30 instead of 4.30?

I wouldn't be too sure that "the wider public still embrace the National". I would doubt if the race will even exist in the not too distant future.

I wouldn’t think it would affect the horses differentdrum

The derby should go back to a Wednesday most who care about the race know that unfortunately those who run racing don’t really care

I wouldn’t go that far sparrow but I do think the national will be unrecognisable.

It already is unrecognisable to us that grew up with the race jimnast.

Silly phrases like "That will have boosted his confidence" after a flat horse wins a race pale in comparison with DD's assumption that horses know the time of day imvho!!

Yes it is sparrow

First race of the day
Nice ground guaranteed
Aiden will be licking his
LIPS

Just when you think they cant feck things up much more now this. Didn't the national used to be run at 3.45 h/t, surely this cant be a good idea for betting turnover or keeping the punters on course.

It's so so different to the Grand National , 99% of non regular punters wouldn't give a damn if it wasn't run at all never mind what time of day.

On a personal front i'll watch the Derby at 1.30pm and miss Soccer as i always do , so no effect here.

As for all these growing comments about a horse's intelligence and knowing the time of day , do me a favour.

Good luck today all   

1304 hrs Hayden!!! Favour done.

our picnic will need to start at about 9.30am!!

given the lethargy in starting races on time, even with a 1.30pm start time, it may still clash with Wembley :-)

With regards to horses and time of day .Allways wondered why they where trained @ the crack of dawn yet race in afternoon or evenings.

I have not factored in Just Stop Racing/Oil/Traffic/ Fun/ Gambling protests. Should be off at about HT at the footy

Hopefully by then Donegal most will be locked up after the coronation the animal lovers latest plan is to set of rape alarms to spook the horses during the parade.

Remember the fire works last year?

That blue riband trial made zero sense to me.

So you run the favourite to pick up experience of the track for the big day…and then you bring him stand side?

Like anyone’s really doubt that in a derby.

The public dont care about the Derby much now.

I'm not sure the Derby can maintain its status even within the racing world going forward. I have a feeling Coolmore's PR machine kept it in teh spotlight while they had the likes of Montjeu and Galileo offspring farming it. Let's hope they get another of their ilk soon to keep their interest in it.

Trident 26 Apr 23 14:18 
The public dont care about the Derby much now.






Because it was allowed to disappear amongst all other sports on a Saturday.

Brilliant,the brains that run our sport! I bet there will be fewer people watching at home than if the

race was run at the same time as the Cup Final.

Can't see it being much fun for anyone attending with the big event over before you know it,but who cares about racegoers? maybe it could get a Sunday night slot which the BHA are proposing?

Would surely make more sense to run the Derby at 4pm during half time, if it has to be moved to fit in with a football match that nobody outside Manchester cares about.

Most of our courses are Restaurants/bars with racing as a side show.

I saw that Jimnast. Quite extraordinary isn't it. One can but hope that, gradually, they will lose what little sympathy they have from the public. But it only requires 3 or 4 eejits. The idea that they can devalue rape alarms and risk injury to horses and the public is astounding. One of those big Household Cavalry horses could kill a dozen people if it were to get lose and bolt.

It appears to come down to ITV schedule which is ridiculous given they purport to be promoting the sport but willing to sacrifice the biggest flat race for a few Mancunians,as Alan alludes to,the FA Cup lost it's lustre long ago.

Anyone know,was it the BHA's decision or Epsom's?

Yes they did JJmbe, I was at Villa Park in 1991 watching them play Man Utd and I remember listening to Seagram beat Garison Savannah on my radio at half time. I'd completely forgotten about that until you mentioned it.

I agree with that post of roggrain

Regarding more watching at the same time as the cup final than at 130 what an incredible decision by those who run our sport.

This Harrington character who is now in charge of the bha/sport does she like horse racing?

I've e-mailed the BHA telling them my thoughts and saying that it's not too late to change the time.

I really don't understand this early nonsense - next week's 2000 Guineas
will be run at 4:40pm 'cos some big-eared pal of a páedo is getting a
silly hat wedged to his cranium, so why would a similar time NOT be
considered for Epsom?

Hasn't anyone asked why they couldn't have scheduled the UK's biggest race
after 5pm so even in the event of extra time there'd still be no clash?

That would've been far more sensible but as ever in racing, it
seems common sense is frowned upon. As ever, no explanation is required.


Regardless of it being an all Manc affair, it was still an FA Cup Final,
meaning that about 10 million people would be likely to tune in.

This is rank stupidity which is sadly par for the course and the gobshíte
who's decided this will likely remain anonymous - whatever happened
to that game of 'name & shame' that these fcukers in charge like to play
will us minions? That only seems to go one way

Could you email them again please and point out if there plans to start summer racing at the small tracks at 10 am in the morning goes ahead they will lose many racegoers and tracks will close.

geoff, they train horses very early in the mornings so it doesn't clash with race meetings.  Trainers can be up supervising horses work (along with their staff), then have time to travel to afternoon race meetings.  Also jockeys can then ride horses in their work before going to ride in races.

Arguably Premier football is a unique case, but most sporting events have been diluted in focus. Arguably, very recently. You could name any number of them. The Ashes, 5/6 nations, Wimbledon, football internationals, The Open, The Masters, Grand Prix, Snooker World's and Masters. Boxing. Even the Olympics and World athletics. I don't care about most of them now myself nowadays tbh. Hard to put a finger on exactly why, a lot of them seem to have been hollowed out of personalities, and of course put behind a paywall. And infected by politics.

For example, the 2005 Ashes gripped the nation. That just would not happen in 2023.

18 million people watched Taylor vs Davis.

Chicken / egg I guess but arguably the Derby was moved because of the disintegration of interest. Rather than it was moved and then lost interest.

I never went to a Wednesday derby that wasn’t very very busy and it was also on the morning and evening news bulletins.

I'm arguing that it has simply followed the collapse of interest in most of the big sporting events in the calendar. Personally I don't believe it would make a material difference what day it was run on or what time. However, for the people who are interested in it, 1.30pm is too early as the centrepiece race.

The Derby will always be important to the Racing fans but for most of the general public what made it special was the Wednesday (with little sporting competition) .

Can you imagine the Aussies changing the Melbourne Cup from a Tuesday.

The better example would be if the CGC was moved to Saturday. Wouldn't make any difference in a sense of diminishing interest. And we have an actual example since ascot heath was changed to an official day of RA. No different to the other weekdays.

Huge difference royal ascot Saturday is a massive success with many young people turning up amongst them many Australians

The derby on a Saturday has not been a success in anyway.

Easy to give the authorities a good kicking, most of the time it's deserved. And I find myself agreeing with what jimnast posts in the vast majority of instances. But the apparent disintegration of the Derby is mostly due to changing times (and not race times or days) in my view.

Those who remember the jockey club probably didn’t have a lot of time for them cider me included but given the chance for them to run the sport again I would grab it.

For many Londoners it was an unofficial bank holiday outing on the Wednesday as the hundreds of coaches lined up parked showed. Yes times do change but the Derby was the flat race of the season and should never have moved in 1968 at the very least.

Indeed…my dad took me out of school to go see Slip Anchor.

Sparrow 1968 ?

Yes they did Sparrow. We kids, all 6 of us, always were off school and had a picnic with my parents in the middle of the course along with literally many tens of thousands of others. The first one I can vividly remember being at was Snow Knight winning in 1974.

Yet another erosion of racing's status in the media world.  Deplorable.

jimnast 26 Apr 23 17:58 
Sparrow 1968 ?






Apologies of course jimnast,  don't know where I got that from as it was 1994.

The 1968 derby day was the greatest day in my team’s history the team relaxed during the afternoon watching the great race and it wasn’t the first Wednesday in June it was the last Wednesday in may that year.

Brian Kidd's birthday as I recall?  Sir Bobby absolutely brilliant - skidding a header in with his shiny bit just to tell us all he could!.

Well remembered honcho it was his 19 th birthday the third came from Brian the crowd roared for more so Bobby obliged them by making it four.

As brilliant as Bobby was the man of the match was johnny Aston.

remember watching that with Dad Jimnast. Though we were Everton fans, he was keen on Utd winning that game as Matt Busby had lived for a good while in the  road dad lived in as a boy. Dad was prepared to overlook Matt's decision to play for Liverpool on account of Matt being a devout Catholic (my Dad made the Pope look like an atheist). It was the last footy game we watched in black and white before Dad splashed out on a colour telly. Aston was immense that night.

Get Derby on before the Derby at wembley
and hope folk don't turn over.

Ratings, innit.

You should have got your colour tele a few weeks earlier Donegal as Everton were in the cup final ,

On a serious note I think most of the country that night wanted united to win ,my dad was a city fan but I know he really wanted united the trophy,perhaps more just put the country first back then I know now the minority would want an English team to win the European cup.

beaten by WBA. Jeff Astle. We had beaten them twice that season by an aggregate of about 7 or 8. dad was pessimistic as he had this theory that nobody beats the same opposition 3 times in a season (he would need to change that now with the  mega -rich Premier super clubs). Everton played in Old Gold and WBA in white, so the black  and white wasn't too much of a problem. Never knew why they both changed kit.

Well that’s interesting although I remember them both playing in them colours,and back then it would have had nothing to do with shirt sales.

Agreed, Aston was a standout but the whole team did a great job.
Stepney!  I still can;t believe Eusebio's brilliant sportsmanship in congratulating him.

Alex Stepney on Eusebio: "My Wembley save ended his European Cup dream - but he stood and applauded me."

The Derby is still a stellar event in the racing world , despite some dreadful renewals(Serpentine  , Adayar for two)  and winners who often we rarely if ever see again.

Outside of racing it is zero interest to fans of football ,golf , cricket , rugby .

It should be run at 6pm not 1-30 pm .......the idiots in charge I would not trust to water my plants.............

And now the trains won't be running as the drivers are striking

Train Strike announced for Derby and Cup Final Day.

There’s a lot of ungrateful people in this country.

Honcho

Remarkable sportsmanship from Eusebio times were so different then ,the United players travelled by train after making there own way to Piccadilly station by bus ,walking or by getting a lift ,on the train were many supporters who were also travelling to Wembley ,none of the players had headphones on .