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Aurora Nova 5.30 Dundalk, 4th ptp
Prominent, made challenge when pushed along 2f out, ridden and no extra 1f out, lost third when hung right but kept on final 110yds, disqualified, weighed in 10lb light (jockeys said he had weighed out correctly but realised on presenting himself at scales to weigh in that the lead cloth was missing resulting in a 10lb discrepancy; trainer said that he had mistakenly left the lead cloth in the stable when saddling his charge) (op 50/1)
Backed from 50s into 20s close to the off and shortened from around 8s into 5-2 in the 4tp market.
Prominent, made challenge when pushed along 2f out, ridden and no extra 1f out, lost third when hung right but kept on final 110yds, disqualified, weighed in 10lb light (jockeys said he had weighed out correctly but realised on presenting himself at scales to weigh in that the lead cloth was missing resulting in a 10lb discrepancy; trainer said that he had mistakenly left the lead cloth in the stable when saddling his charge) (op 50/1)
Backed from 50s into 20s close to the off and shortened from around 8s into 5-2 in the 4tp market.
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Replies: 34
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paffetic..simply should not be happening.
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Magic carrots not needed here it would appear. Severe bans required obviously.
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Shouldnt actually be classed as a runner.
Should be all staked back lay or back And trainer very very heavily fined. |
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korr wrecked.
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And trainer very very heavily fined.
Totally agree - does that happen in these cases though? |
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Strange that it was bet that heavily and ran that well. Smells of skullduggery, but what would that skullduggerry be? How could you benefit from this in any significant way?? I don't imagine there's much action in the in-running 4 place market. :)
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"Furthermore, the Raceday Stewards were satisfied that Andrew McNamara was in breach of Rule 36(iii) and Rule 148(i) and fined him €400"
Breached two rules and fined 400! They come down hard them Irish stewards. |
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So, if anyone wanted to lay their selection (directly or indirectly of course) they simply forget about a weight at some point conveniently and pay a HUGE 400 quid fine.
They could lay it in all markets knowing it was never a winner...could have gone 1.01 in a race and still have no chance... I remember this one's run, and it was near to leading I think at one point, so might have gone very short. But whatever, the point is the gap is clearly there for anyone wanting to use it for laying an animal in a race. Don't know why anyone would back anything over there at 1.01 type prices knowing that. |
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Would appear to be a genuine mistake to me, trainer couldn't hope to benefit from this as would know horse would automatically be disqualified, as stated before should be treated as a NR and stakes returned.
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Stewarts, doesn't matter whether this one was deliberate or not in the wider picture, the point is it would be so easy to exploit and take a tiny fine for it.
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Thanks Stu. Didn't see the race, but yes, potentially sweep up a fair bit in the in-running win market. Very interesting. This sport is SO shady that you can never quite be sure what the angle would be. For what it's worth, he is one of the few trainers I trust and do pretty well from in my betting activity, but that doesn't mean much.
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I don't agree stu, the IR market at Dundalk is very small and the few punters who trade in it who are close enough to real time to get involved on a Friday night at Dundalk must be even less. Any dodgy laying on betfair IR would stand out like a sore thumb imo and easily traced. Bare in mind the owner has had to pay training fees, entry fees, travelling expenses, jockey fee, i somehow don't think he's going to want it to have no chance do you? Think the £400 fine is fair.
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Stewarts, you really think racing has never seen dodgy laying of their own selections before, or will again?
That's massively naïve surely for someone who knows racing. Especially over there. |
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I'm not saying this specific case was deliberate of course. I don't know.
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I agree SR nothing to see here apart from human error. The fine doesn't seem a lot but you could fine them any amount and it will still happen again.
Everything has to he a conspiracy theory and bent, unfortunately it seems where the sport is now. |
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At the very least it is gross negligence. Should be a very heavy fine not these peanuts.
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It would be a great way of winning a fortune, far better than any dodgy rides, so long as you can go on and win the race and lay as much as you can at 1.01. You’re getting paid out at 100/1 after weighing in light.
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I can't understand why bets aren't voided, horse treated as a non runner and a relevant rule 4 applied.
All bets on the horse at present are lost before it runs, that just can't be right |
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voiding on that selection would be most appropriate I agree.
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It would be a great way of winning a fortune, far better than any dodgy rides, so long as you can go on and win the race and lay as much as you can at 1.01. You’re getting paid out at 100/1 after weighing in light.
Exactly the point - and you might only need to do it once, it would be that good a return! |
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Have you tried betting IR at Dundalk stu, if you haven't have a go, you'll get wiped out, any idea of an IR coup like that is fanciful to say the least.
Don't think i'm naive and yes i know there are some people who are not racing fairly at times but most of these have been pretty well known by most serious racing people, but if you think everyone's bent how could you ever have a bet? Most trainers and owners i've known are decent honest people who run there horses within the rules of the game whilst taking advantage of the system when they can but lawfully. |
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@the dealer
"I can't understand why bets aren't voided, horse treated as a non runner and a relevant rule 4 applied." That makes good sense in this case. What about the ones where the cloth comes loose in-running or the jockey drops his whip or the like? |
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Great question Longbridge,
I suppose with those at least you aren't beat before the race starts. Would have to say losers |
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stewarts, its not just about ir at Dundalk, obviously could be much wider than that, though that could be part of it. What about pre race laying etc, and other courses etc...?
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Point is obviously correct that any horse being ruled out for this at scales should be deemed voided in any betting, so it is impossible to profit from it.
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What about the ones where the cloth comes loose in-running or the jockey drops his whip or the like?
These are all visible events like pulling hard, being pushed along, falling, that the market will absorb. No one knows about the missing weight until after the race. |
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There's no way on earth someone can be expected to see two pounds falling out of a saddle, there is no universal camera angle.
There are plenty of cases of lead being lost in a race and no one knows where. Mo one is saying races where horses fall should be voided because jumping is a pre requisite. However the difference with weight is its a pre requisite condition for the race fulfilled by the human participants, not the horse. You are betting on the horse running at the specified weight. No punter is responsible for a jockey weighting in light, ever, unless there's skullduggery. Every trainer is responsible for ensuring the correct weight is ridden with and tack is in place and is fit for use. A horse usually falls of its own accord, a horse weighs in light because the person putting on the weight cloth has made a mistake or there is a mistake in the weight cloth itself. Its not really that difficult to work out and regulate and in particular in running prices should 100% be voided, you could rule 4 the rest of the betting. The onus should be on fining the trainer for this occurring and they should be as heavily fined as jockeys who likewise make fundamental errors |
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I can't understand why bets aren't voided, horse treated as a non runner and a relevant rule 4 applied.
Because connections could punt their horse, safe in the knowledge that they'll get their stakes refunded when the rider 'forgets' to weigh in or 'loses' his weight cloth. |
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Yes I get that but in this case the weight cloth was never put on. If you backed the horse, your money was lost before it ran.
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kjansch • March 4, 2023 3:22 PM GMT
There's no way on earth someone can be expected to see two pounds falling out of a saddle, there is no universal camera angle. There are plenty of cases of lead being lost in a race and no one knows where. I can't recall any of the 2lbs or so light weigh in issues being blamed on lead falling out of the weight cloth. But maybe you could link to a few of "the plenty of cases"? |
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dave1357 • March 5, 2023 9:38 AM GMT
I can't recall any of the 2lbs or so light weigh in issues being blamed on lead falling out of the weight cloth. But maybe you could link to a few of "the plenty of cases"? Try and read the two sentences again. One is a warning of what could happen. the second one of what has happened. I never said there were plenty of cases of two pounds falling off in a race. I said there were plenty of cases where the lead is lost in a race and no one knows where - Malaysian placed in Dundalk and weighed in light, Brian Hughes rode a horse in Carlisle a few years ago and they eventually found the cloth on the walk in- no one knew where it was and couldn't as it wasn't lost until after the race, supposedly. Have you profited from backing or laying horses in this scenario dave1357? If not could you explain what it is you believe you are protecting? |
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I said there were plenty of cases where the lead is lost in a race and no one knows where
So you are saying there are "plenty of cases" where there was less lead in the saddlecloth than at the begining of the race? Not sure how anyone would know that the correct amount of lead was there at the start. You must be a bit of a thicko, if you can't work out the huge moral hazard of being able to lay 1.01 for as much as you would like, with the only protection being a fear of getting caught by bf's security department. |
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Power Over Me - Epsom July 2021
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It was established that Shoemark had weighed out with a chamois included in his riding equipment, as confirmed by the Valet of Shoemark. The chamois, which was identified by the Valet of Shoemark and the representative of Brisland, was found by the representative of Hannon between the scales and the saddle hand over area prior to the start of the race. Shoemark confirmed that the chamois was not part of his equipment when weighing in after the race. Having heard all of the evidence, the Stewards suspended Shoemark for 5 days as having weighed out correctly, the saddle was still in his possession when the chamois had fallen from the saddle prior to Shoemark directly handing it over to Brisland.
fk all to do with 2lbs of lead |