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No doubt a few of you will have seen my tweet from last week, suggesting we pay for a drone rather than wait for racing to provide the faster stream, which was borne out of frustration with the whole industry.
On March 11th we again had sight of the fast stream for a race at Wincanton, I challenged RTV as to why we can see the fast stream works fine (with better quality pics) but we continue to be denied it. I have received the following reply today: -
"I understand you and the wider in play community are frustrated with these incidents, but as I have said to you before, we are working on a full-time long-term solution to this. This solution aims to mirror the latency of this incident at Wincanton and Sandown on 6th Feb (as previously reported). That solution is in testing and will be released, if successful, in the near-term future. I am not prepared to put a date on when, but it is coming. Sooner rather than later.
Fingers crossed in the next few weeks RTV get this over the line and we get the benefit of this stream.
As for the other shambles of an outfit, I have tried three times to write to their CEO Matthew Imi to ask if ATR have any plans to lower latency, but haven't had the courtesy of a reply. Next week’s HBF meeting was supposed to have Martin Cruddace of ARC in attendance but sadly he is no longer available. I have spoken with ARC recently. Using their own drone is an option that is on the table, though it certainly isn’t imminent. I have forwarded them a few videos of drone pics compared to their BLV stream showing them the current state of play if betting from legal streams.
I do think the most realistic hope is RTV get sorted and ATR follow suit eventually. Time will tell I guess but after nearly 6 years, spending countless hours lobbying the industry to create a level playing field, I’m taking a step back. The industry knows the sums of money changing hands on the black market, they know who is doing it, they know that a level playing field will drive liquidity, they know the tech is available to create the streams. It’s up to them now to put 2 and 2 together and see what they get.
On March 11th we again had sight of the fast stream for a race at Wincanton, I challenged RTV as to why we can see the fast stream works fine (with better quality pics) but we continue to be denied it. I have received the following reply today: -
"I understand you and the wider in play community are frustrated with these incidents, but as I have said to you before, we are working on a full-time long-term solution to this. This solution aims to mirror the latency of this incident at Wincanton and Sandown on 6th Feb (as previously reported). That solution is in testing and will be released, if successful, in the near-term future. I am not prepared to put a date on when, but it is coming. Sooner rather than later.
Fingers crossed in the next few weeks RTV get this over the line and we get the benefit of this stream.
As for the other shambles of an outfit, I have tried three times to write to their CEO Matthew Imi to ask if ATR have any plans to lower latency, but haven't had the courtesy of a reply. Next week’s HBF meeting was supposed to have Martin Cruddace of ARC in attendance but sadly he is no longer available. I have spoken with ARC recently. Using their own drone is an option that is on the table, though it certainly isn’t imminent. I have forwarded them a few videos of drone pics compared to their BLV stream showing them the current state of play if betting from legal streams.
I do think the most realistic hope is RTV get sorted and ATR follow suit eventually. Time will tell I guess but after nearly 6 years, spending countless hours lobbying the industry to create a level playing field, I’m taking a step back. The industry knows the sums of money changing hands on the black market, they know who is doing it, they know that a level playing field will drive liquidity, they know the tech is available to create the streams. It’s up to them now to put 2 and 2 together and see what they get.
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mebbe lobby the CIU industry as to why their fruit machines make plenty money as well 
I dont blame you for finally stepping away from it. Most of us including myself would have given up along time ago. The reponse from RTV illustrates what we all know and your just banging your head against a brick wall.
I think we all owe you a drink or two for your efforts.
Well done and shame you did not get the resolution that you deserved.
I think we all owe you a drink or two for your efforts.
Well done and shame you did not get the resolution that you deserved.
Thank you very much, for your selfless efforts. Really appreciate your persistence.
bootman will be in the robin hood in may...drinks guiness.
They ground you down booty. They beat you. You ran away. You deserted the commoners..
I'm disappointed to hear you are leaving thebootman as you are about the only one driving improvements. Okay we dont have them, yet, but through your work and correspondence we know they are possible. You said a while ago if things didnt change, which they havent, you would write about what is going on to a wider audience, do you still intend to do this?
there simply has to be an ulterior motive why the faster pics arnt implemented.
greenteethnarrabacktroutmoy • March 23, 2021 4:19 PM GMT
mebbe lobby the CIU industry as to why their fruit machines make plenty money as well
You still fail to grasp that the Gambling Act clearly states that Remote Gambling needs regulating and that the providing of a facility to bet with the sole purpose of betting has to be regulated and that the act of recording an event and then supplying it to a select few is therefore in breach of the second objective and very purpose of the Gambling Commission.
mebbe lobby the CIU industry as to why their fruit machines make plenty money as well
You still fail to grasp that the Gambling Act clearly states that Remote Gambling needs regulating and that the providing of a facility to bet with the sole purpose of betting has to be regulated and that the act of recording an event and then supplying it to a select few is therefore in breach of the second objective and very purpose of the Gambling Commission.
Thanks guys for educating me -i've been aware of the fact that some with faster computers, better wifi have a distinct advantage and then there's the lag which i think betfair includes before the bet is put up. It clearly limits my money in the market and i do a lot of bets in running working round such advantages. There are many ways of using the IR mkt - some of which don't require then fastest speeds, but its a shame if the exchanges cannot be pressured [for their own profitability] into making improvements happen fast. Keep up the good work
Stalking me on Twitter now Greeny? I followed your WarwickH account but you didn't reciprocate! No doubt you've got a dozen twitter accounts.
Prefer the Wheatsheaf to be fair.
I hope that wasn't you laying the last Wetherby winner at 180, if it was I'll have a Guinness on you, when the pubs open ta.
Prefer the Wheatsheaf to be fair.
I hope that wasn't you laying the last Wetherby winner at 180, if it was I'll have a Guinness on you, when the pubs open ta.
Fantastic work thebootman just shows how corrupt the system is when RTV admit they need to do something and ATR fail to even reply to you it’s a shame how long this easily sorted problem goes on but my feeling is racing tracks will not move with the delayed pictures until RTV either compensate them on loss of revenue which obviously they won’t or powers above finally step in which for all your hard work is never going to happen in the meantime the black market thrives and the stay at home punter pays
Thanks for your efforts and quite understand why you are stepping back.2 terrible outfits that would frustrate even the most stoic person . ATR have appeared the worst but RTV are now showing themselves to be just as bad. Being strung along is probably even worse than being ignored. Again well done for trying.
Oliver Dowden is ultimately the person to ask about all this as hes responsible for the GC's ultimate decisions as the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport.
The private sector has done little else other than fob off the general public and the questions of thebootman.
Id love to hear Dowden's opinions, but it would be like firing the shot that blows up the death star in star wars.
The private sector has done little else other than fob off the general public and the questions of thebootman.
Id love to hear Dowden's opinions, but it would be like firing the shot that blows up the death star in star wars.
no martin wernt me..but you dont need fast pics to chuck away darts at horses that are hanging and going up and down on the spot 2 out..eventually an odd one will cop.
Rider, I haven't left or given up just yet, I'm hoping something gives in the next few weeks re ARC /ATR, I'm just not going to waste hours of my day emailing people who then don't have the courtesy to reply.
Anyway there isn't many people within the industry I haven't emailed, even dropped Jonny G a line after his RTV interview last summer saying the industry needs to come together.
I'll keep whinging on twitter about it and maybe one day the penny will drop.
Dusty - Dowden is one of the few people I haven't emailed, not sure he'd have a clue what I was talking about, but I agree that through the GC more should be done about the whole situation. Maybe after the review they'll give the GC some power, then again maybe ATR will have quicker pics by then.
Anyway there isn't many people within the industry I haven't emailed, even dropped Jonny G a line after his RTV interview last summer saying the industry needs to come together.
I'll keep whinging on twitter about it and maybe one day the penny will drop.
Dusty - Dowden is one of the few people I haven't emailed, not sure he'd have a clue what I was talking about, but I agree that through the GC more should be done about the whole situation. Maybe after the review they'll give the GC some power, then again maybe ATR will have quicker pics by then.
At the current rate of progress on both sides of the equation (black market pics (dynamic) vs industry provided pics (inertia)) inrunning is slowly dying a death.
When the issue was simply the speed of pic delivery, when race reading skills could make up for slower feeds, then it was possible to remain competitive.
But when the black market is providing different superior pics with better viewing angles, as well as faster delivery, then all chance of competing has gone, and with it a huge amount of market liquidity, profit for Betfair and levy for the industry.
When the issue was simply the speed of pic delivery, when race reading skills could make up for slower feeds, then it was possible to remain competitive.
But when the black market is providing different superior pics with better viewing angles, as well as faster delivery, then all chance of competing has gone, and with it a huge amount of market liquidity, profit for Betfair and levy for the industry.
thebootman
i made a suggestion on another thread for RTV and ATR to use cameras on cables like they do in american football, formula1 etc , attached to the top of the stands which they could control from the studio .
then no need for drones.
cheers
i made a suggestion on another thread for RTV and ATR to use cameras on cables like they do in american football, formula1 etc , attached to the top of the stands which they could control from the studio .
then no need for drones.
cheers
thebootman
No, Dowden wont have a single clue Im certain of it, but thats exactly the problem and how market abuse is allowed to happen.
No, Dowden wont have a single clue Im certain of it, but thats exactly the problem and how market abuse is allowed to happen.
bootman,
e-mail or tweet the affordability checks groups, or use that threat when talking to ATR RUK et al, posing the question that they might not enjoy those groups asking awkward questions as to why they are suppressing faster feeds to the masses.
Thanks for your efforts.
e-mail or tweet the affordability checks groups, or use that threat when talking to ATR RUK et al, posing the question that they might not enjoy those groups asking awkward questions as to why they are suppressing faster feeds to the masses.
Thanks for your efforts.
Pablo - I'll pass the suggestion on next time I'm speaking with them, I agree it would be great, but from a cost perspective an American football field is 100 yards, not sure they'll want to put in 2m4 of cables for the Cesarewitch.
Dusty - Agree, he needs to give the GC some teeth to take action. My contact at the GC, is very knowledgeable about in running betting, but as things stand they are not going to do anything about it. All they ask of in running betting is for Betfair to display the delay pictures warning, the rest of the pitfalls is for us bettors to find out. Let them crack on backing a horse which has already fallen and can't possibly win! It's wrong, it needs to change but is also unlikely to do so.
Duffy - I had the opportunity to write to this group a while back, but chose not to, my fear getting in running banned completely as if they ever scratched under the surface, I don't think they would like what they find. Football in play is being targeted, not sure telling them racing in play is a cesspit would help. I did angle that line to Betfair but they didn't seem to care.
Dusty - Agree, he needs to give the GC some teeth to take action. My contact at the GC, is very knowledgeable about in running betting, but as things stand they are not going to do anything about it. All they ask of in running betting is for Betfair to display the delay pictures warning, the rest of the pitfalls is for us bettors to find out. Let them crack on backing a horse which has already fallen and can't possibly win! It's wrong, it needs to change but is also unlikely to do so.
Duffy - I had the opportunity to write to this group a while back, but chose not to, my fear getting in running banned completely as if they ever scratched under the surface, I don't think they would like what they find. Football in play is being targeted, not sure telling them racing in play is a cesspit would help. I did angle that line to Betfair but they didn't seem to care.
thebootman
Your contact at the GC is using distraction. They have the ability to revoke licenses of those who breach the Gambling Act, and the courses very much do in supplying for the purposes of taking advantage of the market an exclusive product not available even to all on the course.
If his logic held water then why wouldnt they just slap a general warning on all betting and let that act as the same cover of all evil?
The point is they are tasked to act and they have found a route out of doing so. Thats why Id ask Dowden exactly why he allows it.
Your contact at the GC is using distraction. They have the ability to revoke licenses of those who breach the Gambling Act, and the courses very much do in supplying for the purposes of taking advantage of the market an exclusive product not available even to all on the course.
If his logic held water then why wouldnt they just slap a general warning on all betting and let that act as the same cover of all evil?
The point is they are tasked to act and they have found a route out of doing so. Thats why Id ask Dowden exactly why he allows it.
thebootman, lol , i meant to say for the last 2-3 furlongs .
even just a fixed camera on the stands would help , then users could pick which camera to view
even just a fixed camera on the stands would help , then users could pick which camera to view
speed the pics up 0.3 and the glory days are backkkkk..
walofs..things have evolved man..technology won.
walofs..things have evolved man..technology won.
Think we are talking about 2 seconds plus Rico then the piss poor players who pay a premium for pictures will learn what it’s like to have match betting on a even playing field and guess what they will struggle 
"The industry knows the sums of money changing hands on the black market, they know who is doing it" 
Respect for all you've done, bootman...much appreciated here
arny thing that will get you 2 secs + is a tardis...
try ebay.
try ebay.
Mar 23, 2021 -- 9:03PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:
arny thing that will get you 2 secs + is a tardis...try ebay.
Its irrelavant, they have the quicker feed but arent giving a reason why they are not speeding up!
I'll hazard a guess at the date things will be sped up...May 17 or shortly after!!!
bflv seems to be pretty near real time, is it just drones beating it?
wowsas..then everywun in the forum will be bagging up? carnt wate.
daint be daft h...its about 5 secs behind acc to swad.
Football in play is being targeted
first I've heard about this
first I've heard about this
Just received a betfair survey for Cheltenham, theres a page where you can give your opinion how the festival could have been a better experience, - drone pictures, minimum latency with BLV etc
Mar 23, 2021 -- 9:24PM, Rico-Dangleflaps wrote:
daint be daft h...its about 5 secs behind acc to swad.
ATR far enough to be a waste of time?
Not for the fast pic boys it’s there piggy bank Swaddle would love to see them competing with us on level terms until then give up on ATR pics complete waste of time but saying that RTV now not much better just look at the rewinds last week in live play shows you how far behind even with them
its almost impossible on the droan..without it last 3f its suicidal...
Looks like definite speed up in bflv transmission today from racingTV tracks.
If this continues for next few days we could be there and a whip round for bootman in order.
If this continues for next few days we could be there and a whip round for bootman in order.
considerably quicker compared to rtv sky pics than it has been for months. I don't time it but it's very obvious to the naked eye. Hope it continues and well done thebootman
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