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I have not backed this horse but cannot ever remember wanting a horse to win more - Sir Mark Prescott, 53 years a trainer and a joy to listen to, Miss Rausing one of the last great owner-breeders who bred god know how many generations on the dam line of this mare and Luke Morris (but of much criticism on here) but a fond memory for me, standing with Rod Millman in the Newmarket Racing Museum, on Sergeant Cecil's Cesarewitch day watching a kid on the museum's iron horse practicing pulling his whip through, over and over again (cue jokes!!!) Whatever, the old boy from Michael Bell's was very confident the lad would make it.
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6.8 a couple of days ago and now clear favourite. I worry about Luke among this bunch of cowboys though.
I have backed two Titleholder and Onesto but i would still be happy if Alpanista Won.
... Same as Acey, if Onesto cant win i would love to see Sir Marks win.
gone round in circles with this one, nothing makes me feel like it's bulletproof, opted for small e/w on sealiway & mendocino and will just watch
Luke Morris is tactically astute but has lost more races than you can shake a whip at by his
riding style in a finish.
riding style in a finish.
No sentiment in this game it’s a place lay….the brits will flounder on this…
It would make for a good story but Alpanista is not for me. I've done Dettori win and places but more optimistic than confident.
Ticks in all the right boxes. Backed her as soon as Baaeed came out. Played Mishriff (has had valid excuses this season and will relish this going) & Mostahdaf (plenty to find but 2 from 2 on soft going and looked in grand form at Kempton LTO) at huge price on here.
Booom Boom! Great ride by Luke and my fears that the French jocks would put him through the rails were unfounded. Huge run by Vadeni.
Wow, what a great ride and performance that was. Stirring stuff indeed, well done if you were on.
Oct 2, 2022 -- 3:12PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:
well donedoesnt like the ground
soft ground family on dams side hence the wonga
I have knocked Morris a few times. but I have to say that was a good ride.
Cheers Wonder! Well played all who are now collecting...never in doubt from 2 out!
What a day!!! Grandchildren for Sunday lunch - apple picking and conkering this morning. Taittinger on ice. I am in heaven!!. So good for all connections but Miss Rausing in particular.
Good memory Glasgow - Nope, Newton Wonder for Apple Crumble with Custard.
.
Alpinista won the race well, outgalloped them on awful ground, can't share your enthusiasm for the trainer or jockey though, well done backers.
Sandrine to give Kirsten a double? What an incredible record she has. I know she has the money but plenty of billionaires have spent a lot more with far less success. And all from tetrapacks!
Well done Blackbarn.......enjoy the rest of your day . Although i guess it cant get much better !
jockeys get 10% thats £240,084 not a bad pay day that lol well done he rode that to perfection
£240,084 to winning jockey well done rode that to perfection
Unfortunately means Prescott will probably continue to train a bit longer now and continue to Rob the sport
acey deucy 02 Oct 22 15:08
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century
fckn pmsl..this is the biggest guesser in the fourum
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century
fckn pmsl..this is the biggest guesser in the fourum
Nice opening post blackbarn I could not agree more and I had no financial interest in the race.
ricardo- acey dopey is far from the biggest on this ship of fools. though he is in the top 100.
no time for dame martha of prescot. hes a big fan of bull 'fighting' (not what id call it) and for that reason alone can shove off.
dont mind morris winning as hes not exactly trendy or stylish. he looks as though hes trying to jump off but has got his foot caught in the irons. never seen him cruise up immobile in any race until.. the biggest race of all. gorra laff.
no time for dame martha of prescot. hes a big fan of bull 'fighting' (not what id call it) and for that reason alone can shove off.
dont mind morris winning as hes not exactly trendy or stylish. he looks as though hes trying to jump off but has got his foot caught in the irons. never seen him cruise up immobile in any race until.. the biggest race of all. gorra laff.
I'll second that Jimnast
I think there's only ever been ONE that I've desperately wanted to win that actually did - Frankel's finale.
Though there have been dozens without a financial interest I've as good as prayed for like Wayward Lad,
Kildimo & Harchibald though it's never happened for me, as much as I convinced myself it would
I think there's only ever been ONE that I've desperately wanted to win that actually did - Frankel's finale.
Though there have been dozens without a financial interest I've as good as prayed for like Wayward Lad,
Kildimo & Harchibald though it's never happened for me, as much as I convinced myself it would
Thanks Gibberish and Jimnast.
MJK - "Unfortunately means Prescott will probably continue to train a bit longer now and continue to Rob the sport".
Each to his own, but I find it hard to understand that anyone would regard the probability of Sir Mark Prescott continuing training as a negative. "Rob the sport" is a ridiculous, wholly unwarranted and possibly litigious statement. Of all the tools, including the dubious ones, available to, and employed by the small and smallish trainers, Prescott's M.O. is pretty much the most obvious, transparent and easy to understand of any.
MJK - "Unfortunately means Prescott will probably continue to train a bit longer now and continue to Rob the sport".
Each to his own, but I find it hard to understand that anyone would regard the probability of Sir Mark Prescott continuing training as a negative. "Rob the sport" is a ridiculous, wholly unwarranted and possibly litigious statement. Of all the tools, including the dubious ones, available to, and employed by the small and smallish trainers, Prescott's M.O. is pretty much the most obvious, transparent and easy to understand of any.
dats not the point old fruit. he gets horses bred to win big races and very rarely gets anywhere near what they are supposedly capable of. if breeding means anything. i do not beleive that another trainer, given the same ammo would yield such a poor return.
i aint no expert and could be wrong, but thats just my view.
i aint no expert and could be wrong, but thats just my view.
Well, I have never heard of Prescott being accused of not doing the best with what he's given!!. The accusation I was referring to is him exploiting the handicap system to his best advantage and that of his owners.
"He gets horses bred to win big races and very rarely gets anywhere near what they are supposedly capable of. if breeding means anything. i do not beleive that another trainer, given the same ammo would yield such a poor return"
Leaving aside that he gets very few horses "bred to win big races" your statement is looking a bit silly after today isnt it?
"He gets horses bred to win big races and very rarely gets anywhere near what they are supposedly capable of. if breeding means anything. i do not beleive that another trainer, given the same ammo would yield such a poor return"
Leaving aside that he gets very few horses "bred to win big races" your statement is looking a bit silly after today isnt it?
no. hes had many as well bred. im saying this after the event, hes had many that are 'bred' to be good but win hcaps at yarmouth and other places. my point is that hes had some leeway granted by aloyal owner that might have had better results elsewhere. thats all, and i said im not an expert, but thats my opinion. and its not unusual.
There's many well bred horses out there who don't win races they're
bred to.
bred to.
A most pleasing result for the sport.
And thankyou blackbarn for expressing your eloquent thoughts with perfect grammar and punctuation. IT MATTERS.
And thankyou blackbarn for expressing your eloquent thoughts with perfect grammar and punctuation. IT MATTERS.
acey deucy 02 Oct 22 15:08
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century
fckn pmsl..this is the biggest guesser in the fourum
that's an absolute belter. defo on the shortlist for year-end awards night.
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century
fckn pmsl..this is the biggest guesser in the fourum
that's an absolute belter. defo on the shortlist for year-end awards night.
Oct 2, 2022 -- 9:24PM, blackbarn wrote:
Thanks Gibberish and Jimnast. MJK - "Unfortunately means Prescott will probably continue to train a bit longer now and continue to Rob the sport". Each to his own, but I find it hard to understand that anyone would regard the probability of Sir Mark Prescott continuing training as a negative. "Rob the sport" is a ridiculous, wholly unwarranted and possibly litigious statement. Of all the tools, including the dubious ones, available to, and employed by the small and smallish trainers, Prescott's M.O. is pretty much the most obvious, transparent and easy to understand of any.
So because his mo is the most obvious, he has a Sir before his name and his accent, its ok to do what he does then. I see. All his devoted fans should have a think about this the next time a trainer without a Sir before his name and without a toff accent pulls off a stroke to beat the handicap system before reacting with outrage.
acey deucy 02 Oct 22 15:08
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century.....Nobody died lads get over it... Big Day's need big statements.
7-2 what an absolute Joke....Lay of the Century.....Nobody died lads get over it... Big Day's need big statements.
MJK - Each to his own opinion, I guess! Although I am struggling with the relevance of his inherited "sir" and his apparently "toff" accent.
If you seriously think that Sir Mark has a "posh accent", then I think you might need to re-evaluate what that is. Jacob Rees Mogg might qualify but he and Sir Mark are chalk and cheese. If he had never had a sir in front of his name, you would probably be calling him a cockney.
Sageform I bow to your knowledge on this but guys like Prescott and Meade I've always regarded as 'toffs' because of their accents, probably wrong word to use. Blackbarn he purposely runs horses wrong and over the wrong distances to get a mark. No matter what way you want to present that it's cheating, just like any other trainer who stops a horse. The Sir thing seems to get racing pundits/journos weak at the knees when talking about him and his cheating is conveniently forgotten about. He's no different to any other trainer who runs them wrong purposely and imop shouldn't be praised for it the way he is.
Just reading the RP article about Alpinista. "It's a bad result for us and having started the day as a 5-1 second favourite behind 4-1 shot Luxembourg, she finished up being the best-backed horse of the day on both the Sportsbook and the Exchange" Mug bookies open a gigacert at 5/1 and wonder why it's the most popular bet of the day. If they weren't imbeciles they would've opened at 2/1 and it wouldn't have been so popular.
His are mainly big backward, late maturing types that are never going to make 2 YO'S. If they run at 2, they are obviously never going to run over the distance, they are bred to run. You can't stop them from running and imo there is nothing wrong with giving them race course experience, even if they can't win. It's the system that is wrong.
mjk. its not cheating. its just rubbish training imeo. theres nobody in the world who doesnt know what hes doing. cheating is something underhand and unknown to the great mass of peeps.
Greg Wood in The Guardian.
Baaeed was back home in Newmarket, Christophe Soumillon did his best to spoil the buildup and Alpinista, the winner, could struggle to make the top 10 when the international handicappers’ annual ratings are published in January. But many racing fans will fondly recall the 2022 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe long after a few of those to come have started to merge together just a little in the memory.
There was a time, even within the living memory of older generations of racegoers and punters, when a 50-horse yard such as Sir Mark Prescott’s Heath House, with the backing of a wealthy and committed owner-breeder in Kirsten Rausing, could challenge for the trainers’ championship if the stars aligned.
The huge influx of sovereign wealth into British racing since the 1970s has changed the game completely. Prescott, in his 54 years in charge of the oldest and most historic yard in Newmarket, has watched as strings ballooned to 100, then 150 and now, in a few cases, 200 or more. The town has become a global powerhouse in an internationalised sport, but a place where size is generally all that matters.
Alpinista’s half-length success at Longchamp showed that, very occasionally, traditional values can still win the day. The five-year-old mare, whose dam and grand-dam were also trained at Heath House, thrived thanks to the care and attention to detail of a trainer who stubbornly refused to build more boxes.
Her jockey was an essential player in the story too. Luke Morris is just the third stable jockey at Heath House – after George Duffield and Seb Sanders – since 1974. As familiar a name to committed punters as any in the game thanks to his insatiable appetite for hard work. Morris has had at least 1,000 rides every year since 2010 and more than 1,500 in five of those 12 campaigns.
Morris had four rides at Wolverhampton on Saturday evening before heading to France on Sunday morning, including a 100-1 chance that finished ninth of 10, and had six booked rides at the same track on Monday, all but one of which are expected to start at double-figure odds. He was making his debut in Arc on Sunday, around a track that takes some knowing, but rode a flawless race on Alpinista, justifying the faith of the punters who supported her down to favouritisms.
He also relegated Soumillon, on Vadeni, to second place, no doubt much to the relief of France Galop’s senior executives after he took his rides on Saturday and Sunday despite elbowing Rossa Ryan from the saddle mid-race at Saint-Cloud on Friday.
Alpinista’s win was, in other words, the perfect result for all concerned and after the teething problems with the new Longchamp grandstand, the travails of Covid-19 and then an 80-1 winner that left fans more perplexed than jubilant, also the shot in the arm Europe’s greatest race needed.
Countless acres of newsprint and gigabytes of bandwidth were devoted to whether Baaeed, the unbeaten International Stakes winner, would – or should – run in the Arc, before he was finally ruled out in mid-September.
He was not missed at all and William Haggas’s colt will no doubt complete an unbeaten career with a lap of honour in the Champion Stakes at Ascot on Saturday week. But he will almost certainly not end the year as the world’s top-rated horse – that honour seemingly having been claimed by the US-trained Flightline, whose Timeform rating rose to 143, 4lb shy of Frankel’s 147, after an astonishing win in the Pacific Classic at Del Mar in September.
But there is much more to a memorable racehorse and performance than a number on a handicapper’s spreadsheet and an event with the Arc’s history and tradition does not necessarily need all the best horses to be the best race of the year.
Baaeed was back home in Newmarket, Christophe Soumillon did his best to spoil the buildup and Alpinista, the winner, could struggle to make the top 10 when the international handicappers’ annual ratings are published in January. But many racing fans will fondly recall the 2022 Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe long after a few of those to come have started to merge together just a little in the memory.
There was a time, even within the living memory of older generations of racegoers and punters, when a 50-horse yard such as Sir Mark Prescott’s Heath House, with the backing of a wealthy and committed owner-breeder in Kirsten Rausing, could challenge for the trainers’ championship if the stars aligned.
The huge influx of sovereign wealth into British racing since the 1970s has changed the game completely. Prescott, in his 54 years in charge of the oldest and most historic yard in Newmarket, has watched as strings ballooned to 100, then 150 and now, in a few cases, 200 or more. The town has become a global powerhouse in an internationalised sport, but a place where size is generally all that matters.
Alpinista’s half-length success at Longchamp showed that, very occasionally, traditional values can still win the day. The five-year-old mare, whose dam and grand-dam were also trained at Heath House, thrived thanks to the care and attention to detail of a trainer who stubbornly refused to build more boxes.
Her jockey was an essential player in the story too. Luke Morris is just the third stable jockey at Heath House – after George Duffield and Seb Sanders – since 1974. As familiar a name to committed punters as any in the game thanks to his insatiable appetite for hard work. Morris has had at least 1,000 rides every year since 2010 and more than 1,500 in five of those 12 campaigns.
Morris had four rides at Wolverhampton on Saturday evening before heading to France on Sunday morning, including a 100-1 chance that finished ninth of 10, and had six booked rides at the same track on Monday, all but one of which are expected to start at double-figure odds. He was making his debut in Arc on Sunday, around a track that takes some knowing, but rode a flawless race on Alpinista, justifying the faith of the punters who supported her down to favouritisms.
He also relegated Soumillon, on Vadeni, to second place, no doubt much to the relief of France Galop’s senior executives after he took his rides on Saturday and Sunday despite elbowing Rossa Ryan from the saddle mid-race at Saint-Cloud on Friday.
Alpinista’s win was, in other words, the perfect result for all concerned and after the teething problems with the new Longchamp grandstand, the travails of Covid-19 and then an 80-1 winner that left fans more perplexed than jubilant, also the shot in the arm Europe’s greatest race needed.
Countless acres of newsprint and gigabytes of bandwidth were devoted to whether Baaeed, the unbeaten International Stakes winner, would – or should – run in the Arc, before he was finally ruled out in mid-September.
He was not missed at all and William Haggas’s colt will no doubt complete an unbeaten career with a lap of honour in the Champion Stakes at Ascot on Saturday week. But he will almost certainly not end the year as the world’s top-rated horse – that honour seemingly having been claimed by the US-trained Flightline, whose Timeform rating rose to 143, 4lb shy of Frankel’s 147, after an astonishing win in the Pacific Classic at Del Mar in September.
But there is much more to a memorable racehorse and performance than a number on a handicapper’s spreadsheet and an event with the Arc’s history and tradition does not necessarily need all the best horses to be the best race of the year.
Oct 3, 2022 -- 8:13PM, mitolo wrote:
mjk. its not cheating. its just rubbish training imeo. theres nobody in the world who doesnt know what hes doing. cheating is something underhand and unknown to the great mass of peeps.
So the next time Emmet Mullins wins with a well backed one with no form I assume everyone will accept it as everyone knows what he does....
Alpinista winning was the best result for connections, and the sport. If the unthinkable had happened and Soumillon won on Vadeni France Galop will have a mega egg on their face.
Lay of the century,pmsl Acey give the game up man.
give it up mjk. its not the same. i dont know why dame martha does it and i think he under-performs but its not cheating. and btw i dont think mullins is wrong if he produces one after 25 years off to win when heavily punted. there are many reasons why a horse can re-appear and run better than before.
its when they run badly 10 times and then take off when punted thats a cheat.
its when they run badly 10 times and then take off when punted thats a cheat.
Stoute….Cecil….franny norton…7st 13lb…..Willie Carson 7st 10lb…..big handicaps….and loads more..who knows..
give it up mjk. its not the same. i dont know why dame martha does it and i think he under-performs but its not cheating. and btw i dont think mullins is wrong if he produces one after 25 years off to win when heavily punted. there are many reasons why a horse can re-appear and run better than before.
its when they run badly 10 times and then take off when punted thats a cheat. -- I struggle to see how running horses over 6/7f for a handicap mark at 2 then laying them off for a year and punting them over 14f is not cheating. In fairness it's not his fault, he shouldn't be allowed to enter them with an unsuitable handicap mark. Its unfair to punters and other owners with reasonably graded horses in the race.
its when they run badly 10 times and then take off when punted thats a cheat. -- I struggle to see how running horses over 6/7f for a handicap mark at 2 then laying them off for a year and punting them over 14f is not cheating. In fairness it's not his fault, he shouldn't be allowed to enter them with an unsuitable handicap mark. Its unfair to punters and other owners with reasonably graded horses in the race.
think greg wood got that pretty much spot on ...if you are an oldie like me , watching racing since 1978. i appreciate younger , more betting focused players might think a little bit otherwise . we move on .
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