Can owners cash out bets on their own horses?

Could just say it was a fiends finger on the mouse…

Now there's an interesting one.

Owners are barred from laying their own horses, or backing horses they do not own in races in which they have a runner.

Those two actions are how an Exchange Cash Out is implemented.

But whether they are explicitly barred from cashing-out a bet on the 'books is an interesting question.

Harry found out the hard way about this.

The answer is NO

You can’t make financial gain from laying. Backing £500 and cashing out £500 or less to potentially back at larger odds elsewhere isn’t against the rules in my understanding. Done it loads of times.

Cashing out over the £500 probably isn’t allowed. But why would you if you had much better odds.

The answer is a big no no.

Backing £500 and cashing out £500 or less to potentially back at larger odds elsewhere isn’t against the rules in my understanding

incorrect, you can't do the lay part even if you've backed it and are holding green on the horse, it's a no

i may be wrong but im fairly sure one of harry findlays was exactly that, think the other he had the lay in first and went for the back later, but they did him on both

From what I remember you are right elise

Harry was hard done by.Racing needs people like Harry.

he was totally done over, he even lost money on the bets and they still hauled him in

If that is true that is ridiculous. I thought Findlay used exchanges not cashout ?


The rule states

Rule E 92.2 of the BHA’s horse racing rules states an owner must not lay any horse in their ownership to lose a race, instruct another person to do so on their behalf, or receive the whole or any part of any proceeds of such a lay.

How are you in breach if you cashout without profit ? It’s a cancellation of the bet ?
If someone bet £1000 and decided that was too much and cashed out and put £500 with that same bookie they surely wouldn’t get banned.

If you cash out you are laying aren't you?

Yes

case centres on two races involving Gullible Gordon, trained by Paul Nicholls, who is believed to have had no knowledge of any betting activities. When the horse ran in a novice hurdle at Exeter in October 2008, at odds of 1-3, Findlay layed him for £17,000 before staking £80,000 on him.

The horse was well beaten and Findlay made a net loss of £62,000. The reason for his lay bet on this occasion is unknown.

The second race was a novice chase at Chepstow in October, which Gullible Gordon won easily at odds of 4-6. Findlay had staked a total of £64,000 on him to win before the race started but, during the race, a friend who was operating his betting account took the opportunity to lay off £32,000 at shorter odds. Findlay made a profit of £35,000.

From the guardian

i was talking to someone at haydock a few yrs ago that was being investigated for backing antepost and laying off in the day of race, never saw him after but his acc had been suspended, think i first spoke to them 2003 when i part owned one, i checked because i didn't want to risk my account, decided to not even bet via betfair to avoid all risk

worth adding, i think for 99% of owners that are just tinkering you'd never get picked up, it's where either the volumes are large, you're well known to them / racing and they take a look, or it falls into the suspicious activity as in lays on certain yards etc

All these are exchange bets I’d guess or at least the lay part would be. That is a big no no.

I’m still not sure if anyone has been done for cashing out the same bet with bet356 or Slybet.

doubt as above they'd get picked up in the majority of cases

hf was shopped because there's zero chance the bha are clued up

They wouldnt be able to get a bet on in the first place to be able to cash out.

no doubt stacks of owners / syndicates fall foul without ever knowing they were doing wrong, most on just small scale and will never get noticed, you only have to look at how few big cases hit the bha headlines and how few get warned off

All the "no" answers here are referencing the rules banning owners laying their horses - I think it is pretty clear-cut that rule prohibits cashing out on exchanges.

The interesting question to me is whether it also prohibits cashing-out sportsbook bets; I do not think that is so clear?

OP, if big NH stables in Ireland can knowingly 'lay' non-runners using inside info owners cashing out bets on their own horses pales into insignificance, I'd imagine.

Bookies have been knowingly and repeatedly assisted in money-laundering mega amounts on fobt and "big" losing punters as evidenced by the answer the mega fines imposed eg £17.9m to Entain, the owner of 'ladcrookes and ok koral'.

I had to look and re-read several times and TBH never realised this Forum had sunk so low with ill informed and moronic contributors who are not exactly new,the OP not excepted!!!

Get a grip YSDCs? If you don't know you should NOT be gambling,little wonder the Racing Post thinks it holds the high ground!!

A Gay rag despite the ownership,you just give them oxygen about guidance!!

Never mind looking and re-reading, just give your opinion.

It has been obvious for donkeys sparrow since the BHA changed the ownership rules and exchange accounts,outside of exchanges any trainer or owner can back or lay to their heart is content.............FACT!!!

Findlay had staked a total of £64,000 on him to win before the race started but, during the race, a friend who was operating his betting account took the opportunity to lay off £32,000 at shorter odds

layed off £32,000 in running

ffs betfair wakey wakey . this is how great the horse racing markets use to be .