Any old-time pro gamblers looking in?

I can't quite believe that Argeband or Harry Metcalfe (trading as Jack Bevan) were ever that young.

By the time I knew them, in the nineties, Argeband had mastered the art of appearing to be the wise owl who knew everything but gave away nothing. Those hooded eyes helped. He would sort of materialize by the paddock at Newton Abbot, listen, mutter, then vanish. I don't mean to do him down, because he was a survivor, like Dodger. He survived the days of the 4% on-course tax, which I certainly couldn't.

Harry Metcalfe, meanwhile, had mastered the art of appearing to take a large bet, while never quite doing so. He'd be so apologetic as he halved your stake. There would be the consoling hand on your shoulder, just to make sure his man could go and have back what he had laid you before you went and took the price yourself.

Maximum respect to anyone who could survive betting that way.

You think of the tools the modern-day punter has - video analysis, speed figures, stats, lifetime form at the click of  mouse - yet it's still a tough game to make pay.

Some of the comments below regarding backing a 14YO: "Nearly old enough to smoke".

Someone asked in the comments below which racecourse is it, but didn't get a reply.

Looks like Newbury, but not totally sure.

It's Newton Abbot. Possibly - possibly - on Boxing Day.

No doubt ged will be able to tell us if Isle Of Man ran there on that day.

Cheers screaming.

It can't be Newbury because they stay against the far rail crossing the finish line.

In some ways it was easier in those days precisely because those tools were unavailable. Another West Country bookie, the late Ivor Perry, was always fond of retelling the story of a coup he'd landed when he backed a horse at a big price next time out after he'd spotted it falling in the lead at the last, and Chaseform had missed it!

The nice thing is that Newton Abbot still looks much the same, other than most of the railway goods sheds and sidings having disappeared from the back straight these days

Yeah, too much information.

The days of no widespread coverage, and the only memories of the non-televised races were in the minds of those present on course, images never to be seen again.

That's right. A pair of bins, and a determination to use them to see as much of as possible of every race, were enough to put you well ahead of the game.

Similarly, compiling your own ratings or speed figures. It was difficult in those days, and very few people knew how it was done, particularly speed figures. But the very difficulty made the work worthwhile.

He's asked at the end, is he depressed at having lost?

He replies with a smile:

"No, not at all, there's always another day!"

Hey, that's what I call discipline.

I Knew Alan very well in the 90s.

Incredible the people he knew from jockeys, trainers and the odd premiership manager.
Remember playing poker with him and he'd get phone calls from trainers including
Martin Pipe.

Another day we'd be in the bookies and his very close friend Harry Redknapp would pop in to speak with him.

Introduced him to spread betting and his first bet was a very modest £10 a length match bet
The horse won pulling away and Alan later said that the jockey had told him that
he was thinking of him as he rode the finish.

For anyone not on Twitter is this available anywhere else?

I'm not signed up to Twitter but can still see it .

Nov 22, 2022 -- 11:28PM, GEORGE.B wrote:

Maximum respect to anyone who could survive betting that way.You think of the tools the modern-day punter has - video analysis, speed figures, stats, lifetime form at the click of

Correct!

Nice to see how the ring used to be,always thought the biggest obstacle for the pro gambler in those days were the expenses.

For anyone who enjoys watching those rare old clips, the twitter account is called History Of Horse Racing @horsevault

Another one here of Terry Ramsden being interviewed by Jonathan Powell in 1986 and not denying that he'd paid 6-figures for Mr Snugfit.

https://twitter.com/horsevault/status/1595104393397145600

screaming is right - racecourse is Newton Abbot - Tues Feb 17, 1981. This was the Corndon Tor Chase. All races on the card were named after Tors.

Bill Smith and the old gel had better luck 3 races later with Special Cargo (5/4 fav).

Thanks, ged

Harry lays 13/8 to Argeband, turns round and has a seven hundred to four with Arthur Philips. Johnny Quigley betting at number 4 has backed everything in the race and loses whatever wins.

that account is worth a follow

Thanks for that George. Yeah that was interesting comments at the end. I've long believed most pro gamblers almost "don't care" which is a mentality apart from the crowd.

I doubt if Alan was a pro gambler.
He was more a buisness man who also made a few quid backing horses.

When I knew him he had an agreement with Ladbrokes where they would lay him Sporting Life prices
for modest stakes.

I came across this article online, which said he owned horses with David Elsworth.

So I was thinking he must have done all right with the pro-gambling!

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/GOODWOOD%3A+Nightshade+is+lethal%3B+
Cornwallis+next+as+Tabor+looks+to...-a060714720

Thanks for posting George most interesting , funny how we are always willing to gave a old horse another chance...I loved N.Abbot as a track , I was in Haydock on Sat and got the impression its on a downward spiral for some reason ,my visit to Cheltenham on the other hand was of the opposite it seems to be getting better each time I visit..

I knew Alan for many years and he was very well informed,placed a lot of bets,but was willing to share his information once his bets were on.A real character,and spent some good times with him.He loved to stay in Torquay when the season kicked off with Newton Abott followed by Devon and Exeter,as it used to be called,good times.A well-liked person and greatly missed.

I hope Alan wouldn't have minded me posting this. I found it in a programme for a Jewish service. I thought some might find it of interest (I did). I've left out some of the family and Jewish stuff...

Alan Argeband...
"I was born in London in 1931 to Mark
and Pearl Argeband. My father was in
the dress business and my mother was a
professional violinist in a ladies Jazz band.
During the Second World War my family
and I were evacuated to Aberystwyth in
Wales and I believe that I was the only
boy to have had a Bar Mitzvah there
during the war.
Aged 14, I left school to start work as a
trainee at Denham Film Studios. I then
moved to Pinewood Studios where I
became a third assistant director and
worked on many well-known films.
In those days it was compulsory to serve
for our country and at the age of 20, I was
duly called up to serve in the army thus
leaving a career that I would have loved
to have stayed in.
Nevertheless, I made the most of my
new life in the army and enjoyed playing
cricket for my battalion. In 1952 I was put
on embarkation leave to serve in Korea
but sadly my beloved father passed
away and I was released from service
on compassionate grounds to be with
my mother and younger sister who had
already moved to Bournemouth with my
late father.
Shortly afterwards, my mother and I
formed a textile business and managed
to secure stalls in various local markets.
Trade was good and things were looking
up!
In 1956, I met my wife Cynthia whilst she
was holidaying at the Cumberland Hotel,
one of Bournemouth’s Jewish hotels at the
time. We married the following year at The
Bayswater Road Synagogue in London.
We expanded our business, Alan’s Fabrics,
and went on to open several fabric shops
in Bournemouth and Poole where we
successfully traded for many years.
My hobbies have always revolved around
sports. I played for the 5705 table tennis
team and Captained the 5705 cricket team
with whom we toured Israel twice. I am an
avid Arsenal supporter and have also been
known to play a ‘mean’ hand at poker and
have a wager or two on the horses!"

It would seem he owned horses in his wife, Cynthia's, name. I can find runners in her name as far back as 1965, and as recent as 1993. One ran in the Hound Tor selling hurdle, on the 1973 card at Netwon Abbot, equivalent to the one in the film linked to in the opening post on this thread.

I found a link to a Jerusalem Post article, which mentions one of his 5705 cricket tours - it was the first time an English cricket team toured Israel.

Some great and informative posts, thanks for sharing.

For those of us who didn't know of Alan, and we were wondering having watched the clip, who was this mysterious gentleman who apparently made a living betting on course, well now we know, a successful businessman, a friend / confidant to the stars, a keen sportsman, and a life well lived.

Very  interesting  read thanks for posting
I do wonder how many pro.gamblers do not have any other form of income though.

kingofthebop23 Nov 22 13:37Joined: 03 May 12 | Topic/replies: 26 | Blogger: kingofthebop's blog
Harry lays 13/8 to Argeband, turns round and has a seven hundred to four with Arthur Philips. Johnny Quigley betting at number 4 has backed everything in the race and loses whatever wins

Brilliant! Just for one moment I was back there at Newton thirty or forty years ago.

What a crowd for a gloomy Tuesday in February.

Ron Newton, Matt Green, Stephen Little, Avalon Eddie Baxter, them from Dursley? Bob Jacobs sometimes, Arthur Philips,John Tovey, John Hourhane?? Sam Hughes, Dave Pipe, an assortment of Redferns, Jack Bevan, Johnny, Mel Jones.    Punters,  Dodger, Eddie, Graham from Plymouth, Alan bins, Jim DavIdson, Freddie Star, Chester Barnes, The Neck from Worcester and that crew, Cecil from Ladbrokes, Goodnight

Conky Loveless, the Pittard family, Ivor Perry t/a Frank Angliss, Bob Bulman trying to keep Ivor out of trouble ("How's the book doing, Robert?" "The book's doing all right, Ivor, but that's not the question, is it?"), Ashley trying to keep Eddie Avalon out of trouble, Badger trading badges in the car park beforehand, that fresh fish stall that used to be behind the Silver Ring stand during the holiday season ...

The workmen were great - Bob, Ashley, Badger, Adge peering over his spectacles as he took paddock notes before returning to work in the Ring. Didn't Adge work on the boats crossing the Teign estuary sometimes? There was a story about how he'd left a ferryload of passengers stranded once, while he went to work in the Ring at Newton. Probably apocryphal.

Just what I was thinking re the crowd screaming.

WD George and all posters, a very good read, the sort of thread i like

screaming,Adge still going strong,i see or speak to him most weeks.He does his own hcap specialising in 2 mile hurdlers.
He did work on the boats,the ferry crossing from Torquay to Brixham...was still doing a few days a week up until last year.I was a young clerk late seventies early eighties..and used to be in awe of Dodger Argeband and alike.
One day i asked Dodger what the secret was...he said "put the effort in because the bookmakers are lazy".

The Button brothers (not their real name) cashed in on their pitches a long time back. I see Brian a lot as he cycles past my house most days and looks very well. We have a chat now and then, but he has lost interest in racing.

Bookmakers still lazy but this place does it all for them.

You got a great response here George....I'm going to have to read all this in slow time

The game has certainly changed since then

nice thread.a bygone era.

ttt for seaside