What's Happened To Marie's RocK?

Haven’t heard anything but she had a couple of hard enough races in the spring so I’d have thought Henderson has been giving her an easier time before building up to March.
She looked like a proper stayer at Punchestown so I could see them trying three miles this time in which case the Cleeve could be a starting point.

She was 100% going Mares 7 days ago but following Honeysuckle defeat they have to consider Stayers is in the mix. They will run where she has best chance of winning which would not be against Honeysuckle if they can help it. The problem is the Mares is her best trip but her rating is quite a bit below HS which might make them consider going up in trip.

She’s due to run around Xmas and will be interesting what trip to start at.

I think that’s OK to assume. Henderson always has Cheltenham as his aim, more so than any of the top trainers compared to Autumn targets.
She showed she could do the Cheltenham/Punchestown double this year so that would seem a reasonable target and Nicky does like to keep them fresh.

Thanks both. She is rising 8, but she has only had 12 races, so I am hoping that she can keep improving.

However many hurdles they jumped, she bolted up after she won at Haydock so I suspect that race didn't cause any obvious problems. The comments for the two races were 'impressive' and 'readily'. At that stage she was favourite for Mare's Novice. I know only too well because I was on at 25/1.

Subsequent events would suggest she was never a Champion Hurdle horse. To get her back on course to win a Mare's Hurdle actually looks a plus for the trainer. She was never better than running through the line in that race so hard to believe she won't stay further.

Only thing that impressed me was the way she performed on the **** ground. Nico sent her up the rail at haydock and she had a bit of a squeeze getting through. She was iffy at her hurdles in both those runs.

My point Differs was that Hendo is poor getting them there from what he has had , you suffered from Epatante being pulled out of the same race I believe. Time after time, year after year , you cant trust him. Willie isthe first to say he hasnt got a clue where they are houng because

Confirmation of what I thought at the start of the season. She should now be clear favourite for a repeat Mare's success.

Similarly to Blenkinsop you can race with enthusiasm and win comfortably. Much too often this is thrown up as an excuse.

Hopefully, that bit of enthusiasm will stop them going up in trip, and she will stick to the original target. She is lightly enough raced to take in the Stayers next year.

fair bit of stamina in her pedigree...would fancy her a bit for the Stayers if they went that route

Not sure what this means or will help you differentdrum

She’s in very good form and it’s certainly possible that she could move up and run in the Stayers’ Hurdle. I’ve discussed it with Tom Palin (Middleham Park Racing) and there’s no doubt we’ll discuss it more, it certainly won’t be a decision that we’ll make in the near future.

There are a few contenders around. I’d say the biggest danger Teahupoo and you’ve got to always respect dear old Paisley Park. There isn’t a standout. In the Mares’ you’re going to have Epatante and Honeysuckle and we might even have Theatre Glory, so there is a bit to be said for at least considering the Stayers’ Hurdle, but we can sit on that.

It’s tempting to go for the Stayers’ Hurdle. I know I was saying with the filly (Luccia) I’d want to take the easier option and go for the Mares’ Novice, but I don’t think the Stayers’ is any more difficult with her getting the 7lbs. I know she’s never run over three miles but she won the Relkeel Hurdle on New Year’s Day and she stayed very well. I thought she was very impressive that day and she flew up the hill, so she’s fit and well and it’s something we’ll consider.

Mullins mentioned the RSA for Sir Gerhard last time he ran. Arkle it is then.

will she settle in a slow run stayers
will she stay in a well run stayers

they all stay in the stayers hurdle till they turn for home

This is so frustrating. The people around the horse don't seem to have a clue. I would have her as the most obvious winner at the Festival outside of Constitution Hill.

She has already beaten Epatante. She has likely improved since, and Epatante has got worse. Why should she move out the way to benefit a horse on the downgrade just because it is owned by JP? I don't think even the best of Honeysuckle would beat Marie's Rock at this trip, and she is way below that best.

Why were they unafraid a month ago, and now they are scared even though Honeysuckle has subsequently been trounced?

https://www.racingpost.com/news/maries-rock-team-unafraid-of-honeysuckle-in-race-of-the-meeting-at-cheltenham-aJxUP5z3KBjm/?_sgm_campaign=fcs_ac017b2e36000&_sgm_source=N139961%7Cproduct&_sgm_action=search&_sgm_term=MARIES+ROCK

There is some absolute nonsense thinking going on, pretending this race is more difficult than it actually is. It should be Marie's Rock going for the Mare's and the others can move out the way if they should so wish.

I have now had to back Marie's Rock for the Stayers. She might win that, but it could easily go pear-shaped, and thanks to an idiot decision, she ends up winning nothing.

Could you imagine how much thought Mullins ever gave to shifting Quevega. He let her do what he knew she could do, and didn't see the point in guessing. That is exactly what should happen here.

You can't afford to be angry about something you have no control over.

I started by saying it is very frustrating, I am not disguising the fact. If you are having to ask me why she should go Mare's then you haven't actually read my arguments. Even if the Stayers was an easier race, which it isn't, you are still guessing about her stamina at that trip. If you don't stay, you don't win. The Stayers has become a stronger race since they made that statement a month ago suggesting it was all systems go for the Mare's. There is nothing to be scared of in the Mare's race, distance or opposition. Everyone seems to be underestimating what she brings to the table. It looks from a distance as if connections either haven't got a clue, or they are being deliberately shunted aside to satisfy JP which makes no sense whatsoever when their horse is the superior of the two.

Just for you differentdrum.

Not sure what they are doing with the mare now, it seems Henderson is keen on the stayers now

Thanks Harry, for some reason the search didn't work for me. Looks like another one gone pear-shaped, but you always hope that sense might prevail until it doesn't.

I really think she is different class in the Mares'. Last season she was too good for Epatante and she has likely improved, Epatante hasn't. I don't think Honeysuckle at her best would have been good enough to beat Marie's Rock. Love Envoi is no better than a Grade 2 mare. Henderson talking the race up, and talking down the Stayers is clearly looking for any reason to shift her. Add in his gallop report and you can see the way this is going.

I just think why would you throw away a golden opportunity of winning another Grade 1 by taking a chance on her staying an extra three furlongs in a race very unlikely to be run to suit. Just because you are strong at the finish of one trip doesn't mean you will be over a longer trip. She is lightly raced, they can try her over three miles prior to Cheltenham next year. If she doesn't stay, no damage done, and she can go for a third Mares'. 

It's probably a done deal between Henderson and JP, and I am just hitting my head against a brick wall. Bet wise I would now win the same if she won the Stayers, but one bet is a good thing, the other might happen.

The best of Honeysuckle has been over shorter, but even there she had been bossing a threadbare division. Her jumping took quite a time to sharpen, but I thought last time it had gone backwards again. Any zest had gone, and she was losing ground. I think it is worth adding that De Bromhead/Blackmore by their standards have had a very ordinary season. They need to step up markedly in two weeks time to be challenging Mullins, and in this case Henderson.

I backed Honeysuckle when she won the Mares'. I always thought Benie Des Dieux was one of those horses that Willie placed very well, but was never quite as good as her reputation. If I remember correctly didn't Honeysuckle get first run, and just manage to hang on? As for the other race not sure Bacardys was ever that good, Apples Jade was past her best, and Penhill didn't run his race.

I will quite often stick up for Henderson because I like the way he conveys a love for the sport. That said I was on the wrong end of that switch with Bobs Worth from Ballymore to Albert Bartlett. I could see the merit behind that change of plan, in fact I wish Nicholls would do the same with Hermes Allen. The Ballymore is the wrong race on so many counts, but he is clearly intent on trying to prove people wrong after the defeats in this race, rather than doing best by the horse.

I think you could pick holes in that Apple's Jade romp. The second was barely a Grade 2 horse at that stage. She was a horse prone to winning big, a ten length win for her, is probably the equivalent of a two length win for Marie's Rock. Marie's Rock started impressively - I was on at 25/1 for the Mare's Novice, and she was a short priced favourite when scratched - it would be safe to assume she wasn't 'right' for quite a long period before bouncing back last season.

In general if you have a potential Gold Cup horse I think the best stepping stone is very likely to be the Albert Bartlett. Over the years the Ballymore has been a gateway to the Champion Hurdle. It is a test of speed rather than stamina. Hermes Allen is not a Champion Hurdle horse. On his hurdling debut Frost rode the head off him to win a poor race at Stratford. He then made all at Cheltenham beating Music Drive. He won nicely, but that form is light years away from winning a Ballymore. After the race Nicholls appeared to favour going up in trip, and I backed him for the Albert Bartlett. He then ran away with the Challow on dreadful ground. However you want to dress it up that was closer to a three mile test than a Ballymore. On the day only the first two ran their races. Any other form boosts are dubious. When Cobden came in, Snooty virtually told him he was going Ballymore and the jock replied by saying the horse could win over two miles. Yes, no doubt he could, but he wouldn't be anything like a Grade 1 horse at the trip. That effectively killed any chance of the horse going Albert Bartlett. Nicholls has made a habit of sending his best novice to the Ballymore and losing. You would think he might learn a lesson, but with him it is about puffing out that ample chest, and proving people wrong. The owners just follow like sheep. If he turned up for the Albert Bartlett it would likely be a straight face-off between him and Corbett's Cross.

Betting on the colour of Jolly Hockey Sticks hair on day 1 of festival would be an easier bet than working out where his horses might run, never mind finding a "hendo" winner.

                           
Chestnut.                  6/4.
Bay.                       1/1.
Brown.                     7/4.
Black.                     4/1.
Grey.                     50/1.                   



Could offer doubles with colour of socks and trebles on how many times he says macrophages.

He's presumably purchased the horse for its future as a staying chaser.