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07 Apr 22
14:32
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piper has without doubt cost salute ground..albeit not a lot..for that reason it has to be disq...but its a high profile meeting and went 1f together.
No way should Russell keep that in my opinion , deliberately crossed him. Brennan will be too much of a gent to make a fuss.
If Knight Salute had lost the race they would reverse it , but with it being a dead heat they can cop out and leave the result. Its a first grade one for Harris , I doubt he would appeal unlike some other trainers.
If Knight Salute had lost the race they would reverse it , but with it being a dead heat they can cop out and leave the result. Its a first grade one for Harris , I doubt he would appeal unlike some other trainers.
Paddys happy with a DEAD HEAT WHEN HE COULD HAVE NICKED IT.
all he's done is make sure davy doesn't punch him in the changing room
stewerds should make own decision, what jocks say irrevelent
There is never any point of ever speaking to a jokcey again, WD winners
Well done the Stewards for seeing through all that flannel.
Shows there is no point in having jocks in. Waste of time
WOW a stewards team that do the right thing !!!! Unbelievable scenes in British racing.
I don't think it is a farce at all.
The Stewards independently came to their own conclusion.
The Stewards independently came to their own conclusion.
Stupid decision, next they will be looking into how well they started the race.
Considering the winning distance, think that was about right.
If Miss Frost had ridden it there would be certain big mouth, know it all, posters up in arms on here!
breennan is a total clown...
for the trainer and owner he should be saying,m'lord,pied jumped across me jumping last and forced me 3-4ft left costing me momentum..i have dead heated so i must get the race.
for the trainer and owner he should be saying,m'lord,pied jumped across me jumping last and forced me 3-4ft left costing me momentum..i have dead heated so i must get the race.
how many times do see horse jumping across like that and not even a stewards enquiry.Loads of times
cos it's not usually a d-h when even an inch would have made the difference
cos it's not usually a d-h when even an inch would have made the difference
paddy is setting himself up for a stewards in the national where he'll tell them he was train wrecked and wants a reversal
That's what I thought too, Trendy. Milton came across as a really decent fellow.
If you backed Knight Salute,wd.
Tbh you want your whole stake on a
winner,not half.
Probably would've won without that .
Tbh you want your whole stake on a
winner,not half.
Probably would've won without that .
duncan idaho07 Apr 22 14:51Joined: 08 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 25,478 | Blogger: duncan idaho's blog
how many times do see horse jumping across like that and not even a stewards enquiry.Loads of times
They get called a wh@re by Robbie Dunne
how many times do see horse jumping across like that and not even a stewards enquiry.Loads of times
They get called a wh@re by Robbie Dunne
Ibrahima Sonko 07 Apr 22 14:50
Stupid decision, next they will be looking into how well they started the race.
so iyo piper didnt jump across salute and hmp it?
Stupid decision, next they will be looking into how well they started the race.
so iyo piper didnt jump across salute and hmp it?
Totally agree Rico, Brennan tried to talk himself out of a Grade 1 win, on live TV, wouldn't be rushing to back him again ...
Might have been a very good bit of psychology used by Paddy on the stewards.
But how do you know if he wasnt impeded he then may have hit the front sooner and lost ?
too many variables that far out imo.
too many variables that far out imo.
Ibrahima Sonko 07 Apr 22 14:54
But how do you know if he wasnt impeded he then may have hit the front sooner and lost ?
it has 100% cost salute momentum and obviously ground..if its cost it an inch it had to get the race.
imo.
But how do you know if he wasnt impeded he then may have hit the front sooner and lost ?
it has 100% cost salute momentum and obviously ground..if its cost it an inch it had to get the race.
imo.
Apr 7, 2022 -- 2:50PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:
Stupid decision, next they will be looking into how well they started the race.
in the US they take them down if they move off their lane at the start
That type of thing happens at every obstacle, if it had happened at the first , do they amend the result?
There should never be another dead heat as some type of "interference" would have happened somewhere
There should never be another dead heat as some type of "interference" would have happened somewhere
So if there is interference that ‘much’ at any fence and there is a dh, nee or sh will the winner be chucked out? The fact it is at the last is irrelevant and from now on stewards are going to have to rerun every race to see if similar (which it does in every race) has happened, lots of results are going to be reversed. Bryony should have about third of her winners chalked off!
Apr 7, 2022 -- 2:54PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:
wd rico..confirmed again the best in forum.
the forum fooktard is your number 1 title you mug counnt
Not only did he not lose any momentum he still had a furlong to get his mount up and the horse still would not go past.
wd rico..confirmed again the best in forum.Cool
Oops, you forgot to sign out
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Apr 7, 2022 -- 2:58PM, Hilly wrote:
That type of thing happens at every obstacle, if it had happened at the first , do they amend the result? There should never be another dead heat as some type of "interference" would have happened somewhere
correct
It's a pity for Piper backers that KS didn't hit the front sooner! PP would surely have got back up. Crazy decision by stewards IMO.
horse runs down a hurdle or fence = convention is its ignored
We see far more interference on a daily basis and th e stewards do nothing, yet because the cameras are in the stewards room today and the old farts are awake they decide to actually do there job for once
Hilly! You are absolutely right, and as you say, ANY INTERFERENCE, anywhere, has a bearing on finishing positions. The stewards are cranks!
Certainly opens up every single tight finish to a stewarts.
piper started veering left well before the last..russell never tried to correct it.
Under the rules the locations IS ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT. The stewards are required to decide whether, on the balance of probabilities, the interference affected the result. Their confidence and degree of certainty, that it did, will WITHOUT DOUBT be impacted by how far out the interference occurred.
Given that the stewards based their decision on the video what took them so long? What a waste of
time. Should have taken them 30 seconds. They've ignored the jockeys' statements so why bother asking
them? Only in Britain could such bolucks exist.
time. Should have taken them 30 seconds. They've ignored the jockeys' statements so why bother asking
them? Only in Britain could such bolucks exist.
If i owned Knights i would feel pretty peeved how Paddy represented my interests in the stewards
will WITHOUT DOUBT be impacted by how far out the interference occurred.
A length lost is a length lost wherever it happens, I once had a horse chucked out (sabre hills for barely noticeable interference half a mile out and that was 30 years ago
A length lost is a length lost wherever it happens, I once had a horse chucked out (sabre hills for barely noticeable interference half a mile out and that was 30 years ago
Instead of coming out with all that irrelevant nonsense Russell should have just said "I agree with Paddy". You could see Brennan cringing at Russell's testimony. Further evidence if it was needed that jockeys don't belong in stewards enquiries.
Having said that thought it was a very poor decision, it was too far out for such minimal interference to be relevant. Stewards were naive and ruined the race.
Having said that thought it was a very poor decision, it was too far out for such minimal interference to be relevant. Stewards were naive and ruined the race.
adamski 07 Apr 22 15:30
it was too far out for such minimal interference to be relevant. Stewards were naive and ruined the race.
piper jumped axcross salute jumping the last forcing salute 4-5ft left whilst losing momentum..is that 'minimal' iyo?
it was too far out for such minimal interference to be relevant. Stewards were naive and ruined the race.
piper jumped axcross salute jumping the last forcing salute 4-5ft left whilst losing momentum..is that 'minimal' iyo?
Spyker - "will WITHOUT DOUBT be impacted by how far out the interference occurred". A length lost is a length lost wherever it happens, I once had a horse chucked out (sabre hills for barely noticeable interference half a mile out and that was 30 years ago.
Your latter point is correct but pretty much irrelevant under the rules. The stewards are required to decide on the balance of probabilities whether that "lost length" affected the result at the end. If the "lost length" was at the last fence, they are far more likely to decide that it did, that if the "lost length" happened at the first.
Your latter point is correct but pretty much irrelevant under the rules. The stewards are required to decide on the balance of probabilities whether that "lost length" affected the result at the end. If the "lost length" was at the last fence, they are far more likely to decide that it did, that if the "lost length" happened at the first.
Why are jocks asked for their opinion in a stewards?
Do refs asked for a footie player's opinion before giving a card or pen?
Baffling.
Do refs asked for a footie player's opinion before giving a card or pen?
Baffling.
Knight Salute was handed outright victory in the Grade 1 Jewson Anniversary 4-y-o Juvenile Hurdle at Aintree on Thursday in the stewards' room but both his trainer and jockey seemed unconvinced the stewards had reached the correct decision.
After a barnstorming finish, the judge could not split Knight Salute and Pied Piper but following an inquiry, the stewards deemed that interference between the pair at the last hurdle had cost Knight Salute outright victory.
Given evidence in the televised stewards' inquiry, Knight Salute's rider Paddy Brennan told the panel that the interference had not altered the result but the stewards ultimately disagreed and gave Brennan and Knight Salute the race.
Jewson Anniversary 4-y-o Juvenile Hurdle full result and race replay
"To be honest, I didn't feel a lot. Davy [Russell] has obviously got to the front and he's had a look at the last and my horse has reacted to that and jumped to the inside," Brennan told the stewards. "I was always happy to go to that rail, so I don't think it affected my finishing position to be honest."
He continued: "It was cat and mouse. I wanted to be using him as a line and then from the last I was always going to make a manoeuvre to get a run. So whether he jumped left or right, I was always going to be happy to stay behind him until then."
Davy Russell, rider of Pied Piper, blamed himself for being in front far too soon and told the stewards his horse was idling on the run-in.
Knight Salute (right) and Pied Piper cross the line together
Knight Salute (right) and Pied Piper cross the line together
Edward Whitaker (racingpost.com/photos)
He said: "I completely rode the horse incorrectly myself. I was there way too soon and he's idled in the past. I just travelled so well and was going so easy and got there and just idled.
"I know the horse – he's done it in the past and he's done it again there. I've tried to keep him straight and I didn't want to cause interference, nor did I know I was causing interference.
"With such a long straight here, he's done it in the past – he did it in his first run at Punchestown and ran around in front and I knew myself riding in the race, this is completely wrong what I was doing and he was going to idle in front but my hands were tied and tipped away at the race.
"I would have preferred to have been doing what Paddy was doing and then I would have been at way more of an advantage. I was at a disadvantage the way it was."
'What a horserace'
Asked by the BHA's head of stewarding Shaun Parker if he had felt there had been any momentum lost with what had taken place at the last hurdle, Brennan said: "Absolutely none. When I jumped the last, that's when I was thinking, right, I need to go for this.
"Whether Davy jumped left or right, my momentum wasn't what mattered, because when I got over that last hurdle, that's when I was going to play my cards and everything worked perfectly for me and I think it's a very fair result and what a horserace."
On the decision the stewards reached and the fact it appeared to go against what Brennan had told them, Parker said: "I think what we need to understand is that in any inquiry we hold the parties in terms of natural justice have an opportunity of putting their case to the stewards.
After a barnstorming finish, the judge could not split Knight Salute and Pied Piper but following an inquiry, the stewards deemed that interference between the pair at the last hurdle had cost Knight Salute outright victory.
Given evidence in the televised stewards' inquiry, Knight Salute's rider Paddy Brennan told the panel that the interference had not altered the result but the stewards ultimately disagreed and gave Brennan and Knight Salute the race.
Jewson Anniversary 4-y-o Juvenile Hurdle full result and race replay
"To be honest, I didn't feel a lot. Davy [Russell] has obviously got to the front and he's had a look at the last and my horse has reacted to that and jumped to the inside," Brennan told the stewards. "I was always happy to go to that rail, so I don't think it affected my finishing position to be honest."
He continued: "It was cat and mouse. I wanted to be using him as a line and then from the last I was always going to make a manoeuvre to get a run. So whether he jumped left or right, I was always going to be happy to stay behind him until then."
Davy Russell, rider of Pied Piper, blamed himself for being in front far too soon and told the stewards his horse was idling on the run-in.
Knight Salute (right) and Pied Piper cross the line together
Knight Salute (right) and Pied Piper cross the line together
Edward Whitaker (racingpost.com/photos)
He said: "I completely rode the horse incorrectly myself. I was there way too soon and he's idled in the past. I just travelled so well and was going so easy and got there and just idled.
"I know the horse – he's done it in the past and he's done it again there. I've tried to keep him straight and I didn't want to cause interference, nor did I know I was causing interference.
"With such a long straight here, he's done it in the past – he did it in his first run at Punchestown and ran around in front and I knew myself riding in the race, this is completely wrong what I was doing and he was going to idle in front but my hands were tied and tipped away at the race.
"I would have preferred to have been doing what Paddy was doing and then I would have been at way more of an advantage. I was at a disadvantage the way it was."
'What a horserace'
Asked by the BHA's head of stewarding Shaun Parker if he had felt there had been any momentum lost with what had taken place at the last hurdle, Brennan said: "Absolutely none. When I jumped the last, that's when I was thinking, right, I need to go for this.
"Whether Davy jumped left or right, my momentum wasn't what mattered, because when I got over that last hurdle, that's when I was going to play my cards and everything worked perfectly for me and I think it's a very fair result and what a horserace."
On the decision the stewards reached and the fact it appeared to go against what Brennan had told them, Parker said: "I think what we need to understand is that in any inquiry we hold the parties in terms of natural justice have an opportunity of putting their case to the stewards.
Given evidence in the televised stewards' inquiry, Knight Salute's rider Paddy Brennan told the panel that the interference had not altered the result
begs absolute and utter belief.
begs absolute and utter belief.
would brennan have compensated the owners if he'd manage to persuade the stewards not to award his the race ...
Illustrates the point I was making above.
The input of jocks in a stewards is irrelevant.
Just look at the replays & don't bother asking these daft coonts a thing.
The input of jocks in a stewards is irrelevant.
Just look at the replays & don't bother asking these daft coonts a thing.
Here's a question for you steve. Had Pied Piper won by 3L would it still have been disqualified?
Of course not. And I've said it before on here that too much emphasis is placed on the winning distance. If a horse is badly bumped but loses a length it won't get the race. The assumption that because it was beaten a length the bump didn't really matter is a nonsense imop.
Of course it is nonsense, and that is why the distance beaten is NOT specifically in the rules. It is (or should be) merely a consideration in the Stewards deliberations. Of course, the Stewards are more likely to likely to throw one out if the gap is small AND they consider that the interference was worth the loss
At the risk of being considered an apologist for the stewards, I am merely trying to interpret the rules, which for the avoidance of doubt give no guidance to Stewards on what weight to give the evidence given by involved jockeys
At the risk of being considered an apologist for the stewards, I am merely trying to interpret the rules, which for the avoidance of doubt give no guidance to Stewards on what weight to give the evidence given by involved jockeys
So if the same incident would have occurred at the first hurdle involving the same 2 horses would the result still still have stood. How far back will the stewards now be rewinding a race back. Does the rule book state when the incident has to take place for the result to be affected. Does it state only at the last hurdle or one the run in but anything goes before that.
onthebit - read the thread - it might help answer your questions.
stewy im embarrassed you even asked that question.
Rico-Dangleflaps 07 Apr 22 14:36
has pied piper hmp other? yes
has it cost it an inch? yes
how then can it not be disq?
has pied piper hmp other? yes
has it cost it an inch? yes
how then can it not be disq?
They never touched, Mr Elliott not that popular it would appear?
Pied half length jumping the last first, a curious decision, we see this sort of thing everyday no stewards.
You can't point and aim some of these old slow sorts!
I am biased , but watching live, as they jumped the last I shouted ' Davy you bastard ' , assuming 'racing incident ' .
Don't know where we stand with stewards today, been some decisions in last 6 months which would never got turned round in last few years. I understand the reasons for the revised result but how many races before should of been revised if they are the rules 
as ive read somewhere else today had pier caused the winner to fall would piers have beern disq placed last,we,ll be seeing horses/riders/connectiolns objecting in future now,was just part of racing til 2 30 yesterday
Interestingly, there was a double disqualification at Parx (America) this week.
Winner A drifted slightly left, Runner Up B drifted slightly right.
Neither did much wrong or even came anywhere near each other.
However the cumulative effect was the 3rd C, in the middle of both but behind both, was squeezed and snatched back and after an Enquiry was awarded the race.
Winner A drifted slightly left, Runner Up B drifted slightly right.
Neither did much wrong or even came anywhere near each other.
However the cumulative effect was the 3rd C, in the middle of both but behind both, was squeezed and snatched back and after an Enquiry was awarded the race.
Should Townsend been awarded the 2018 champion hurdle when Barry kept melon in and cost it a length
The rules are far more lenient these days than in the past and probably too lenient.
Did Tom Buckley do anything different at the last in the first at Fontwell today !
Well it went to appeal, and it seems Paddy was still doing his best to ensure the spoils were shared, but alas the appeal panel upheld the decision of the stewards on the day.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/pied-piper-appeal-against-controversial-aintree-stewards-decision-dismissed/555889
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/pied-piper-appeal-against-controversial-aintree-stewards-decision-dismissed/555889
any clown with eyesight can see piper slightly hampered knights salute jumping the last...so if its cost it an inch it rightly gets the race..
yet it takes the clowns that run this sport 2.5hrs of deliberations to uphold the decision made on the day.
yet again..another comedy gold farcical episode
yet it takes the clowns that run this sport 2.5hrs of deliberations to uphold the decision made on the day.
yet again..another comedy gold farcical episode
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