Ways to improve national safety

if they stiffened fences up and told nobody there would be carnage ,jocks,trainers,training horse to jump through the birch not over it ,big bold jumpers have less chance conceding lengths to those jumping through the birch and fence

3 - I disagree.  The "100 races" qualifcation would be enough to stop the inexperienced - no need to stop the likes of Mullins or Codd riding.

So scrap the Foxhunters as well?

Longbridge .you can always make a case for the odd case,but it’s the main race,main shop window of racing,the general public don’t know that code and Mullins are good jockeys,it’s the premier event,having mr riding make it look like a farmers race,they ve got plenty of other races.

It’s about making it as safe as possible,so only let the best and qualified run in it.same too for the horses,

JUST SO - (or- Just Slow as this Heavy ground/Marathon distance Chaser was affectionately Nicknamed) - would have been one of the most Popular 'Out of the Handicap' Winners, ever ...

When 2nd to Freddie Starr's Winner  ...

- and - carrying 3 lb Overweight too - on top of being 22 lb 'out of the handicap' as well.

Must be one of the greatest ever 'near-misses'. 


3:50 Aintree

9 Apr 1994

Martell Grand National Chase Handicap Grade 3

1st £115,606 2nd £43,354 3rd £21,277

4m4f omsGN Heavy 30 fences



Miinnehoma  16/1   R Dunwoody   M C Pipe  11-10-8    153 97 150
   
Never far away, left in lead 17th, headed approaching 20th, mistake 22nd (becher's), regained lead next, headed 25th, led 4 out to 3 out, remained upsides and going well, cruised into lead flat, ran on under pressure towards finish

2nd  1¼lngth  Just So  20/1   S Burrough   H T Cole  11-10-3  Over-Weight 3  Out-of-Handicap 22 148 91 144   
   
Behind 1st circuit, good headway from 18th, prominent 20th, led 25th (valentine's) to 4 out, ridden and jumped slowly 2 out, outpaced before last, stayed on to renew challenge from elbow, unable to quicken towards finish

It’s not about galant popular jockeys or horses,the fact is,if they are out of the hcp,you are asking more of a horse than it should be doing,then if it dies .racing leaves  themselves open to critics.

It’s either a top class race highlighting the best of the sport,or a bit of fun anyone can join in.

Given its the only race most people watch,then make it for the elite.

Just So had hooves like dinner plates.

comingupthehill 16 Apr 23 18:08 

It’s either a top class race highlighting the best of the sport,or a bit of fun anyone can join in.

Given its the only race most people watch, then make it for the elite.
--------------

- and - [/b]"make it for the elite."[/b] ...


Is PRECISELY what has Ruined all the previously well-anticipated Top FLAT HANDICAPS ... such as the Royal Hunt Cup - Wokingham Handicap - Stewards' Cup - etc  -

- by turning them all into 'Quasi Listed races'  - with a consequent NARROW weight-range band - that. predominately, suits the likes of Godolphin, Qatar Racing, and the rest of the Arab mob....

- and they are longer the 'Big Races' in long-standing Racegoers and the Public punters eyes

Number of runners is more important than any of the above which I find too complicated. There was only barely enough room for 30 to jump upsides yesterday and it only takes a couple to veer off a straight line to cause chaos. Smaller fences would only encourage more early speed.

I was only talking about 1 race the national,the race non race fans watch,

Sell the product/justify horse welfare,

The flat races above you quote,have evolved that way,it’s a separate issue,

It’s more to do with safety,than quality,but clearly,it will be more safe if more qualified people/horses  run in it.

Effectively farmer Giles could have a runner,a stone out of the hcp,with the farmyard pet horse,ridden by his son in his first ride,after telling itv,he was milking the cows this morning,and had to rush to get to the track,it drops dead at the chair in front of stand and tv,and worst still so does his son,
Imagine the fallout.

If racing accepts deaths,which it has to,then only professional people with proven horses should be allowed to run given the media coverage of this 1 particular race,

Farmer Giles can run in loads of other races,but not this race given its popularity.

Sage form ,totally disagree,been 40 for years,

100% certainty if reduced to 30,horse dies at first fence.

2 others died at aintree not in 40 runner races.

The 40 spectacle is 1 of the main attractions of the race.
The track can cope,has done for 175 years.

So reduce it to 20 runners,10 out of the hcp,with 6 trainers wife’s riding for the first time,3 of whom have run in 10 races each,and fell every time,

See the problem

Aintree entry rules.
1.can a horse run that has fell in its last 6 races - yes
1.can a jockey ride having his first ride- yes
Can a horse run carrying 2stone more than it should- yes

Horses die.

Aintree,these horse are cared for in the best possible way,where safety is paramount,we take horse welfare seriously.all efforts are made to reduce risks,
We didn’t think a horse 2 stone out of the hcp ,who had fallen in its last 6 races,ridden by the owners mate out of the pub would of died,

Waley-Cohen has a much better record over the fences than many professionals.

If you tinker with the race any further it just moves closer and closer to being another long race with a big field. Arguably, it has already gone past that point. The more you lower the fences the faster horses will go. 

I am much more against the whip than ripping the National to pieces. You can have racing without hitting horses, but you can't have a National without an element of danger.

No more experienced rider than Davy Russell who fell at the first.

With rules,you have to draw a line,Whaley cohens ok so we ll let him ride isn’t really a safe system,who decides,

Pro jockeys whom have ridden in 100 chases seems to me about fair.

Premier league managers have to have their pro licenses,shankly,fergie,busby didn’t,but it’s about drawing a basic level of competence.

It’s 1 race if you want to run it it,get qualified,

Otherwise don’t go on national tv with half the country watching,hoping to wing it,the sport needs to save itself from these chancers.

But Davy knew the risks,had the proven ability,

Just let anyone ride then,cos they ll get further than Davvy.

(1) any newcomer must qualify by running in at least 2 of prerequisite races
(2) only seasoned runners allowed subject to form and rating
(3) only seasoned amateurs and pro jockeys allowed to ride
(4) prioritise the above 1st
(5) restrict max 3 from any stable/owner

The rest in the lap of GOD.

I didn't say that and I thought there had been a tightening of conditions for horses and riders in recent years. Falls are much more likely to be caused by horses (including loose ones) than riders. The vast majority of amateurs have had more rides in Point to Points (or out hunting which can be even more demanding) than a professional with 2 or 3 years experience.

How should we look after horses standing in fields given the death rate is higher than for racing and for the National?
Or......
Maybe educate people that animals aren't immortal, they enjoy err being animals - running and jumping etc and sometime be it over a course designed by humans or running around a field they injure themselves and die, There is an article in the gurnard by 1 of them and he basically says (not on purpose) it was done for publicity to highlight the issue of cruelty in other uses of animals. I try not to eat intensively reared meat but I don't think horse-racing should be banned - anyone that eats intensively reared meat and thinks the National should be banned should hold their heads in shame at their hypocrisy.

Why did we protest at the Grand National? To finally make Britain talk about our treatment of animals
Alex Lockwood
Alex Lockwood
Society is wedded to a belief that it is OK to control animals for profit. We hoped halting the race would make people stop and think
Sun 16 Apr 2023 14.45 BST
As a country of people who love animals, it shocks and saddens many of us that watching a horse break their neck on national TV is still considered entertainment. That’s why 300 people from Animal Rising went to Aintree on Saturday to stop the Grand National.

We did not fully succeed, and – like last year – more horses died. Hill Sixteen fell at the first fence and was put down due to the horse’s injuries. Hill Sixteen’s death followed those of two others at Aintree last week. We mourn the loss of these animals.

These deaths are par for this course, and for racing events overall. The horse racing authorities and betting industry defend slow incremental “welfare” improvements, and yet horses continue to die with awful regularity: 50 so far on the tracks in 2023. On average, a horse dies every other day on the tracks, over jumps and on the flat, with many more dying in training and the paddock. The dangerous institution of the Grand National should have been retired long ago.

Where we did succeed is in showing that this is a much bigger problem than just one race. We protested because everywhere we look we see a broken relationship with animals and the natural world.

This broken relationship is at the heart of our climate and nature crisis. We’re devouring nature through animal farming and fishing, killing our rivers with slurry from industrial chicken and pig farms, and watching our beloved wildlife disappear in front of our eyes. All because we are stuck in a pattern of outdated beliefs that it is OK to control animals, using them for profit. The Grand National is emblematic of this uncomfortable and one-sided dominance – that’s why we tried to stop it.

There is a solution: repairing this broken relationship, beginning where most harm is done, in our food system. A food system without animals is already known to be safer, more secure and more sovereign, providing all the calories and nutrients we need and, in fact, using less land. This freed-up land could be rewilded for nature to recover, and we could see wildlife – including wild horses – return and flourish.

It shouldn’t take a committed bunch of caring individuals to put this solution at the centre of national debate. But it has. Up and down the country, everyone is talking about our treatment of animals. This national conversation is essential to challenge the fast decline into climate inaction.

Some prefer to focus on the protests rather than the issues. So let’s talk about them. Animal Rising is a peaceful movement; our actions are focused on stopping harm, particularly in the food system, where we breed and kill more than 1.2bn animals in the UK every year. All of our planned actions on Saturday were nonviolent. That’s different from being disruptive, of course, but the two have long been compatible: just look at Gandhi or Martin Luther King.

Horses clear the water jump in the Grand National.
‘On average, a horse dies every other day on the tracks, over jumps and on the flat.’ The water jump at the Grand National. Photograph: Paul Greenwood/Shutterstock
We are a movement for all life and that includes animals exploited elsewhere such as in sports and animal testing. The aim was to stop the race before it began. But sadly it was deemed more important for people to have a bit of fun and a flutter than to stop animals from dying.

For those few claiming that our actions affected the horses and outcome, we point to the fact we were not taking action for the other 2,601 deaths since 2007. Direct action has been part of a healthy democracy for as long as there has been democracy, especially when it is obvious that “business as usual” does not represent the values of most of us. In the UK, according to research by the University of York, more than 80% of people under 40 do not want to attend horse racing events because they know it is unethical.

Police presence at Aintree
Over 40 activists de-arrested after Grand National protest, campaign group says
Read more
Returning to the bigger picture, has anyone yet taken any action that is proportionate to the coming social and economic collapse that is likely to result from the climate crisis? Have we persuaded our climate-insane government to take proportionate action? Not yet – if we had, it would have already ended animal farming and fishing and supported farmers into safer, more sustainable practices.

That’s why we’ll be taking more action this year, along with all those acting to challenge the existential threat. We’re not against those who attended Aintree, or the trainers or jockeys. But we accept Saturday was the biggest challenge to horse racing in this country for more than a decade.

Let’s hope that we’ve begun the process of having this crucial conversation about our treatment of animals and the natural world, and that others – our government, and all those who say they love animals – stand with us to tackle the mounting crises we face.

I believe they put a video of the horse dying on sm as well - if true then that really shows they don't give a damn about the animals its just their opinion they care about imposing on people.

Just watched the first circuit again,the loose horses caused all the problems,there’s no run offs,didn’t seem to be anyone around to catch these horses,5 fell at first this was cos of delay,

They need experienced stable staff at every fence to catch loose horses,each entry should provide these,not stewards.the first fence needs to be lowered like a hurdle to easy runners into the race,

It’s all easily solvable,just needs people to make it happen.

Leave it as it is and stop trying to placate people who will never support racing. Just ignore them as they are a small and insignificant fringe group.

make it 10 runner at sedgefield  only jockeys who have completed  reduce crowds  more vegan food  reduce prize money and tv coverage

10.s of 1000,s of horses are  left unattended in fields ev eryday next to roads,motorways,river,s,trains,paths and these horse we,re told are bred to race,jump,gallop etc etc,would rather chew grass or lay down and sleep and 99% have no intention of ever leaving that field unless forced to by a 3rd party

become a socialist  promote welfare and immigration issues that will not impact you

Whatever it is one can never satisfies everyone or every group - not even the easy availability of money or food. For instance the locals and immigrants in the UK. Some are appreciative and grateful, others constantly moaning even about NHS and Social Security - they are the freeloaders. But, will these people sod-off? Of course not! The goodies are too generous and silly to forego even during Brexit.

Moaners are either immature, ill-informed or lazy. Or all three. Sod them, I say.

Alex Lockwood the guy who believes he’s right.
Says
Society is wedded to the believe that it’s ok to control  animals for profit.

Is this guy for real.

Society controls people for profit ,it’s called a job,you’re controlled  by your boss/company,so it’s ok to control an animal for profit as long as you look after it properly,
He then bangs on about food production..

All these animals wouldn’t exsist if we didn’t eat them or race them,which part of that dosent he understand,

He wants less animals to enjoy a life,he hates animals,

Why does every fecking thread have to be ruined by turning into into and anti-immigrant moaning, racist thread? Everybody knows you are, pretty much, all racist  - you really don't have to keep repeating it ad verbatim.

yes you could turn it around and say racing /betting could continue without the national but couldnt continue without the migrant labour that keeps it all on the road

If only People realised just how much migrants contibute to and sustain the running of many parts of our society that are vital to us.

We will Never see 40 runners in the Grand National again. Im almost certain of this as I can be.

One thing I would think would help from me. Make it mandatory to school your horse over the fences. Because looking at the jumping this year, it was appalling from even usually decent jumpers.

school should of been at school more!

You could run it over 5f at Epsom and it would still not satisfy those ****s.

9.maybe,must of completed in becher chase,grand Sefton,previous national,create another race over the national fences ,proven horses Send to the BHA and jockey club please.Thank You

Looney on channel 5 now ...Jeremy Vine show talking sh1te

bbc news now on the radio, been debating for an hour or so!

Alex Lockwood and Animal Rising want to ban horse racing.
Not just that they want to ban all forms of animal farming and animal use for industry including food.
What they are talking about is society change.
Fine.
If you can come up with a society without war, poverty, famine etc by banning horse racing where do i sign up?
But there are far worse things in the world than racing.
Maybe make a start with child poverty first eh?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live

Kevin Blake on for the last 2 hours. Some callers have not a clue. But I still respect everyone's opinion, even if I like horse racing. And I'm always open-minded to change my views in the future, I think it's healthy.

We could survive without it

I love the Grand National more than any other sporting event. Yet even I found the first circuit difficult to watch on Saturday

What chance does the race have , with comments like this from within racing...........

Animal Rising, certainly changed the perception of the Grand National to the public on Saturday, unfortunately. I would consider it very impactful, even though I don't agree with these morons.

The only people who don’t want it banned are gamblers and greed merchants…horse racing is purely about punting,take away the punting and it would be as popular as carpet bowling…..ffs

There will be countless’legs’ and deaths in the coming months ahead……

I thought the race was bad viewing watching loose ones barging into fences and running loose….most non racing people must have been cringing watching the race….

I wouldn’t miss the 4 mile + handicap

So don't watch it then.

Unless you backed the winner or had a good place punt there is no way you enjoyed the viewing

TheAnorak 17 Apr 23 10:30 
So don't watch it then

Jesus….what an answer

Thing is, it must be taken from the headlines, how i dont know,but while it is becoming mainstream 'phone in radio show' headlines every year it gives Oxygen to the animal rights lobby.

That puts the rest of NH under threat from the public opinion which couldnt give a fck wether it goes or stays.

This wasn't an attack on the Grand National.
It was really an attack on a class of people who lefties view as a privileged.

I doubt if the protesters could afford to buy a decent racehorse between then.
The real problem is envy.
And another problem these days, is an infective police force.
Not one protester needing hospital treatment says it all.

ineffective police force.

Maybe time for change ….

Protesters shout to stop fossil fuels but can’t answer the question when they are asked what is the answer,they can’t

How do you improve NH racing ? You can’t horses will always fall neck first because they are tired,badly schooled or poor riding….or weakness in the legs unnoticed….

Cheltenham is big enough to carry the sport without the GN or with a modified GN.

We can have forty runners, big fences and marathon trips and other races show that individually those things can be made quite safe.
But having all three in one race looks a bit reckless, even if it isn’t. Like the spectacle and challenge is more important than the safety.

Fences are the obvious one for me, revert them to plain fences. Keep the 40 runners and trip. I know some argue that horses would travel faster at the fences but the chances of landing are still better. A lot of horses end up corkscrewing or pecking on the aintree fences.

Just leave it alone.

Pleasegivemeanailedontip • April 17, 2023 11:27 AM BST
Cheltenham is big enough to carry the sport without the GN or with a modified GN

Totally disagree the fixation with one meeting in a year is killing the sport

The big races need to be spread around the country if we want the sport to succeed

Ayr and a few others have a Grand National without modifying fences…..I can’t remember many deaths…correct me if I’m wrong….

Rothko i agree the fixation on cheltenham is too big, badly worded by me

Run to first maybe short it but there still go hell for leather into the first for  position
Make the first two smaller
But horse fall on hurdles so **** nose it die down find some **** digging up worms for fishing next

we always finish on a bit of dark humour so is anyone owning up to collecting on the sweep bobby prize for hill sixteen been the 1st horse to fall ,which i always did when i ran the works sweep

Give them the grand national and it won't stop, national hunt and flat would be next. Its time to take a stand imho

OK i know we still have to make more changes to the race but these bashtards wont stop till they get to our Sunday roast ffs.

I've cracked it! It's so blindingly obvious. Have a virtual Grand National. There will be no injury (except punters pockets), and the bookies will love it too.

Twelve participants have died in the London Marathon. Should it be banned because even one death is one too many? (No). Where did common sense go? And where are the racing folk giving a robust up yours?