Best Hurdler Ever Seen...

Rating of 100 maybe, but wouldn't really know wonders.

Shut It !!

dont know about the best ever ..............yet and its still early daze  ...............but hendo would have more  idea thsn most!

Just the 17 lengths then. Good shout OP

And not an Irish raider in sight.

Dec 26, 2022 -- 2:09PM, sparrow wrote:

Rating of 100 maybe, but wouldn't really know wonders.

race like the gordon richards in april
group 3
if soft/heavy ground

normal field you'd have a 100 rated flat horse double figures for that

Twice whupped a past sell by date Epatante .....not exactly , Sir Ken , Persian War , Night Nurses , Istabraq et al......just yet..........

I'd say nearer 110 tbh
all conjecture of course because won't happen

Exactly six.

110 rating probably about right but as you say it's all conjecture.

all opinions welcome

Me,getting in to bed tonight(NAP)

SEE YOU THEN 

Now that was a f`cking hurdler 

Ed Moses.

Joking apart.

I would have to go for Night Nurse. Never seen a horse so slick over the hurdles.

How far did Browne's Gazette beat See You Then by in the Christmas Hurdle?

Golden Cygnet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQhxmK2uq4 - Ridiculously stylish, and that is just "Boots"!!

Boom take that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDAUNSzmDFo

Depends on your era and subjectivity
Mine
Glory days of Bula, Night Nurse and Lanzarote etc
First comings of JP hated - Monksfield & C of Errors

Killiney was destined for greatness but who knows.

Well said Madhatters. Great, great era. Top class horses taking on top class horses. Not forgetting Persian War, Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon. An era never to be repeated.

Acey clueless if he thinks this horse is average ~fact

Made a former champion hurdler look like a plater twice in last few weeks

Golden Cygnet,cantering over legends like Sea Pigeon and Night Nurse and still a Novice wheni= it came to grief

and don't forget the enigma named Birds Nest...what an era

This time last year Sir Gerhard was heading for the Supreme .Was fav in front of Constituion Hill .

He's up there with anything there has ever been and I go back to Persian War.

Harchibald on a going day.

Acey clueless if he thinks this horse is average ~fact

Made a former champion hurdler look like a plater twice in last few weeks...I never said he was average but i dont think he is the second coming either.

You are not comparing like with like Howard. CH may well be the best around but that is not necessarily a lot. None of what is around could compare with the great hurdlers of the past so it is only opinion. You may be right but equally you may be wrong. Get a couple more years and a better class of opposition and you never know but I cannot see CH running 80+ times like Sea Pigeon or even 35 times like Night Nurse so no fair comparison can be made.
Horses nowadays run half a dozen times over a long period in non handicaps and often against very limited opposition. Then suddenly they are the greatest ever. Which begs the question, the greatest at what?

I speak mainly as a serious punter brigust. If you are good enough /experienced enough taking an early view is what is needed and  what pays. He likely won't have to be as good as Hurricane Fly to win at Cheltenham but I "know" he's better. The good ones have a conformation and an aura everything about them. You more than anyone should know this.

When Sea Pigeon left Greystoke I would be very surprised if Richards didn't think he had lost a great horse.

Like everyone else I don't know who the best horses are unless they meet. I have my opinion like everyone else but I think horses should be judged on what they achieve in their careers on the racecourse. Too many horses run over a limited range of distances for fear of defeat and are unproven, let us hope CH is given the opportunity to show how good he really could be.

Dec 28, 2022 -- 4:18PM, brigust1 wrote:

Like everyone else I don't know who the best horses are unless they meet. I have my opinion like everyone else but I think horses should be judged on what they achieve in their careers on the racecourse. Too many horses run over a limited range of distances for fear of defeat and are unproven, let us hope CH is given the opportunity to show how good he really could be.

This is why Kauto Star is one of the best ever. Any distance any ground and any track. The excuses that Henderson comes up with for his horses are crazy!

A horse with an aura , come on Howard give me a break.

Mind you suppose Wilbur may argue the point about Mr Ed.

Can't believe a horse possesses an aura , it's the presenters / pundits / fans / followers that christen them with one.

You can only beat what's put in front of you agreed but Epatante is beginning to assemble a profile similar to Excelebration.

Overall in agreement with brigust but that said these decade vs decade comparisons don't half become tedious and end up nowhere.


Good luck all   

Really don't see why Usain Bolt had to run 400/800 to prove he was an all-time great.

ch has looked very very good but at the price i have to take him on , and i have been backing   state man and vauban  on here i have 2 mullins horses on my side who are both festival winners and open to more progression both run in the  grade 1   tomoz and are available on here at double figga odds ,connstitution hill may be the next pegasus we will see but i have to go with what i see as value and these 2 will do for me.

Ed Moses

Nothing will beat CH in a clean run race, as for the best, lets wait and see but it takes a lot at my age to get me excited but watching him does, Grundy in 1975 was the first horse that gave me that feeling, and I was 12 then!!

I had a similar feeling watching a Greyhound called Desert Pilot in White City one year, lets just enjoy watching the good ones

Howard Usain Bolt is a great 100m runner but if he was great at 200m as well he would be a great athlete.

Deptford Grundy wasn't an all time great imo. He benefitted from Dick Hern running three pacemakers for Bustino (the fourth was withdrawn otherwise Bustino would have won).  CH is benefitting, may continue to benefit, from his age, his trainer spacing out his races, and the lack of suitable opposition.

Usain Bolt WAS a great 200m runner!

I know he wasnt mate but I remember him winning at Ascot as a 2yo and I said to my old mum, that horse wins The Derby! Its just something that has stuck in my mind, from a very early age I took a great interest in our sport, my teachers were amazed that I would turn up with The Sporting Life.

Although I am not an athletics fan Saxon that only proves my point though the two disciplines are closely related.

I was at Epsom to watch Grundy, I think it was the day before we joined the Common Market. He was a good horse and I think he definitely achieved more than Baaeed.

It was the day before we voted to remain in The Common Market.  We originally joined in 1973.
I hope I do not sound pedantic.

You think Vauban can beat Constitution Hill, Foyles?

not saying who will beat who what i am looking for is value  by the betting constitution hill the likely winner ,con hill is around  2/5 the race is 3 months away , i  would have to risk say  £500 to win £200 its not the way i play ,i can lay out say £100  on each of vauban and state man and have the possible chance of winning a grand plus if either wins . if con hill is as good as he looks so be it he may be way too good but at the prices i will take him on .its horseracing and anything can happen .

Hayden Joined: 15 Jan 02
Replies: 971228 Dec 22 16:45 

You can only beat what's put in front of you agreed but Epatante is beginning to assemble a profile similar to Excelebration.





Very good, hayden.

Istabraq was the quickest slickest hurdler ive ever seen.

He may not of been a better horse than some, but certainly the quickest.

Also well done to anyone who has 2-1 Constitution Hill.

He wouldn't have won in 1966.

Just an idea... Is it possible you could outspeed Constitution Hill? It could be a problem if a couple of horses are swinging on the bridle 2 out.... Just a thought

The United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum, also known variously as the Referendum on the European Community (Common Market), the Common Market referendum and EEC membership referendum, took place under the provisions of the Referendum Act 1975 on 5 June 1975 in the United Kingdom to gauge support. No you don't sound pedantic. I get things wrong lots of times Saxon. Act in haste and repent at leisure.

?

Trident29 Dec 22 09:25Joined: 05 May 07 | Topic/replies: 3,602 | Blogger: Trident's blog
Just an idea... Is it possible you could outspeed Constitution Hill? It could be a problem if a couple of horses are swinging on the bridle 2 out.... Just a thought.


I dont think horses are allowed to join in 3 out.

Well this is what i think, if he was running at Leopardstown Today Constitution Hill would be lucky to be second.

That is one proper Horse Race.

So far removed from reality acey.  WTF do you want the horse to do ?? Back somersaults to impress you.

Bloody laptop !!

Give me the first two over C.H any day of the week.

good luck with that project.

Acey's laying Constitutional for his bollocks in the Champion!...roll up!,roll up!

I think C.H is 4-11....You lot have gawn stark raving fakin mad.

Its like The Emperor with no clothes ffs.

If his opposition were wearing clothes I think he would trot up tbf.

Ed Moses

Well this is what i think, if he was running at Leopardstown Today Constitution Hill would be lucky to be second

Acey, if this isn't a wind-up, i don't know what it takes for you to recognise what is potentially one of the best hurdlers ever. He will not be beaten this season.

The OP is an attention seeking clown, imo of course!

I doubt any of the mentioned would have won an Ebor at York with ten stone….oh and a CH….just saying like…

Statement or Vauban either one would take care of C.H ya dumb fukers...Honestly am i the only one that knows anything on this Forum.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say Acey Deucy is Irish.
Just got me a feeling

There are just too many horses' names come up from the 1970s/80s who people give out as superstars.
Way too many for the word great to be attached.
They can't all be great.
I've looked back at the clips and some of those jockeys make Andrew Thornton look stylish.

It's called nostalgia j-c-m , we've all suffered from it in the past when it suits us   

They all took turns in beating each other aswell.
But I will admit, special days, sat with my dad riding the couch arm (me, not my dad) when Night Nurse ran.

makes you wonder @ what stage acey will realise this is something special.

Could win the CH by 10 lengths and I suspect Acey would still be calling him average.

Let him win it first, and then do it again before you start calling him the best ever!!

winning multiple ch hurdles just means a weak era potentially, like honeysuckle eg
waiting until all the evidence is in is boring.
spot all-time greats early on and enjoy the journey with em, imo

According to you JCM there have been no all-time greats beforehand anyway so how will you know when one comes along? I think the best way to test an up-and-coming all-time great is to compare his achievements with others achievements. Then when your supposed All Time Great exceeds the achievements of others that should be the time to celebrate. 
With CH there is still a very long way to go but that only makes the waiting and the achievements better and worth the waiting. To crown him a long way too early takes away the value of any successes. He certainly looks the best around at the moment but we desperately need something to test him properly. And that goes for those who currently tell us how great he is. They will desperately want clear evidence of superstardom. Otherwise they will be defending their positions forever. And the more these horses are over rated before reaching suitable achievements makes the connections refuse to test their horses properly. Henderson is classic with this and we don't want unsubstantiated claims like the ones recently and previously clouding our vision, do we?

According to you JCM there have been no all-time greats beforehand anyway

This kind of argument is disingenuous as in no way did I say that.^^^
I won't bother reading the rest, it will be nothing new from you.

There are just too many horses' names come up from the 1970s/80s who people give out as superstars.
Way too many for the word great to be attached.
JCM post of 1.39pm today.

There are just too many horses' names come up from the 1970s/80s who people give out as superstars.
Way too many for the word great to be attached.

where does that ^^^ link up with >>>

According to you JCM there have been no all-time greats beforehand anyway

I know you like to argue the toss but until you can read my posts in an honest way then
I will educate you no further.

acey on the wind-up otherwise he's a cretin.

I do expect an apology from you guys when this Nag gets beat...Of course he is very good but i really thing one of the Irish horses i have mentioned will take him down and i think i am as good a Judge as anybody on here.

you would have asked for an apology when secretariat got beat ydc. they are not machines.

Who's a better horse in their respective discipline, Constitution Hill or Baaeed? Or which has been hyped more, Constitutional Hill or Baaeed?
I believe if Constitutional Hill wins by at least 15 lengths or a distance (with or without Honeysuckle) it will go a long way cementing him as a genuine contender as the best hurdler ever. The thing is I do not know who the best hurdler ever was? Carrying mega weights in prestigious handicap eg Schweppes in the past was not unusual, but now unthinkable and frown upon.

howard you are banned from this thread now fack off.

seems like i'm not

A couple of years premature to be calling CH anything but a great potential,saw all the greats of the 70s @ 80s then Istabraq and unlike them he will be raced sparingly although more than See You Then who has not even had a mention despite 3 wins in the Champion H.Different era,different owners attitudes but not neccessarily different approach by NH,he has done it all ways e.g SYT and Binocular.Seen nothing so far thought to beat CH including acey's fancies.

Is Facile Vega hyped? He's seems to have beaten mediocrities yet odds-on after the far-fetched performance of Hendo's Jet Powered on atrocious ground at the weekend.

I think it's another confirmation antepost is truly dead if Facile Vega could be deemed an odds-on shot 10 weeks before The Festival after beating "nothing" so far.

When you see a headline currently in the RP saying 'Build him up and they will come' in reference to Constitution Hill and raceday attendances it is quite clear where the leaders of our sport are coming from. They are not interested in history or accuracy they are only interested in the bottom line.

F, Vega could be anything I was at Fairyhouse recently when he won and have to say I was impressed, then he confirmed it at Leop. We are very lucky here in Ireland to see competitive racing almost every racing day despite what others might think and he really got my attention ...

Obviously not the best but at his best top tier River Ceiriog .Check out the way he won the supreme novices hurdle in 1986 on youtube. Has to be seen to be believed and running a cracker in 1987 Champion hurdle until the last caught him out.

Workrider he hasn't a clue.
Facile vega had Ashroe Diamond the Winner  of MNHF at Aintree G2 and 3rd in Royal bond at Fairyhouse G1 back in 3rd path D'oroux won it's point bumper MH and ran pu in Royal bond G1 was back in 4th,Intranet was unbeaten  bumper and hurdle back in 5th.
Now for the stinger the 2nd at leopardstown behind Facile vega his name   IL ETAIT TEMPS 1st run for WPM 3rd G1 hdl behind VAUBAN at DRF 2nd run 5th to VAUBAN G1THURDLE at Cheltenham 3rd run 4th behind VAUBAN at Punchestown Festival G1 so started life out in G1 company over hdls.
Won its maiden this season b4 running 2nd to Facile vega IN G1.
IMPOSSIBLE explain what was in that race Jet(washed)powered ran in because I couldn't be bothered finding any other mediocre horses

Acey - Bit left-field this, but I have just realised who you remind me of - A guy who goes out on a boastful limb but always has an excuse when proved to be wrong. Not saying you are wrong in this case but....

When I was young, I played in a pub Bar Billiards team here in Sussex, we had a player who was the epitome of boastful pomposity. He even used to keep his coat/jacket on until about halfway through the 18(?) minute frame. Before cue off, or his first shot,  he would eyeball (coat on) his opponent, bend down and say "mine's a Cream Label (loser bought winner a beer!) before cueing off. He was very good,but he didn't always win, but when he lost, he somehow contrived a way not to be embarrassed by his pre-frame behaviour or comments.