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differentdrum
21 May 21 16:36
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Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 12,913 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
Wants to restrict strings to 70.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/too-many-are-in-one-kennel-sir-mark-prescott-on-why-the-derby-isnt-the-same/491065

It would at least sort out the glorified dart throwers.
Pause Switch to Standard View Great Idea Sir Mark But How Does It...
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Report steerforth May 21, 2021 5:38 PM BST
TBF he does say it can't happen. But he is spot on with the point.
Report SeeMoreBusiness May 21, 2021 5:44 PM BST
the respective authorities could make it a condition of granting a licence.
Report SeeMoreBusiness May 21, 2021 6:00 PM BST
the other problem is that the family he is referring to could have at least 210 between them, not accounting for any other offspring starting up!
Report giggitygiggity May 21, 2021 6:30 PM BST
It will even out when Galileo dies.
Report cacique May 21, 2021 6:51 PM BST
if they restricted the numbers trained by trainers, Wings of Eagles, Serpentine, and possibly Anthony Dyck would have been trained by someone else other than AOB and he wouldn't have the record.

Should do away with joint owners as well. can't own a % of a horse and claim to be leading owner
Report Pilsudski May 21, 2021 6:56 PM BST
Well done Sir Mark Prescott. He is quite correct......the Derby has been devalued,and one “kennel” has been responsible for that.
Report Too Easy May 22, 2021 7:38 AM BST
70 perhaps isn't quite realistic but should be a serious topic for discussion with racings leaders. Lest we not forget for those on this thread having a pop at the O'Brien clan that Gosden has access to 400 horses a year and arguably a deeper spread of pedigrees.  Appleby can't be too far behind on numbers either.
Report A_T May 22, 2021 7:48 AM BST
But Gosden and Appleby don't spam the G1 races with runners.

I would be in favour of coupling in the betting horses with the same owner - that would stop some of the shenanigans.
Report brigust1 May 22, 2021 8:56 AM BST
I have been saying for many years Ballydoyle are bad for horseracing so I'm someone else has had the courage to speak out. I know I speak as a punter but punters contribute to the pot. AT's suggestion about coupling is about the only likely one to come out of any actions but goes no way to solving the problem.
Report brigust1 May 22, 2021 8:57 AM BST
*pleased
Report Pilsudski May 22, 2021 11:12 AM BST
I agree 100%,Brigust1.
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 7:15 AM BST
agree brigust, spoilt the sport i loved

"no one wants 300 horses , but they do it because they dont want others to have them in case theres a good one."
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 7:21 AM BST
AT , 2  groups 1 at the curragh today, obriens have 9 runnersSad
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 7:46 AM BST
obriens   46 runners   in 2 days at the curragh alone this weekend CryCryCry
Report johnwayne May 23, 2021 8:32 AM BST
totally agree with him, obrien has ruined the derby with his scattergun approach and taken away the route of top two year olds progressing into the derby as was the rich history of the race. he doesnt even know what his best horse is for the race
Report CROPSICK May 23, 2021 8:33 AM BST
I remember when i was a kid watching the old 'Sportsnight' programme in the 70's there was a feature about Peter Walwyn and how he had the biggest string in racing which at the time was 80 horses
Report GAZO May 23, 2021 8:48 AM BST
its not perfect but he has the best horses so we should probally be grateful he runs a few in a race,he probally doesnt know his best horse but thats good at least it makes some races more competitive,you could probally make a profit backing all his horses in group races when not ridden by moore especially 2y0 and 3yo races
Report A_T May 23, 2021 9:41 AM BST
AT , 2  groups 1 at the curragh today, obriens have 9 runners

I'm in two minds as to why they do this.

1 - they genuinely don't know which are their best horses and are just throwing darts to see if one hits the bullseye - with the added bonus of packing the field to scare off opposition.  (yesterday's Guinness was probably a case in point)

2 - they know which is their best one but part of the crack for the stable and all involved is pulling off betting coups so they pack the field to confuse the market and also have team tactics in the race.

this is why if it's 2 I think they should couple horses which have a same owner of owners - they would never implement this in Ireland but they could do it over here
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 10:07 AM BST
i think its definetly point 1 in the group1 races, they  havent a clue, ( thats why i could never have him as a genius trainer)

but no doubt in the maidens and others id say point 2
Report A_T May 23, 2021 11:24 AM BST
arguably 3 of the last 4 derbys have been won by dart-throwers
Report GAZO May 23, 2021 11:28 AM BST
but would those races have been better if they had just run the winner or worse
Report Pilsudski May 23, 2021 11:30 AM BST
Correct,Elisjohn......he is no genius trainer.
Report acey deucy May 23, 2021 11:43 AM BST
father forgive them.Sad
Report acey deucy May 23, 2021 11:44 AM BST
Posters that really should know better.Plain
Report acey deucy May 23, 2021 11:48 AM BST
Trained Istabraq to win four Champion Hurdles, **** to win four Gold Cups ....Not a Genius?....You could not make it up ffs.
Report penzance May 23, 2021 11:51 AM BST
Obrien's a great trainer who happens to have a massive
stable,all well bred.Don't wrap 'em up in cotton wool,
either.
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 11:57 AM BST
obrien , like prescott says , doesnt need 300 horses but has  them as they dont want others to have them in case theres a good one  there.

obriens have no serious competition, cecil had harwood, hern, cumani, stoute, hills vincent , fabre, and others , and they all had great horses in their stables.
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 11:58 AM BST
christ, his sons hardly christened as trainers are winning groups 1 like picking apples from a tree
Report elisjohn May 23, 2021 11:59 AM BST
ps fully expect the fav to win today
Report A_T May 23, 2021 12:12 PM BST
don't doubt that Aiden is a good trainer - and with 300+ horses probably not easy to keep track of how good they are. But despite the impressive stats not in the same league as MV O'Brien
Report penzance May 23, 2021 12:27 PM BST
so what if his sons are winning group 1s.
They've got the horses to do it,do you think
they'll turn'em down,if offered?
Report Pilsudski May 23, 2021 1:55 PM BST
Now you’re talking,A_T.
Report acey deucy May 23, 2021 3:59 PM BST
I was Vincent's biggest fan but young Aiden would eat him...You old timers really have to move on.Plain
Report MJK May 23, 2021 4:04 PM BST
Prescott, that bastion of honesty. Will you all get a grip ffs.
Report steerforth May 23, 2021 4:10 PM BST
You can argue all day about who is better than who - fact remains I'm bored stiff with Coolmore, and enough people feel the same, and thats killing the game.
Report A_T May 23, 2021 4:16 PM BST
funny I'm reading Davod Copperfield at the moment

I was Vincent's biggest fan but young Aiden would eat him


don't be silly
Report salmon spray May 23, 2021 4:24 PM BST
O'Brien has kept the Derby going tbh.
The problem is 12f used to be the championship distance but now it's 10f. Partly because breeders don't want stallions that stay.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves May 23, 2021 4:45 PM BST
I remember Tony Morris once writing about some Derby winner that was supposedly sub-standard, on account of its victory being unexpected Morris pointed out that the purpose of the Derby isn't to confirm or reward the horse we knew was best anyway - its purpose is to find out who the best horse actually is.

From that point of view, the O'Brien approach is the one that actually benefits the sport and the breed. How else do we find out which horse has the ideal combination of temperament, balance, precocity, tactical speed and stamina? Certainly not from entries restricted to those who catch pigeons in morning gallops on Newmarket heath.
Report barstool May 23, 2021 4:49 PM BST
I used to be able to string off a series of Derby winners but not anymore. Just seems an endless stream of mediocracy nowadays. Hard to believe it is nearly 12 years since See the Stars won it, but he was the last really good one.

Salmon Spray is right, only Coolmore seem to breeding 12f horses and lots of them. Must be even money they take  the Derby or ledger every year.
Report differentdrum May 23, 2021 4:50 PM BST
I find it hard to believe that even trainers considered to be relatively ordinary couldn't produce Grade 1 winners given Aidan's ammunition. He has a massive comfort blanket. Whenever one looks a complete dud another one just replaces it. It's nothing like a stable who might have one or two decent horses. If those don't produce the goods they have nothing else to fall back on.

Vincent O'Brien's record would suggest he knew pretty early which ones were the stars. The same cannot be said for Aidan.
Report A_T May 23, 2021 5:29 PM BST
Hard to believe it is nearly 12 years since See the Stars won it, but he was the last really good one.

Golden Horn?
Report barstool May 23, 2021 5:36 PM BST
I stand corrected A_t.
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