Havlin

Thought the ride on At a pinch at Newbury just as bad.

Once they've decided the jockey didn't take all permissible measures, if the trainer / rep says they're happy with the ride and the instructions were followed, that's usually the trigger for the trainer to be penalised too, but clearly in this instance the stewards have bottled it.

Game of opinions whippin...if you think he deserves 21 days for that, you need your head testing...after all he hasn’t stopped it, it’s just an incompetent ride made worse by the winner getting tired imo

Compare with this example from 2015, and the 'little guy' Shaun Harris getting hit with a £3K fine.

Is it one rule for John Gosden and another for the likes of Harris?

The Stewards held an enquiry into the running and riding of FIRST SUMMER, ridden by Jordan Nason and trained by Shaun Harris, which was settled at the back of the field and appeared to be tenderly ridden to finish seventh, beaten 3 lengths. They interviewed the rider and the trainer. They also received a report from the Veterinary Officer who confirmed that a post-race examination failed to reveal any abnormalities, and observations from the Handicapper. The rider stated his instructions were to drop the gelding in and get cover. He stated that he was outpaced early on due to his slow start and turning into the home straight was waiting for the cut-away to make his run. He also stated that the gelding choked and was making a noise so he rode the gelding hands and heels to the line. The trainer stated that he wanted cover from a poor draw and to make the best of his way home. Having heard their evidence and viewed recordings of the race the Stewards found the rider in breach of Rule (B)59.2 and the trainer in breach of Rule (C)45.4, in that they were guilty of conditioning the horse on the racecourse. They suspended the rider for 14 days as follows: Wednesday 23 September to Saturday 3 October and Monday 5 to Wednesday 7 October 2015. They fined the trainer £3000 and suspended the horse from running in any race for 40 days from Saturday 12 September to Wednesday 21 October 2015 inclusive.

Won't appeal as will then involve John and Thadius causing serious embarrassment to the good name of Gosden.

This is why royalty have shields with the family crest. (aka Rab Havlin)

Game of opinions......but of course you're right & I'm wrong.

He could of at least moved on the horse,like a fecking concrete statue..............

11kv, it would seem Dettori is being quite selective in the rides he takes, so Havlin is coming in for a lot of nice rides on fancied horses, plus with the one meeting rule for jockeys, it'll mean more rides on quality horses for Havlin on the bigger days. So a 21 day ban is going to hurt financially. My guess therefore is that he will appeal.

Or has he ruled out an appeal already?

must admit i didnt see it live and was expecting far worse after listening to chappers i thought he must realise he,s going to catch him and stop riding but when he had a chance he wasnt expecting to win ,he went for it,badly placed horses finishing fast happens 6 times every day
did chappers and co go for it big style straight after the race,
normally pundits would be saying got lonely out in front ,lost concentration blah,blah and if 2nd had got their early winner would have picked up again etc,etc

Not sure Rabs short of a few $,be interesting to see if he bothers to try and get it overturned...

apparently he was left a lot 'poorer' due to the cost of the legal fees when trying to overturn the drugs ban

Whippin I’m not saying he shouldn’t of been banned but 21 days is to much in this case.

So is everyone in agreement 21 days is right just to clarify

I rarely post against jockeys and had no financial interest in that race but I was astounded by the ride. Most jockeys want to win races and I firmly believe that if Havlin had wanted to win that race he would have. In my honest opinion it looked bad and was bad. Clearly the stewards thought the same as me and in that case 21 days can be regarded as the minimum. I agree with another post here that if it helps to be associated with a high profile trainer.

It would be interesting what the opinion of other jockeys is, if that was possible.

i liked the bit at the bend when he virtually stood up in the irons like he was pulling up something in the midlands grand national .

Usually I'd be the first to condemn an 'overly tender' ride, but I also think this was an OTT reaction to the ride. We all expect at least 'reasonably tender' rides first time out. Do you want to put the horse off racing forever on it's first outing? I think Havlin did believe he was running into a nice 2nd place and didn't quite see the chance to win. Possibly injudicious. But much less harmful than many obviously intentional tender rides given to very fancied experienced runners that are rarely exposed. I'm also not sure that the horse in question would have run any faster in the closing stages with a whipping. Do we believe they all need whipping? It seemed to run very eagerly under the pushing he gave it when in the clear. Not sure about it being 'fragile' - that sounds like an excuse - looked like a big strong beast - maybe it will win the derby - that would be a cool story. Not sure the establishment would like it. :)

In what possible way would it be a 'cool story'? Best horse in a race has lost, how is that cool?

This story is really about what should be deemed acceptable when a horse appears on a racecourse.

Personally, I don't think this idea of 'educational rides' is acceptable. It is an excuse for a horse not displaying it's true ability. If horse A can be produced fit enough to win why should horse B turn up unfit and effectively on a schooling in public mission.

The point I was trying to make earlier was if Havlin had finished fourth would the Stewards be handing out 21 days? I doubt it. If they picked up on everything there wouldn't be anyone left in the weighing room. They expect to get away with it, and they do.

Occasionally, Stewards will attempt to show that they are not spineless, and this was an example.

That did look awful you could see that was a half hearted finish by Rab.

given an easy,never ever given the hurry up
until it was too late.

I won't attempt to judge the ride except to say that if that warrants 21 days then at least 3 or 4

rides in every race run in Britain deserve 21 days! If Havlin had wanted to make it look like he

wasn't preventing the horse from winning he could have easily done a Luke 'bump up and down in the

saddle' or acted in an animated way and fooled the stewards. These kinds of things are down to a

fine art in Handicaps and Maiden races where trainers ae looking fir a low mark.

exactky roggrain

exactly too :)

Jockey Robert Havlin is to appeal against a 21-day ban handed to him by Lingfield stewards on Wednesday for failing to take all reasonable and permissible measures to obtain the best possible placing.

Havlin, 47, rode 16-1 shot Stowell to a fast-finishing second in the 1m4f novice stakes behind odds-on stablemate Polling Day, with the ride attracting attention for the rider's hands-and-heels approach.

Speaking on Thursday morning in Newmarket, Havlin said: "I plan to appeal against the 21-day ban issued by Lingfield stewards."

Havlin was interviewed by the stewards, as was a representative for trainers John and Thady Gosden, who stated he was "happy" with the ride and that it "accorded with the instructions given"

Deserved at least 21 days imo. Horse should have banned for a while and trainer fined too. Havlin clearly prevented the horse from winning. As George mentioned earlier on the thread, the concern will be that they hire the best lawyers and somehow get away with it like Havlin did at Yarmouth last year when his riding was reckless at best and arguably very dangerous. That ban was reduced from 10 days to zero so we may see the same though I'd hope that the process is strong enough that they increase the ban for such a frivolous appeal. If it was someone of a lower profile (or from a lower profile yard) the ban would stand for sure.

the guy has some front

Just watched the replay on ATR, Havlin would have won in another stride, think a 21 day ban is a bit harsh, we all know that John Gosden  does not like his horses knocked about 1st time but win if you can.

An Appeal was inevitable. When have they ever increased a ban? It doesn't happen. The worst legal team would get him off. That's what happens.

If The Stoowards have any sense they will increase it to 3 Months for the bare face cheek of the guy.

Havlin took a pull just as  they were about to turn at the very same time his more fancied stablemate was kicking on , he should have got six months for that action alone

Banned for life
Leading trainer cheats
Integrity
Comedy gold

Another nail in the coffin

I except it was first time out but you have to do more than that. No chance of a reduced sentence.

Put it this way if the Horse in front was not Gosdens he would have Won going away.

I think he was long odds against to get this 10 day ban overturned last year, but he employed the top legal brains and he managed it.

The head on footage of what happened is within this link. Imo it shows a gradual drift under right handed pressure which resulted in two horses being badly hampered and lucky to stay on their feet.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/jul/30/talking-horses
-deirdre-can-light-up-glorious-goodwood-again-in-nassau-stakes-horse-racing

Didn't see race yesterday, having read this I thought this must be blatant because a( It got Barton Bank out of retirement to comment and B) Havlins copped for 21 days.
I didn't think it was as bad as most are saying, was out for an introductory race and got one but ran on really well to get closer to winner than they expected as Frankie coasted home in front.
Don't think ride given was any worse than Gosdens stable mate Marshal Dan(or similar name) was given against Polling Day in it's previous run but Mackay did a better job of getting boxed in.
Both Gosdens btn stablemates making their racecourse debuts.
Think most jockeys would get bans for giving debutantes easy rides in that case.

put it this way, if it had gone from 16/1 to 8/1, it would have got up

the horse wasnt there to win..anyone who thinks otherwise needs..

A,sectioned
B,another hobby.

FACT.

I would disagree that every day there are riders deliberately stopping horses from winning, as seems to be suggested by many on this forum.
However ,whether the leader was idling or not , Havlin in my opinion would have won with just a couple of cracks with the whip, and is totally wasting his time with an appeal. Rightly got 21 days.

Gosden employs him for rides exactly like that. A talented older jock wouldn't take the job.

He should count himself very lucky to only get 21 days. Any sort of meaningful effort off the final bend (not just doing a bit of knitting) and he would have won with a bit to spare and that's without resorting to the whip. The horse finished with a full tank and he couldn't even pull the beast up passing the line. Plenty on here seem to underestimate the skill of a top jockey. These are people at the top of the tree and employed by these big stables for a reason. Havlin knew exactly what he had under him, hence the delay in his "effort"
One thing is for sure, the 2nd will turn out to be a much horse than the winner of yesterdays race.

*better horse

21 days harsh imo..seen way worse with paltry sentences.

I agree.  The race finish plays out as the trainer has instructed, as does the horse's run, and yet the trainer is free of charge or consequence.?  And, clearly, the leader who became the winner, did idle in front - the distance between it and the third and fourth placers didn't extend at all over the final furlong.  Stewards are looking to make waves.  It's not the first time recently they've falsely pilloried a jockey.

Yes, we know that now piccadilly, as the racecourse has shown us, but the market didn't, so saying that the racecourse run showed it was much the better horse is a meaningless comment, in my view.

What are you trying to say with your meaningless ramblings, Honcho? So, you don't think the stewards should have acted?

Wow!  The judge and jury has passed sentence!  lmao.  No point conversing with you at all.

Just trying to make sense of your posts, Honcho. The winner idled but you agree the 2nd is a better horse but then the market didn't tell us its going to be a better horse.....so the jockey shouldn't receive a ban? About as clear as mud but thanks all the same, Honcho. lol

One thing is for sure, the 2nd will turn out to be a much horse than the winner of yesterdays race.


Interesting statement whippin Piccadilly considering the winner gave him 7lbs on only his second start...very bold

Obviously you knew he gave him 7lbs whippin?

Yeah, no point sitting on the fence, Harry. Connections WILL reap the rewards of that "kind" introduction.

Yeah, I did know that, Harry. You think I got into the game just last week?

Hang on, just noticed a change to the wording of what was reported this morning, now it's he's "considering" an appeal and has asked the PJA to have a look at the race "with a view to appealing".

So an appeal not absolutely certain yet, they have until tomorrow to decide.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/robert-havlin-to-appeal-against
-21-day-ban-handed-down-after-eyecatching-second/485827

Wasn’t sure considering your bold statement...

handy to know though, thanks for confirming.

That's not what I said whippin, as well you know, even in your childish mentality.  Jockeys, from time immemorial, have followed trainer instructions, as Havlin clearly did here.  If they don't they don't get future rides.  It's a simple conclusion therefore to apportion most of the blame for the ride on the trainer.  Simple!  So simple that even your puny brain will eventually get it.  However, this new breed of stewards, who are out to pillory jockeys at any given opportunity, refuse to challenge and pillory the big boys of the game.  The trainer has to be the most culpable here.
You following this whippy?

Can’t beat a Godolphin horse if you want to continue riding for them. Hard lines on Nat Rothschild who has only had five winners from 41 runners in five years.Should he take his horse away from the Gosdens ?

If it wasn't a stable mate, especially a blue one then I think Havlin would probably have got away with it. Also you'd see much worse examples of this with the AOB mob a few years back.

That ride was bad by any standard you want apply to it,the panic in the jockeys body language as his mount closed down the leader was palpable.


He deserved every minute of those 21 days and starting price doesn't excuse what we saw.

Absolutelty spot on punch.

According to RP results section Havlin said that Gosden had told him not to use the whip. Maybe in future punters should be told pre-race about this instruction.

Howard do you expect a horse to be hit with the stick first time out?

He is not going to appeal according to twitter

The headlines yesterday went from "Rab Havlin to appeal", to....Er, um, I'll see what the PJA think...

Not appealing then,if the winner wasn't a John G horse as well I think he would have appealed it.

didn't appeal, as likely the ban would be increased.

I think Howard has a point. The whip today ,we are told , is not the implement of yesteryear, and horses barely feel them. Perhaps it
should be noted on the racecard if a whip is not to be used ,except for safety reasons. That way punters couldn't complain if they hsad been forewarned.

Great news.

I now look forward to all Stewards coming down like a ton of bricks and no jockeys appealing their decisions. Chances of that happening?

the pja, he was unlucky.

The stewards should stop bottling it and come down on champion trainers who pre-ordain the result of a race where they have multiple runners, as Gosden quite definitely did here.  The jockey is, and always has been, the easy touch for stewards.

Got animated on the son of Frankel there to get it to win.....

Spot on Loyal Honcho. Did Rishi ask JG about Stowell,or did he just gush about Palace Pier ?

Robert Havlin signalled his intention to put his controversial ride at Lingfield on Wednesday behind him by winning the 1m2f handicap on Side Shot.

As he had done the previous evening at Chelmsford, Havlin struck on his only ride of the day as the John and Thady Gosden-trained son of Frankel continued his progress with a decisive success.

"He wants a galloping track and is always best going left-handed," the jockey said. "He used to be really keen but he's settling a lot better now and will probably stay a mile and a half."

Earlier in the day, Havlin decided not to appeal against the 21-day ban issued by the Lingfield stewards for failing to take all reasonable and permissible measures to obtain the best possible placing on 16-1 shot Stowell, who finished a head second to odds-on stablemate Polling Day.

"I thought it was best to put a line under it and move on," said Havlin, who will be out of action on May 5-8 and 10-26.

"There were a few avenues we could have gone down, but I went through the appeal process last year and didn't want to drag it on for the next week. I've not had a day off in 18 months and I'll take some time off and spend it with the kids."

Reflecting on the Lingfield race, he added: "That's racing. My lad didn't go much quicker up the straight and Frankie's mount [Polling Day] really stopped and it turns out he is lame now, and that's why he stopped. At one point I was going to be a two or three length second and the next minute I was on top of him."

A 'lame' excuse if you ask me.

Reflecting on the Lingfield race, he added: "That's racing. My lad didn't go much quicker up the straight and Frankie's mount [Polling Day] really stopped and it turns out he is lame now, and that's why he stopped. At one point I was going to be a two or three length second and the next minute I was on top of him.

--------------

Pull the focking other one because this one doesn't have any bells on,it wasn't off a yard and don't try to teach your Granny how to suck eggs,an absolute insult to the collective intelligence of anyone who's been around for a few years.

Certainly explains why frankies mount stopped quickly. Fair comments by havlin

Certainly explains why frankies mount stopped quickly. Fair comments by havlin

------------

But it doesn't explain why he sat like a wet lettuce on the runner up in the straight,a dead Charlton Heston strapped to his horse in the movie "El Cid" was more animated.

At one point I was going to be a two or three length second and the next minute I was on top of him

Just a very honest opinion from Rab...you can’t ask for a better assessment tbh. Nice of him to be so open and clarify the situation, fingers crossed the goldolphin horse comes back, nice type

Stumbled across this on YouTube last night. Apologies if it's old hat and you've all seen it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0a9zHT8oCU

Imagine the trainer is quite happy to pick up the tab for a Havlin family holiday in return for him taking the rap. Would expect Gosden to ensure Rab has some early winners upon his return to the saddle.

Havlin is in a very lucky position, bang average jockey riding for for top stable and then to claim the winner is lame.

Double his ban imho.

"That's racing. My lad didn't go much quicker up the straight and Frankie's mount [Polling Day] really stopped and it turns out he is lame now, and that's why he stopped. At one point I was going to be a two or three length second and the next minute I was on top of him."

Ok but then why no appeal? Maybe PJA told him you are banged to rights, don't bother.

harry if one or two light taps make the difference between victory and defeat yes.

I stand to be corrected here, but I'm sure I've read somewhere before that when they appeal, they're supposed to present "new evidence" to the appeal panel that hadn't been available to the stewards on the day.

When Havlin succeeded last year in overturning the 10 day ban he got at Yarmouth, it appears the "new evidence" was to show the incident in slow motion and claim he didn't have time to respond to prevent the interference.

Maybe he's had to accept this time that he doesn't have any "new evidence" that may overturn the ban and just take it on the chin.

life Lucky he is a very unlucky jockey for this to keep happening

Wonder what the Rothchilds thought of it ?

Havlin was at his cutest in the race just before the straight when he did a faux motion to angle out before just sitting there and letting the winner go clear, that was where the race was handed over.

It doesn't matter whether the winner was lame or not, that is that horse's issue and nothing to do with with Havlin's business, the point here is whether Havlin tried hard enough to win the race and he clearly did not.

Havlin is basically bemoaning that the horse was lame which in turn showed up his lack of effort more than it otherwise would have.

in general GOSDEN gets very easy ride from reporters in yesterdays lydia interview alone he said
no whips 1st time out,so are they all considered no triers from now on,
then said whips are nothing now compared to past ,so why doesnt he want them used ?
we,ll all be looking at gosdens 1st time out rides now to see if any are whipped,think what he,s really saying is the non jiggers will/ should never be put in a position where the whip needs to be used
then goes on to say rather than cocaine been a scourge on society for jocks its a low calorie way of getting off their heads unlike alcohol,as compared to chappers newmarkets a drug filled pish hole with half of racing hooked on coke or words to that effect
dettori,havlin,la fayette seems been a coke head is not only condoned at gosdens but obligatory to get a job

Grounds of appeal

The grounds of appeal available to a person shall be that:

the reasons given by the decision maker are insufficient to support the decision reached;

there was insufficient material on which a reasonable decision maker could have made the decision in question;

the decision maker failed to hold a fair hearing;

the decision maker misconstrued, failed to apply or wrongly applied the relevant Rules;

the award, order or other sanction is so disproportionate that no reasonable decision maker could have decided upon it; and / or

there is evidence available for the appeal which, had it been available at the original hearing, would have caused the decision maker to reach a materially different decision.

The same grounds of appeal are available to the BHA.

just to prove gosden gets an easy ride in ionterviews you hardly had to go back in to the archieves to find a gosden 1st time out been shown the whip  CHIASMA yesterday was whipped

Thank you, Mr Combustible.

So as long as we're dealing with competent stewards, this would usually be the one they'd go for on appeal:

there is evidence available for the appeal which, had it been available at the original hearing, would have caused the decision maker to reach a materially different decision.


and I think we've seen this in a few Irish enquiries, where the vet employed by the punished party, finds something 'wrong' with the horse once back home at the stables.

Whether the winner was lame is beside the point, in fact it worsens Havlin's case..

OK Rab, there was a horse in front running on 3 legs so don't you think with a little more effort you might have won the race?

The obvious question to ask Gosden is  'what were the riding instructions' .I suspect Havlin has been hung out to dry as there's no appetite whatsoever for suggesting Gosden was merely running the horse for racecourse experience. Frankly it stinks and Gosden's image has certainly been tarnished.

dettori hit glen savage 1st time out last sunday at newbury at least 6 times,so looks like havlins mount is the only gosden 1st time outer this week not to feel the wrath of the banjo[cant spell shelaylee ]

Gosden/Dettori untouchable.

100% guilty. It's crystal clear!

Reflecting on the Lingfield race, he added: "That's racing. My lad didn't go much quicker up the straight

That's the point Rab, the thing is, if you made more effort your lad would have gone quicker and he'd have only needed to go a smidgen quicker to have got there.

I'm surprised Havlin even had the audacity to suggest an appeal. Gosden would have snuffed that idea out pronto since an appeal could not fail to highlight dubious riding instructions.

Go collect 1\50 3rd

bit more animated there