Bet563 restrict account after customer placed 'losing' bet. sinking to new depths...

Following a review of your account by our Trading team, we regret to inform you that whilst our online service remains available to you, betting restrictions will be applied on any future bets placed and the Cash Out feature is no longer available to you.





Mickey Mouse outfit

What aren't you telling us?

Unless the Bet365 team is restricting accounts completely at random, your mate must have done something to raise a warning flag.

My guess would be OP's mate placed the same lucky 31 as a number of other punters, in what looked like an organised coup.

Whether OP's mate was part of that organisation or just accidentally stumbled on the same dogs is another matter. It does seem bookmakers have become far too jumpy since the huge boosts to their income from numpties doing their brains on casino games, and consequently are banning lots of ordinary social punters. But I do not think it has yet become totally random.

Yep...every day Bet3P offer top price on nearly every horse with best place terms because they do not take any serious bets. They make so much money from their introducing network of mug punters and online casino garbage that if you show any sign of having any remote knowledge your account is limited to peanuts or 0. Been going on for years now.

Makes me laugh all the new software engineers on LinkedIn who praise Bet3P as such a great company, little do they know!

Nothing new. A few years ago I opened an account with them and had 3 x £50 losing bets on 3 races all on Channel 4. They didn't even give me the opportunity of winning my money back.
Licensed thieves, not the only ones mind. No wonder horse racing in this country is going down the tubes.

That’s the way it is now.An 8/1 greyhound winner(especially if it’s the first one in a multiple) would start alarm bells ringing.

it certainly would if that was the first bet placed on the account or stakes were higher than normal

Tis strange. I joined Bet365 years ago, restricted myself from all the gaming products to just concentrate on the sports betting. I've always done well on Bet365 pulling in several large L15's (3.4k, 1.6k several ~1k) and never had a problem with placing bets. I once got a pop-up notice advising certain restrictions maybe applied to the account, but nothing ever came of it.

I'm not sure how I am doing overall, but checking back to 2017 I have withdrawn more money than I deposited to the tune of over 2k.

It must be due to a specific set of circumstances or maybe betting on something they have intelligence about.

I've had one bet referred to traders otherwise no restrictions. I'm -300. If i hit a big multiple they might restrict me but I'll just continue using it until they shut me down.

They're hands down the best bookie.

Nothing new TBH , I opened an account with them last year, deposited near to £2k in ten days, little returns were just punted back - nowt withdrawn from the account, no '' dodgy EW '' or anything - mostly footy perms on the weekend matches, then had £300 an 11/10 shot on the horses that started 8/11 ( it LOST ) and I basically had the account shut down .......... not even a chance to get my money back. I reckon they are petrified of the GC , affordability checks etc. A lot of business will go underground if these checks are made compulsory. The industry is a shambles at present !

Mar 23, 2021 -- 6:39PM, KeMoH wrote:

Following a review of your account by our Trading team, we regret to inform you that whilst our online service remains available to you, betting restrictions will be applied on any future bets placed and the Cash Out feature is no longer available to you.Mickey Mouse outfit

That is the bog standard email that most punters will receive withing a week or so of opening an account. They are only after long standing losing £10 mug punters

2k over 10 days might have got you flagged up...

I deposit only my stake (20-50q) when I bet and always withdraw.

Mar 24, 2021 -- 4:49AM, punts wrote:

2k over 10 days might have got you flagged up...I deposit only my stake (20-50q) when I bet and always withdraw.

Always withdrawing gets accounts restricted quicker as the withdrawn amounts are highlighted on their system, keep withdrawals to a minimum if you want any longevity of an account.

however you try to beat their systems you wont

Didn't know that unforgiven. Shame really as they do have one of the best platforms.

What are the alternatives ?

The Unforgiven Joined: 06 Sep 01


Always withdrawing gets accounts restricted quicker as the withdrawn amounts are highlighted on their system, keep withdrawals to a minimum if you want any longevity of an account.


Last account has lasted three years & though withdrawn some money most of what I am winning I have left in the account so you are correct imo in your assumption.

There may be a clue at the start of the thread. As well as undefined restrictions, the only concrete measure is withdrawal of the cash-out facility. This suggests Bet365's computer has identified -- rightly or wrongly -- OP's mate as someone likely to exploit cash-outs to land coups.

Rightly or wrongly.

They now seem worse than ever.

Things do seem to have changed a bit with this outfit. Have been the best around for a long time now, but more and more falling into line with the rubbish. Shame.

punts wrote:

I've had one bet referred to traders otherwise no restrictions. I'm -300. If i hit a big multiple they might restrict me but I'll just continue using it until they shut me down.

They're hands down the best bookie.
                          -----------------------------------

If they are the best, what does it say about the others?

I follow a bookie on twitter who take only Bitcoin.

And they're abroad i think...

Goes to show you Unforgiven is right. If they continue with restrictions and affordability checks then business will just go elsewhere...

had £300 an 11/10 shot on the horses that started 8/11

yup, that would do it alright ..

I would ask, how many people are going to open a new account with a major internet bookmaker, who has been trading for over 20 year,and stake £310 on their first bet?

I would think it strange that this is a new punter.

My view is that a punter, betting to these levels, has been either a) severely restricted by all firms (including 365 in the past) or b) is betting on behalf of someone else.

The alarm bells would have been raised as soon as the £310 stake was submitted.

TBH, I don't think 365 are guilty of anything here and it is the punters problem for placing a ludicrously large bet as their opening play.

I'm no big punter eg max £20 on a fancy occasionally, but usually antepost. The only difference I've noticed recently is their cashout. They no longer offer positive cashout when the rice has contracted eg 12/1 into 8/1 antepost unlike in the past.

Still the best around despite extremely limited on promotion or free bets.

I’ve never been able to quite get my head around B356. Despite exercising what I consider to be a consistent and reasonable level of caution across the board, some accounts have been toast in a handful of bets whilst others have lasted several years and been in considerable profit. Most notably, for example, my last account which was showing a profit of just shy of 14k over the previous 12 months before they pulled the plug toward the end of last year. A good 80% of my bets are purposefully muggy looking junk though and I never stake more than £50 on anything so I assume that has a lot to do with it. Maybe.

I don't know how true but I remember reading somewhere that apparently they see Horse Racing as a break even at best (loss leader) type enterprise. That would appear to make sense given the prices and concessions offered.

Think 365 are head and shoulders the best of an admittedly bad bunch,I lost my account 4 years ago through my own stupidity and still regret it.

My bet365 account is -1000 by my estimate and yet they limited me to peanuts several years ago.

I used to do football live betting mostly.

A year ago I asked them to raise my limits and they refused. Total clowns.

asked them to raise the limit on my account, refused.

the hamster, the budgie, the gerbil and the cats accounts all still going strong.  goldfish took being limited to buttons very badly.  rip.

To those with multiple 356 accounts , do you log in using the same router / IP address ?

same router / IP address but change T-shirts between log-in's ...

The Bet563 account was a few months old when restrictions were placed on the account. This was by no means the first bet placed. The first greyhound won at 8/1 and the Cash Out on offer was just over the 1k mark. Few minutes later customer receives email from traders (see earlier post) saying account was restricted and Cash Out no longer available. Bet would have returned 20k if all dogs had of won, but the restriction was placed minutes after the first greyhound won. joke outfit

Over £1k cashout after first 8/1 winner on a £10 L31. Does that sound right.....unless the the other selections were all gambled on and much shorter by then ?

https://twitter.com/Room1_01/status/1374869816889143298/photo/1

take a look if you dont believe me ^

cash out suspended and restrictions applied moments after this screenshot was taken

NEW ACCOUNT  First bet  a tenner 31 on Dogs and the 1st one wins at 8s  , fook me the claxons must have been deafening

What price Did the Winner return ?

You would not get that bet on in a shop

denise earns £884,931 a day. 

If all of your dogs had won it would've taken her 37 minutes to recoup your winnings.

Dont matter Hulk  , the fastest way to Close any account with them is Betting Greyhounds ,that BET was a Closer 1st bet , What price did they all return Kemoh ?

fook me the claxons must have been deafening

indeed the whole fkng building must've come to a standstill when that 2nd race was running ..

These firm will not lay a bet Mate LADBROKES CLOSED an Account £40  Ante post loser ,Absolute scum A/C was a couple of hundred ahead playing casts Multis and AP . Actually could have had more on the AP but split it with another firm,to avoid problems if it won .

around the same price casemoney, the last one (trap 2) drifted to 2/1. got best odds on the bet also.

in retrospect the cash out of 1.3k was very generous, barely had time to fart let alone take it

They wont lay a bet Kemoh spec on Dogs ,Had a few accounts with them none lasted long , But the Ladbrokes one takes some beating

should have done a 10p lucky 31 instead!!

What I would like to ask has any fooker ever Won a penny using their Free bets , Their are a few of us , we have come to the conclusion over many years ,that it CANNOT BE DONE

casemoney, i went into my local ladcrooks a couple years ago (as a monitored customer).. wanted £100 on a horse that was around the 5/2 mark..tried to place the bet over the counter. they rung the bet through and said I can have a bespoke price of 2/1. When I said i would take SP they refused... it was 2/1 for me take it or leave it

Joke mate the lot of it

true story!!!!!

when a bookmaker wont even lay a horse at SP you know its time to give the game up

Looking at the betting slip at the link above -- from last SEPTEMBER btw...

So OP's mate placed a £10 Lucky 31 on the dogs. The first dog went in at 8/1. Prices taken on the second and third legs were 100/30 (vs SP of 15/8) and 11/8 (vs SP of 4/6). (I can't see the prices on the other legs.) Bet365 offered a cash-out of £1,293.21 and soon after withdrew the cash-out facility.

Presumably then, someone was (systematically?) exploiting over-generous cash-out offers where subsequent legs have shortened up, and either OP's mate is part of this plot or was unfortunate to get caught up in the fall-out.

Think your looking to much info that.

It’s just simply when you are beating SP X% of times by a certain amount.

Win or lose its goodbye

I know numerous people who have been heavily restricted by 365 .. all losing accounts but beat the price most times . and thats not allowed.. friend of mine asked for £10 at 10/1 was offered £1 and so on .. lots of people e-mailed Denise Coates personally but she will not reply to anyone ., I wonder why she thinks she can treat her clients with total contempt .

@matso -- I'd be surprised if those emails get anywhere near Denise Coates.

The 1st bet I had with them was an A/P bet of £200 win Ghaiyyath @ 5/1 for the Eclipse, which they laid after referring the bet to traders. Since then amongst my winning bets, I was laid 15/8 Snowfall to £60 (returned 8/13), Great White Shark at 15/2 to £50 EW (returned 9/2) and Zakouski at 7/4 to £200 win (returned 10/11). I have had my share of losers as well, some laid at good prices, all without a mention of closing my account. I have always withdrawn winnings immediately and am £600 in front from the beginning. I reckon that knocks most of the theories, of why they close accounts, into the park!

I forgot to add that imo they're a good bookmaker to deal with!

I didn’t say you were lying Kehoh...I said the cashout must have been influenced if the other 3 dogs were gambled on.

So OP's mate placed a £10 Lucky 31 on the dogs. The first dog went in at 8/1. Prices taken on the second and third legs were 100/30 (vs SP of 15/8) and 11/8 (vs SP of 4/6). (I can't see the prices on the other legs.) Bet365 offered a cash-out of £1,293.21 and soon after withdrew the cash-out facility.

Are you sure this bet wasn’t part of a tipsters L31 ? That would solve it very quickly.

just logged in and they have given me a free tenner bet in my mug/multiple account so looks like I'm still in their good books..

That story about Ladcrooks not accepting a bet at SP proves that there is still value at SP if you know where to look. Obviously even more value at BSP.

I just don't get that if they're so afraid of a shroodie backing the fav, why the hell don't they just lower the odds.

"I wonder why she thinks she can treat her clients with total contempt ."

Obviously, because she makes £884,931 a day.

driver2 - ...I reckon that knocks most of the theories, of why they close accounts, into the park!

My own experience with Bet365 is not dissimilar to yours:
I restricted myself from all the gaming products to just concentrate on the sports betting on day one.
I vary bets size significantly and my biggest bets are often with favourable prices (ITV races) on Bet365.
I'm not sure how I have done overall, but since 2017 over 2k up.
I've had two disputes with them and both times the customer service has been excellent allowing amicable resolution.
I often beat SP. Must be hundreds of times by now.

I wonder what certain customers do that trigger negative actions from Bet365?

I was closed down by VCBet & SportingOdds and currently restricted by WHill (size), Boyle (size), Betfred (bonuses) & Betbright (bonuses).

>I wonder what certain customers do that trigger negative actions from Bet365?

People staking hundreds of pounds are going to get flagged. Very few people are at this level.  If you're in the 20-40 range I think you're ok unless you go on some insane winning run. 

Just keep going until they shut you down, that's my plan...

This shows you how clueless the B365 support staff are:-

From: support-eng@customerservices365.com [mailto:support-eng@customerservices365.com]
Sent: 27 February 2020 16:34
To:
Subject: RE: RE: Closed Account



Hi ​​​​


From reviewing your account, it is currently closed with the option to re-open the account at any time.

The quickest and easiest way for you to reopen your account is in Members. I can guide you through this simple process now. Log in and go to the Services menu, click on Members, choose My Account and then select Account Reopening and follow the on-screen instructions.

Should you require any further assistance with this, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,



Ben Hu

The bet365 Team

From:
Sent: 27 Feb 2020 16:37
To: support-eng@customerservices365.com
Subject: RE: RE: Closed Account


Hi



Why would I want to reopen an account when it is restricted to £0 per bet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????



I want my account CLOSED permanently NEVER to be reopened and it should not be possible for someone to log into a GUI using my details – I don’t want to have to keep checking!!!



You may keep my connected data for the legal requirement of 7 years since initial closure and then I expect to be purged completely from your database.



Please confirm you understand fully my request?



Regards


Hi ​​​​

Thank you for your message.


I am very sorry to hear that you wish to close your bet365 account.



As a responsible gambling company, and due to the nature of your request to close your account on a permanent basis, could you please confirm whether or not you have taken this decision due to a gambling problem?



Please be aware that closing your account on a permanent basis will mean that you will not have the option available to reopen your account in the future. In addition, bet365 will do all it reasonably can to stop you from opening any new bet365 accounts.



Can you please confirm if you would like to proceed with the closure?

Thank you for your cooperation and I apologise for any inconvenience caused.


Kind regards,



Lucy P

The bet365 Team


I gave up after the last message!

A joke outfit bookmaker so bad that complainants open accounts in other names to bet with them.

Storm Alert  BV1c closed my account as well, but they told me I could still gamble in their online casino, can you believe it! My son, on the other hand had several £100 football accumulators every week, the net result being that he lost so much that he told his banks not to issue any more cards to him. During his losing period, BV1c's idea to encourage responsible gambling was to invite him to their box at Royal Ascot. Fortunately, as he knew nothing about horse racing, I marked his card with a couple of winners, which pleased me no end. Bv1c a true parasite!

bookies should be asked to send the list of hospitality invitees to gamcare.  they are the ones with the problems.

Tis strange. I joined Bet365 years ago, restricted myself from all the gaming products to just concentrate on the sports betting. I've always done well on Bet365 pulling in several large L15's (3.4k, 1.6k several ~1k) and never had a problem with placing bets. I once got a pop-up notice advising certain restrictions maybe applied to the account, but nothing ever came of it.

Same here (didn't restrict myself but have/will never play casino), 2 weeks ago i did a L15 (eve before) all drifted like a barge (8 to 33's one of them) and had 2 winners the 33 and a 14's (both trained by Nigel Hawke). I've also had supported horses win. I often do the same trainers (not always Hawke!) horses in them and never been restricted. Had a few decent wins (nowt over 5k) and in my experience if your bets show you are a recreational punter then all seems ok.
I can only speak of my experience with them.

Spot on Hulk!

If you do a £10 Lucky 31 and the first selection wins at 8/1, your bet is then worth £1,590 if all the other selections are the same price as you took, more if they have shortened.

This cash out offer of £1,293.21 is therefore not "over-generous", it is the usual pitiful amount offered by most bookmakers in these circumstances. They are worse than the Banker on "Deal or No Deal".

If anyone is wondering how I calculated the figure of £1,590, the maths are as follows:

In a £10 Lucky 31, £160 is staked on the first selection (because if it loses you are left with a £10 Lucky 15, or £150).
£160 at 8/1 produces a gross return of £1,440 (all but £90 of this is reinvested into doubles, trebles etc with the remaining selections)
There is also a £10 Lucky 15 (£150) remaining on selections 2-5 which doesn't involve the first selection
£1,440 + £150 = £1,590

As previously stated, the figure of £1,590 assumes that selections 2-5 are still the same prices that were originally taken. If they have all shortened, then the true value of the bet is much higher than £1,590 and the cash out offer of £1,293.21 is even more risible.

An alternative way of calculating a bet's worth is to imagine all selections that have not yet run are non-runners. In this scenario, once the first selection has won at 8/1 you have a £10 Lucky 31 with an 8/1 winner and 4 non runners. This returns £1,590.

....therefore, £1293 is a pretty fair offer imo.

If people think £1,293 is a fair offer for a bet which was, at the time, worth £1,590 and possibly considerably more (because we know at least 2 of the last 4 dogs shortened) then it's no great surprise that Denise Coates makes as much money as she does. I realise that the last 4 dogs lost, but that could not have been known after just one had run.

you have seen adverts on tv encouraging cashout so you do not need to do the maths to know that its in the bookmakers favour

I get that, but I don't think there is any harm in doing the maths to prove just how bad some of these offers are. Clearly many people don't do the maths, because if they did nobody in their right mind would cash out after one race in a Lucky 31 and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

i agree its good to get it in the open,i think the bookmakers were very clever and am sure the ad showed the cashout working in your favour as the bet would have lost

I have seen some diabolical cash out offers, but I don't think this is one of them. I don't see how the prices of the next 4 can determine the value of the bet as it stands. On the one hand, the shorter they are the more likely they are to win, but on the other hand the bookmaker's liability is less and vice versa. What you have to remember is that when you have a multiple bet, you have no right to cash out part of the way through the bet unless the bookmaker makes you an offer! You can't expect much better than the 80% offered here.

An acquaintance of mine was a big gambler and undoubtedly a big loser (he did seem to be able to afford it) and he told me a story about Bet2&6 which I believe to be true.

He had placed a £1000 to win on a golfer to win a tournament after he had a good third round. The next day the golfer pulled out of the tournament (can't remember the reason) before the start of the final round. He rang up said company and said his bet should be classed as a non-runner (he had been a betting office independent bookmaker so knew the score). The explained the rules to him but offered £500 as a goodwill gesture. They know the ones to be generous too!

But the guy took prices, so how is the bookmaker's liability less if the selections shorten? If the prices had all drifted, the cash out offer would have been much, much lower, I promise you.

I know there is no automatic right to cash out unless the bookie makes you an offer, my issue with all of this is that the offers made aren't fair imo. If you are going to do a Lucky 31 and then bottle it and cash out after one race for a fraction of the bet's true value (80% in this instance, possibly much less depending on how much the remaining selections have shortened up) you shouldn't really be doing Lucky 31's in the first place imo. Why not just do singles? £160 on the first dog, then £80, then £40, then £20, then £10 on the last one. You have the same initial stake on each dog as with a Lucky 31, the same overall outlay of £310 and you can press up your winnings after each dog as you see fit. (It probably only works if you do it on here due to stake limits, but the overall point is still valid imo). In this scenario, if you do the singles and then decide you want to take your profits after one race, you can just bank the £1,440 from the first winner (£147 more than the cash out offer) and still have £150 in total invested on the other 4 dogs (£150 more than you would have had if you had cashed out). Result: you are £297 better off (until the last 4 dogs lose, then it's just £147).

Sorry, missed the prices taken bit, but I still think it was a fair offer. How much do you think that they should have offered him?

The cash-out offer increases as the odds shorten because the dogs are then assessed as more likely to win, even though the liability is unchanged because OP's mate took the prices. The liability on that bet, at least. Bet365's overall liability to all their punters may well have increased, which is why the odds shortened.

Driver, obviously they can offer whatever amount they like, just like they can offer any price they like. The reason I got involved in this is because some people were suggesting that the cashout offer looked very high, and I simply tried to explain, with a bit of maths, that it was the usual lowball offer. I will say though, that after 1 leg of this particular lucky 31 I would not even consider cashing out for less than £1,590, because that is what the bet is worth (assuming the prices on the other 4 have stayed the same). Now obviously they aren't going to offer the true value because they are a profit making organisation, but from reading this thread it became pretty clear to me that plenty of people (I don't necessarily mean you personally) have no idea how to value a multiple bet after some of the legs have been run. Bearing that in mind, it is no wonder that bookies can offer 80% (possibly less) of a bet's true value after 1 out of 5 legs have been run and some people would actually cash out on those terms. I guess it's no different from the fact that some people would put 5 selections in a Lucky 31 and take prices that are 20-30% shorter than they could get on here. If they get a few winners the difference in payouts between the Lucky 31 at the low bookie prices and the progressive singles I referred to earlier (£160, £80, £40 etc.) at Betfair Exchange prices can be astronomical.

If people could value their multiple bets after one leg - they wouldn't put them on in the first place imo!

What is the value of an ew Lucky 15 after the first leg runs unplaced? - The answer is that level stakes multiples are pure madness! - which pretty much explains why the books print them on special pretty tickets!

I realise your question is rhetorical Management, but the answer is 7/15 of the original value, because it is now an each way patent.

It is actually possible to make money from doing Lucky 31s etc because I used to do it myself before all my accounts got shut down. The key, though, is to take good prices (i.e close to or better than on here). With BOG and 2x or 3x odds for 1 winner, plus generous bonuses for an all correct bet, the way the prices get multiplied together actually works in the punter's favour. Also, whilst they will shut you down eventually, if the only bets you place are multis it can actually take them a while to realise that you actually know what you are doing and are not a mug.

Oh, and as well as taking good prices, the other key to success is not to cash out after 1 leg for a fraction of the true value

Yeah I was being flippant undertaker - if you can go under the radar (in the shops) then BOG and triple odds for 1 winner can be turned into superb value in the right races at the right prices! - my issue would usually be that I don't have enough suitable races that I want to play (on the same day) - my wet dream would be to have just one or two selections per day - and then roll-over until another suitable race comes along!

The point stands though - if your average shop punter understood that a Yankee (11 stakes) loses 7 stakes and becomes a trixie (just 4 bets) after the first leg loses - I think they would be much less inclined to do full cover bets to equal stakes which (in broad terms) is utter madness.